Inglenook NCB Inspiration sought...

[Ralf]

Hi Folks, 

 

Looking to kick start a revival of my modelling by building a simple yet entertaining NCB Style / Themed Inglenook layout to make use of my Austerities and Janus's I seem to have acquired fairly recently. Looking for some prototypical excuses / scenarios to kinda justify shuffling coal wagons with industrial locos... 

 

Any thought, pointers, etc etc much appreciated. Whilst I say it'll be a straight Inglenook I am tempted with a run round facility and perhaps a kick back loco servicing road! BUT I do want this to be simple and cheap mainly as a project to learn and practise skills on. Also space is a premium likely it'll be 3ft x 1ft or 4ft x 1ft Tim Horn baseboard plus shunting stick on the end. BUT for now mainly looking for excuses and inspiration to justify a NCB Inglenook, I shall worry about the exact plan later on!

 

Bring it on...

Ralf

[scottishlocos]

Ralf

 

I would model a small corner of a larger NCB perhaps where there is or was a shed for repairing wagons

 

Many of larger sites had large internal railway system with their own wagons so these could be shunted about along with some mainline coal wagons or hoppers

 

Try Ashington in the North East or any of the Welsh Valley pits and also the Weymes Private Railway for inspiration

 

Dave

[Alcanman]

There was what looks like a bit of an inglenook going on here when I took this pic at Bates Colliery, Blyth, Northumberland in 1968.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[black and decker boy]

Lots of inspiration on Flickr

 

Gordon Edgar has loads of albums of industrial Railways including collieries

 

Example

 

https://flickr.com/photos/63255278@N08/sets/72157660873621812

 

https://flickr.com/photos/63255278@N08/sets/72157665954155644

[Ralf]

I would model a small corner of a larger NCB perhaps where there is or was a shed for repairing wagons

 

Thanks Dave, I think I'm going to do exactly that... Walkden Yard seems to meet my needs for a Wagon Repair shop, see Flickr links. Think I'd best get the Amberley Book "Walkden Yard" ordered.... 

 

Walkden Yard, Lancashire, mining workshops 1936 by Pitheadgear, on Flickr

 

Walkden, 90 Sqdn RAF photo, 3 April 1946 by Pitheadgear, on Flickr

 

Thanks

Ralf

Edited September 26, 2018 by Ralf

[The Johnster]

For a South Wales prototype, have a look at the shed/wagon repair facilities at Big Arch, Talywaun; a very good exhibition layout of this already exists.  

[br2975]

Does it have to be a coal mine per se ?

.

Have you considered any of the following

e.g.

NCB Landsale Yard,

NCB / BR Exchange Sidings,

NCB Area Central Workshop

.

If you want the layout to 'look busy' - lose it amongst towering pit buildings, screens, dirt bunkers, engine house etc.

.

You can use such structures as 'view blocks' to conceal the entries and exits of your trackwork.

.

Don't just have the three Inglenook sidings ending in buffer stops and the headshunt disappearing offstage........believe me, it looks better if you employ scenic dodges to make the yard look bigger than it is, and by default, busier.

.

I looked around for such ideas and incorporated a few I found  into my last layout, Rosamund Street (Low Level) Sidings.

.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88144-rosamund-street-low-level-sidings/?hl=%2Brosamund+%2Bstreet

.

Brian R

[AMJ]

Wagons prior to WWII are interesting as you have all of the small coal merchants plus internal users.

 

My Inglenook I have some of the Bachmann colliery buildings to set the scene.

 

A simple random generator is handy for giving you the marshalling location.

[Ralf]

For a South Wales prototype, have a look at the shed/wagon repair facilities at Big Arch, Talywaun; a very good exhibition layout of this already exists.

 

  

Thanks for the tip off - need to investigate that one......

 

Does it have to be a coal mine per se ?

.

Have you considered any of the following

e.g.

NCB Landsale Yard,

NCB / BR Exchange Sidings,

NCB Area Central Workshop

Thanks Brian no doesn't have to actually be a mine at all. Thanks for the suggestions I'll have a good Google of them soon, for once I'm trying to find pictures of industrial settings that don't have locos in the foreground! They just do get in the way of the scene don't they lol!

 

Thanks

Ralf

[br2975]

Not many buildings to 'hem in' your railway, but plenty of  operational inspiration.

.

This photograph is taken from "Mount Bridge" which linked the two halves of Mountain Ash, and crossed the Afon Cynon which flowed behind the bushes on the right.

.

The two sidings on the right pass under the bridge to access Deep Duffryn Colliery (Aberdare Valley Central Washery in the B.R. WTT's), and the line on the left, passing over the weighbridge leads up the valley to the Abercwmboi Phurnacite plant.

.

Above the loco can be seen the (steam) engine shed to the left of which can just be seen an Andrew Barclay 0-6-0DH on the NCB main line south to (i) the diesel shed (ii) Area Central Workshop (iii) Landsale Yard (iv) Pontcynon coal stacking ground, and (v) Penrikyber Colliery loading point at Penrhiwceiber.

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To the left of the AB diesel are a fan of three sidings (Inglenook ?).

.

Loaded wagons were run out of Deep Duffryn Colliery (usually, but not always) by gravity, across the 'main line' into the three sidings.

.

From there, they would be taken, usually by a diesel, with a steam banker,  across the weighbridge to Abercwmboi.

.

More trains would come straight through the yard from Penrikyber bound for Abercwmboi.

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Coal for Landsale was also brought in by BR.

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This was the 'hub' of a very busy system where you could find up to four steam and the same number of diesels in work most days.

.

Inspiration ?

.

Brian R

[keefer]

Notice the gauntlet track over the weighbridge

[Ralf]

Not many buildings to 'hem in' your railway, but plenty of  operational inspiration.

 

Thanks for that Brian, I think I just about follow the method of working, trouble is my space is limited so single ended layout would be FAR preferable... Suspect I'm going to go down the colliery wagon works route - and just may have to shoe horn in a 'modern' diesel shed as a kickback couple of sidings that they've shoe horned into the site to let the new technology prove itself!

 

Have looked at the pile of locos I'd got lined up for this project and it runs to about 15 (2 Hattons, 2 DJ J94s, 2 Janus's, BR/Industrial 03, 05, 06, 08, 14, 17, Webb coal tank and some other bits which have slipped from my mind! So a grimey dirty wet colliery with a 'clean' concrete 2 road diesel shed appeals but of course that's space. I'm trying my best to dabble with Templot on my Mac and have gone to join the club as I've many issues struggling to get going with Templot. May resort to some Peco templates and plan things out in real life then hopefully improve and refine in Templot before actually doing any building.

 

Cheers

Ralf

[PatB]

What about the other end of the line, with the Inglenook representing the approach to a staithe (north-east), quayside (Whitehaven) or end tipper (South Wales)? The actual unloading facility might be a bit ambitious but that could be assumed to be offstage.

[black and decker boy]

You only need a single road shed, concrete slab and metal frame with wrinkly tin sheet. They were very common.

 

An old boiler as water tank.

 

I’ve done the same on Kirkmellington to match research I’ve done. Plenty of books available on industrial Railways & specific to their sheds too. Many also found on Flickr as per my earlier post if your can’t afford the books.

[doilum]

Thanks for that Brian, I think I just about follow the method of working, trouble is my space is limited so single ended layout would be FAR preferable... Suspect I'm going to go down the colliery wagon works route - and just may have to shoe horn in a 'modern' diesel shed as a kickback couple of sidings that they've shoe horned into the site to let the new technology prove itself!

 

Have looked at the pile of locos I'd got lined up for this project and it runs to about 15 (2 Hattons, 2 DJ J94s, 2 Janus's, BR/Industrial 03, 05, 06, 08, 14, 17, Webb coal tank and some other bits which have slipped from my mind! So a grimey dirty wet colliery with a 'clean' concrete 2 road diesel shed appeals but of course that's space. I'm trying my best to dabble with Templot on my Mac and have gone to join the club as I've many issues struggling to get going with Templot. May resort to some Peco templates and plan things out in real life then hopefully improve and refine in Templot before actually doing any building.

 

Cheers

Ralf

Someone will prove me wrong, but I don't recall any colliery with "clean concrete" diesel facilities. In some cases the clean concrete came after the end of internal rail working. In the case of Glasshoughton they simply poured hundreds of cubic metres over the rails and all to make a smooth surface for trucks and payloaders.

The landsale yard was common to many pits. Often located by the front gate, this lends it self to a backscene colliery. Many used hopper wagons discharging from a raised line directly into lorries. A weigh bridge could be an associated feature.

[Ralf]

Someone will prove me wrong, but I don't recall any colliery with "clean concrete" diesel facilities. In some cases the clean concrete came after the end of internal rail working.

{SNIP}

The landsale yard was common to many pits. Often located by the front gate, this lends it self to a backscene colliery. Many used hopper wagons discharging from a raised line directly into lorries. A weigh bridge could be an associated feature.

 

 

Thanks Dolium, I don't remember seeing any pictures but I'd have thought someone would have installed a new diesel facility for the new order of rail traffic... - Maybe not! I shall have to big round the Industrial Loco Shed volumes from the IRS and see what I find! 

 

Thanks for weigh bridge and Landsale Yard thoughts, guessing that'd usually be a separate weigh bridge from the usual wagon weighing one for any outgoing wagon traffic?

 

 

 

What about the other end of the line, with the Inglenook representing the approach to a staithe (north-east), quayside (Whitehaven) or end tipper (South Wales)? The actual unloading facility might be a bit ambitious but that could be assumed to be offstage.

 

Thanks Pat, you mean allow the train to vanish behind something as if it's gone to the staithe? 

 

 

You only need a single road shed, concrete slab and metal frame with wrinkly tin sheet. They were very common.

An old boiler as water tank.

I’ve done the same on Kirkmellington to match research I’ve done. Plenty of books available on industrial Railways & specific to their sheds too. Many also found on Flickr as per my earlier post if your can’t afford the books.

 

Thanks B&D Boy, but I'm trying to model probably a corner of a large complex so would need an excuse for a shed which wasn't the main one... I don't have any forthcoming but I'm sure one could be contrived?

 

Thanks all please keep the thoughts coming! 

Ralf 

[br2975]

Until the late 1960s the NCB in the Cynon Valley was a little disjointed.

.

The major consumer of coal in the Cynon Valley was the Phurnacite Plant at Abercwmboi, near Aberamman, just south of Aberdare and north of Mountain Ash. The plant, built from the late 1930s by Powell Duffryn used 'duff' (coal dust, almost unsaleable) to produce smokeless 'ovoid' fuel.

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The NCB 'Aberamman Railways' network serviced the Phurnacite Plant, from a former steam shed at Aberamman.

.

Coal to the Phurnacite Plant  came from (amongst other places)  Penrikyber Colliery, Penrhiwceiber - by BR, along the Cynon Valley, using the former Taff Vale Railway, Abercynon - Aberdare line.

.

This TVR  line also passed the Mountain Ash complex, which included Deep Duffryn washery (altho' BR referred to this as AVCW - Aberdare Valley, Central Washery), but part of the former GWR Vale of Neath line still existed from Aberdare (High Level) to Mountain Ash.

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However, BR chose to close the ex-GWR VoN line, which the NCB immediately seized upon.

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NCB trains from Mountain Ash/Deep Duffryn could now use the ex-GWR VoN line to take coal to the Phurnacite Plant.

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Then, in addition, the NCB built a loading bunker on the opposite bank of the Afon Cynon to Penrikyber Colliery, to which the bunker was linked by a conveyor.

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Some new trackwork, now saw Penrikyber Colliery also linked to the Phurnacite Plant, via Mountain Ash and the former VoN line.

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This included the building of the weighbridge shown in my previous post.

.

There was now a reduced dependence upon BR bringing coal to the Phurnacite Plant, and a consequent increase in NCB traffic, which required

(a) the import of redundant ex-GWR 7754 from the recently closed Talywain - Blaenserchan Colliery line,

(b) sending (i) "Sir Gomer" and (ii) "Llantanam Abbey" to the Walkden shops in Greater Manchester (most likely a political decision as the Walkden network was in serious decline at that time) and,

©  rejuvenating a Hudswell Clark 0-6-0ST 'No.1' formerly languishing at Lady Windsor Colliery, Ynysybwl., 

 

The NCB then closed much of  it's 'Aberamman Railways' network, including the Aberamman shed, and concentrated all its loco facilities at the 'Navvy yard' in Mount, with separate steam and diesel sheds; the latter was basically one road into the end of a former colliery building, but was for all intents and purposes a 'new facility' .

.

This made operational sense as the NCB Area Central Workshop was also at Mountain Ash, as was an important NCB wagon repair facility.

.

A weekday, circa 1973-1975, could find up to four locos in steam, and as many diesels, spread from Penrhiwceiber northwards to Abercwmboi..

.

Brian R

Edited October 2, 2018 by br2975

[doilum]

Thanks Dolium, I don't remember seeing any pictures but I'd have thought someone would have installed a new diesel facility for the new order of rail traffic... - Maybe not! I shall have to big round the Industrial Loco Shed volumes from the IRS and see what I find! 

 

Thanks for weigh bridge and Landsale Yard thoughts, guessing that'd usually be a separate weigh bridge from the usual wagon weighing one for any outgoing wagon traffic?

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Pat, you mean allow the train to vanish behind something as if it's gone to the staithe? 

 

 

 

 

Thanks B&D Boy, but I'm trying to model probably a corner of a large complex so would need an excuse for a shed which wasn't the main one... I don't have any forthcoming but I'm sure one could be contrived?

 

Thanks all please keep the thoughts coming! 

 

Ralf

 

The old lancashire boiler water tank was common to several pits in different parts of the country. Try a Google image search for "wheldale diana". A scroll down the images should provide inspiration.

[doilum]

Ditto "Ackton Hall Colliery". Take a little time to study the photo carefully. The pile of scrap in the foreground is the wonderfully restored Beatrice now based at Embsay.

Scrolling down the images gives an idea of the working conditions under which rebuilds were achieved. The wooden staging in a later image was probably for coaling. A watering point could be used by visiting locos from other parts of the internal network. A workshop or loco shed front could feed through to an off stage cassette.

[AMJ]

How about a coal concentration depot? Minimum buildings often old colliery sites.

[PatB]

 

Thanks Pat, you mean allow the train to vanish behind something as if it's gone to the staithe? 

 

 

 

Pretty much. It does mean that the layout needs to be long enough to hide the rake of wagons offstage and it also raises the issue of how to deal with making loaded wagons disappear and empties reappear. Various approaches exist, ranging from suspension of disbelief (ie ignoring the issue) to actually loading and unloading real coal, with myriad intermediate solutions. On a roundy-roundy it's easy, of course. Just have a loaded train circulating clockwise and empties going anticlockwise . End to end requires a bit more fiddling.