Modelling the C&O - the Glen Ogle module

[Argos]

14 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

Not sure what you mean by the missing part.

 

Hi Jim,

 

I've probably described it wrongly. I can't find any clear photos on the web. I've used photos from "The 4mm wagon - Part 2" which has some nice photos of the vans as reference for build.

 

the part I am referring to is the vertical protector on the brake linkage seen extending form the middle of the solebar by the vac cylinder in this drawing.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/23456/parkside-dundas-pc56-oo-gauge-lner-12-wheelbase-fish-van-kit

 

and highlighted on this close up of my model.

 

 

In all the photos I've seen the protector is actually more to the left, more in line with the middle of the left hand door.

 

It literally took seconds to make up from one of the spare brake levers so not a problem.

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Argos

[Caley Jim]

Thanks, Angus.  I see what you mean now.  I would call that a safety hoop.   I've just checked and it's not shown on the drawing I was sent.

 

Jim

[Graham R]

Hi Angus,

 

That is the safety loop provided on wagons so that if the cotter pin fell out of a pivot shaft and the brake rods were eventually shaken off the shaft, the rods did not drop to the track, potentially causing a derailment.
 

They are virtually invisible in 2mm scale and would be very flimsy if modelled accurately. If you must add them, a single strand from fine multi strand wire would probably be more appropriate than an etched part, but I will happily live without them on my models.

 

I drive through Glen Ogle a couple of times or so a month and every time I do so, I am now reminded of your project! Looking forward to seeing it advance.

 

regards

Graham

[Argos]

6 hours ago, Graham R said:

They are virtually invisible in 2mm scale and would be very flimsy if modelled accurately.

 

Hi Graham, 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one I'm afraid.

These loops are very visible and included on R-T-R moulded chassis and most etched chassis I've come across albeit impressionistic in the main.

I've no doubt these are slightly overscale, but to miss them off would leave the wagon underframe looking strangely bare.

 

I'm glad the layout brings back memories of driving through Glen Ogle, the connection with place is one of the great things about modelling an actual location.

 

Thanks

 

Angus

[65179]

2 hours ago, Argos said:

 

Hi Graham, 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one I'm afraid.

These loops are very visible and included on R-T-R moulded chassis and most etched chassis I've come across albeit impressionistic in the main.

I've no doubt these are slightly overscale, but to miss them off would leave the wagon underframe looking strangely bare.

 

They are just represented in 2D on most Association chassis. A straight bit of etch in the same plane as the brake linkage. See for example one of Chris Higgs's Parkwood replacement chassis under this 3D printed LNER van from Atso:

 

 

That method of construction gives the assembly a bit more strength and is a compromise that I'm happy with. I salute those like you who are happy to bend them up and added them separately. On a 30+ van train there are other things I want to concentrate on (certainly once I've chopped all the overwidth vans down to the right sort of width, fiddled with the roof profiles etc).

 

I've just looked and my Farish LNER vans don't seem to have any representation of these loops, although they do have the safety loops over the axles (or did before I added replacement brake shoes and wheels etc).

 

The vans are looking good and Jim's chassis looks to be a lovely bit of etching.

 

Simon

[Graham R]

Fair enough, happy to stand corrected! I had another look at the Tatlow book we used as a reference when discussing the etch and there is a photo of a van from a batch built by outside contractors (Charles Roberts) which appears not to have the loop. I agree that the loop is more substantial than I thought on the LNE-built vans which do have them. But am I correct in thinking it is on the push-rod from the brake lever on the side away from the vac cylinder? That is how I interpreted the various photos I have seen. Your model seems to show it on the central linkage from the cross-shaft to the brake yoke at the opposite end of the wagon. Maybe there was one there as well?

 

Graham

[Argos]

9 minutes ago, Graham R said:

Fair enough, happy to stand corrected! I had another look at the Tatlow book we used as a reference when discussing the etch and there is a photo of a van from a batch built by outside contractors (Charles Roberts) which appears not to have the loop. I agree that the loop is more substantial than I thought on the LNE-built vans which do have them. But am I correct in thinking it is on the push-rod from the brake lever on the side away from the vac cylinder? That is how I interpreted the various photos I have seen. Your model seems to show it on the central linkage from the cross-shaft to the brake yoke at the opposite end of the wagon. Maybe there was one there as well?

 

Graham

Hi Graham,

 

To be honest I'm not entirely certain I've got it correct.  I built it based on photos just looking at the position of the loop in relation to the side with the double Vee hangers (one side only).

This loop is on the left hand side when looking the that side, however, it would seem that some of the vans have the vac cylinder mounted on the left rather than the right (or the double Vee hanger on the opposite side).

I had a couple of goes fitting the push rod as I kept convincing myself it should be the other way round.

I am no expert on LNER vans and definitely out of my comfort zone here!

 

Thanks

 

Angus

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Argos

[Argos]

I've just rechecked the reference photos I've used and the loop is adjacent to the brake cylinder.

 

Phew! 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Argos

[Killin0-4-4T]

On 13/02/2019 at 22:52, Argos said:

All this talk of Thompson coaches got in the mood for a quick mock up.

 

The coach still needs work (a lot!): glazing needs fitting, the end window bars need to be applied, the paint touched up, the sides fixing (they are held on with blu-tak here).

The ride height is also a little high so needs reducing.

Annoyingly the print lines are re-appearing on the 3d roof suggesting that I didn't get rid of all the wax.

 

I may look at an etched replacement in the long term, still it captures the essence of what I am trying to achieve. 

 

You can hear those timber beams groaning from here.....

 

Hi Argos

did you describe how you build the coach? From different parts 

best Regards Menno 

[Argos]

Hi Menno,

 

The Thompson brake third was an Etched Pixels kit. 

The kit builds up easily, but does need some work to finesse. 

I've since knocked the coach onto the floor which caused some spontaneous de-construction. 

Rather than rebuild the kit I'm intending to start again with some etched brass sides and ends from Worsley Works.

I feel this will give a more consistent finish with other coach stock I am building.

[lmsforever]

Like the area you are modeling there is a dvd that will help you  the railways of scotland vol 5  ,by cinerail .You can find this vidio in the usual sorces hope that this will help.

[MacDuff999]

Really interesting thread Argos, despite the fact that I am a year or three late finding it. Which may be the reason I cannot access many of the photos - apart from those of Swiss Ernie, which are really nice colour shots. I lived in Scotland for nearly 10 years, although did not explore the area of the C&O route much, and by the time I got to Callander again years later, the station was long gone! You probably know, but parts of it feature in Rob Bell's 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' programme on the route. A few clips in colour - albeit a bit fuzzy - of loco and trains in operation.  A tempting potential project (although I am already working on another one). Maybe a micro layout, featuring just the branch platform at Killin Junction (the station would need about 20+ feet to do it justice in 4mm scale). I have found the Thompson 4/5-compt. brake 3rd. coach drawings in my Jenkinson and Camplings' Historic Carriage Drawings book. Useful for building a Comet kit or two/three, if Hornby or Bachmann don't produce one and/or the other. We'll see.    

[MacDuff999]

PS Don't know where in Cardiff you are 65179, as that is where I am. Coming from Manchester, I noticed you are looking at the ex Manchester Central line as a project, yes? 

[Argos]

6 hours ago, MacDuff999 said:

Really interesting thread Argos, despite the fact that I am a year or three late finding it. Which may be the reason I cannot access many of the photos - apart from those of Swiss Ernie, which are really nice colour shots. I lived in Scotland for nearly 10 years, although did not explore the area of the C&O route much, and by the time I got to Callander again years later, the station was long gone! You probably know, but parts of it feature in Rob Bell's 'Walking Britain's Lost Railways' programme on the route. A few clips in colour - albeit a bit fuzzy - of loco and trains in operation.  A tempting potential project (although I am already working on another one). Maybe a micro layout, featuring just the branch platform at Killin Junction (the station would need about 20+ feet to do it justice in 4mm scale). I have found the Thompson 4/5-compt. brake 3rd. coach drawings in my Jenkinson and Camplings' Historic Carriage Drawings book. Useful for building a Comet kit or two/three, if Hornby or Bachmann don't produce one and/or the other. We'll see.    

 

Thanks MacDuff,

 

The module still lives alongside a pile of parts to create the fiddle yards, but like any stalled model baseboard it is buried under the detritus of life that seem to naturally collect on such items...

 

The plan is the module will form part of a larger layout depicting the Callander and Oban running around the garage.

Several attempts at making the garage water tight have failed and I am currently waiting for planning permission connected with the next attempt.

 

The long term plan is for the  module to emerge and get finished, that is probably years rather than months away  given my modelling focus is elsewhere at present.

 

I did think that the Thompson compartment brakes had been produced in OO R-T-R a while back?

 

Angus

[MacDuff999]

Thanks for your prompt reply Angus. Sorry to hear things seemed to have stalled a little. I know you obtained a OS map which I think gave you some scale of things on the ground. Did you get any further detail on such things as station diagram/platform lengths for instance, at Killin Junction? It's a but difficult to work out the scale of things, although one could always hazard a guess, in comparison with train lengths for example. Likewise building dimensions for the main platform shelter. You are right though, in saying that Thompson coaches were available RTR; I am sure it was Hornby who produced them a few years ago, along with a number of Gresley suburbans. Comet do a few kits now though in etched brass, not the D361's, but fairly similar brake third types - D340 or 360 I think. That would mean honing my etched kit-building skills!  

[Argos]

Hi Macduff,

Killin, the junction and the railway is well served with details thanks to an edition of Modellers Backtrack which has plans for all the major structures. From that it is possible to estimate the size of the platforms. I did work it out a while back. I also imported the OS map into Templot so could scale from there. 

 

I'll take a look later when I get home. 

 

Angus

[03060]

20 hours ago, Argos said:

Hi Macduff,

Killin, the junction and the railway is well served with details thanks to an edition of Modellers Backtrack which has plans for all the major structures. From that it is possible to estimate the size of the platforms. I did work it out a while back. I also imported the OS map into Templot so could scale from there. 

 

I'll take a look later when I get home. 

 

Angus

 

Hello Angus,

 

If you do get chance to look can you let me know which Modellers Backtrack has the Killin Jct info in it, please, as I think that I've missed that article and would like to try and get hold of it (although it could already be in the loft ??)

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

Edit - Aug '94 possibly according to a quick Google search. I'll see if we have it in the Leeds MRS collection tonight if I get there. Thanks anyway.

Edited April 19, 2023 by 03060

[Argos]

On 19/04/2023 at 04:20, 03060 said:

 

Hello Angus,

 

If you do get chance to look can you let me know which Modellers Backtrack has the Killin Jct info in it, please, as I think that I've missed that article and would like to try and get hold of it (although it could already be in the loft ??)

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

Edit - Aug '94 possibly according to a quick Google search. I'll see if we have it in the Leeds MRS collection tonight if I get there. Thanks anyway.

 

Hi Ian,

 

Yes, it is the August 1994 edition, the title on the front is "Killin Pugs and their territory" so not immediately apparent that it will contain building drawings. 

 

Angus

[03060]

27 minutes ago, Argos said:

 

Hi Ian,

 

Yes, it is the August 1994 edition, the title on the front is "Killin Pugs and their territory" so not immediately apparent that it will contain building drawings. 

 

Angus

 

Thanks Angus,

 

I've managed to borrow the whole of Modellers Backtrack vol.4 from the Leeds MRS clubroom so that I can photo copy the drawings which on viewing I didn't recall having seen them before, so a positive result for me last night.

 

I managed to walk roughly the full length of the Loch Tay, Killin to Killin Jct branch a couple of years ago which made for a very pleasant walk, the Killin Jct platform was still present in the undergrowth and you could still recognise large parts of the trackbed despite the forestry work that was going on at the time.

 

I look forward to continued watching of your progress with your layout when it restarts but appreciate the current situation, my own West Highland based N gauge layout keeps getting delayed either due to my own distractions or by other outside influences such as work or doing things for other people ... but maybe one day I'll have enough done to confidently start showing it to others via RM Web.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[MacDuff999]

Looks like I will be searching for an August '94 Modellers Backtrack now then. Strange how the impromptu discovery of something can bring on thoughts of a new or different project! 

 

Ian O. 

[03060]

16 hours ago, MacDuff999 said:

Looks like I will be searching for an August '94 Modellers Backtrack now then. Strange how the impromptu discovery of something can bring on thoughts of a new or different project! 

 

Ian O. 

 Hello Ian,

 

I've posted a picture of the front cover of the copy that I've borrowed (and will have to return tomorrow) just so that you know what to look out for as it didn't come up when I searched on the web last week.

 

Let me know via a PM if you can't find one and I will photocopy you the drawings and article regarding The Killin Pugs, if you want it, which I can then post onto you; I'm afraid that since Windows 10 came out I've given up using the computer and scanner !

 

Regards,

Ian.

Apologies to Angus for the slight thread drift .... I'll now return to the backbenches where I belong.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by 03060

[flubrush]

If you are interested in the Pugs,  there was a J.N.Maskelyne article way back in 1938 on the locos with drawings and details.  I remember getting involved in building an S scale model of one some years ago and we couldn't source any decent official drawings.

 

 

 

 

The cross section of the saddle tank with dimensions is especially helpful.

 

Jim.

Edited April 25, 2023 by flubrush