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macgeordie

BR / GWR Siphon G diagram O.33 in 4mm scale

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While I was working on the O.62 version of the Siphon G in the spring one of the forum members asked if I could produce an earlier version of the Siphon. Once I had looked at it properly, I decided that the diagram O.33 looked a likely candidate as the sides were the same as the O.62, just without the small sliding side vents and it used the same 9' pressed steel bogies as well. 

The only other thing was the brake gear, there were two types depending upon the date they were built and obviously the Lot numbers. Some had Churchward gear and the others had the 'Long Lever' brake the same as the O.62.

 

These vehicles were built at Swindon to the same basic design as the earlier Siphon G vans of the Great Western Railway. The main difference with the diagram O.33 vehicles compared to the earlier design was that the framing was on the inside and the planking was vertical whereas earlier vans had horizontal planking. The difference is probably because the shorter lengths of planking required would be cheaper.

 

The vans were built in 4 Lots over a period of 8 years.

 

Lot 1441, 20 vans numbered 2051 to 2070 were built in 1930 with Dean Chuchward brakes

Lot 1578, 50 vans numbered 2751 to 2800 were built in 1936/7 with Dean Chuchward brakes

Lot 1651, 15 vans numbered 2917 to 2931 were built in 1940 with long lever brake

Lot 1664, 30 vans numbered 2937 to 2994 were built in 1944/5 with long lever brake

 

This kit is designed principally to cover Lot 1578 and 1651 which were fitted with 9’ pressed steel bogies. Some vans from Lot 1651 were built with 8’6” bogies removed from reused from Articulated passenger coaches. All of the Lots were fitted with GWR style square shanked buffer with 18” heads.

 

Some of these vehicles were converted to diagram O.59 and the only obvious principle difference from the Diagram O.33 was the installation of Shell Vents on the roof of the van. Provision for this has been made in my model by providing half etched holes on the inside of the roof at the positions of the vents. Vehicles from Lot 1578 so converted were numbers 2751/3/5-6/60/62/69/73/79/80/82/84-8/94-7/2800. From Lot 1651 numbers 2926/27 and 28 were converted.  Many more of Lot 1578 and one from Lot 1651 were converted to diagram M.34 after the World War 2 but this is a much more significant conversion and is not covered by my kit.

 

I started on this project months ago, but other things just kept getting in the way even though I had managed to do one test build. The subject of this thread is the second build which I started a few days ago. 

 

I have fitted all the door hinges and handles to the body sides, this is probably the hardest part of the build, the hinges are very fiddly but they look good once fitted if you take your time and get them square.

 

post-6711-0-11336800-1537868154_thumb.jpg

 

I assembled the body components yesterday.

 

post-6711-0-06970700-1537868236_thumb.jpg

 

I also managed to get the various handles fitted to the sides and ends.

 

post-6711-0-31158700-1537868306_thumb.jpg

 

Here is a pic of the first test build between a couple of the O.62 versions. I have built this as an O.59 to check the positions of the vents.

 

post-6711-0-25172800-1537868502_thumb.jpg

 

Next job is the van chassis which I hope to start on today. I'll post a few more pics as the build progresses.

 

Ian

Edited by macgeordie
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It's 4mm scale, I meant to put that in the title but I forgot, sorry.

 

Ian

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It's a beautiful bit of modelling. Were the roof-vent fitted ones that had been used as Ward Cars during WW2?

Yes these were some of the vans which were converted for use during the war as part of an ambulance train. When they were returned to the GWR some were converted back to milk vans but the roof vents were left in place, these were the O.59's the rest which had the modifications were left more or less as they were when in the ambulance train and these were renamed as Parcels vans, they became Diagram M.34. There is quite a bit of information on this, including van numbers etc in the Jack Slinn book about the Siphons.

 

Ian

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I started work on the chassis a couple of days ago, and as always seems to happen, as soon as you build something, more information comes in which shows up an error. 

One of our Forum members, 57xx sent me a lot of photographs he had taken of the van at Didcot which is an O.33 with Dean Churchward brake gear and he had also kindly put a lot of measured dimensions on some of the photos.

 

The first thing which showed up was that the Truss bars on these earlier Dean Churchward braked vans were in a slightly different position to the later vans which have the long brake lever and also the 'V' hangers for the brake gear were too long on my model.

 

I had already fitted the Truss bars and the cross struts as can be seen in this photo:-

 

post-6711-0-58578100-1538069210_thumb.jpg

 

I removed the Truss bars and also the V hangers and decided to refit them as per the van at Didcot so the truss bars were fitted the other way up and the cross beams are the same as the ones used on the later Long lever brake versions. I shortened the V hangers by simply cutting them off then bending them over at the correct height and then soldered them back in place.

 

post-6711-0-91797900-1538069364_thumb.jpg

 

Once that was done I started adding the other underframe parts and opted for the large battery box, as per the Didcot van and I also fitted a regulator box. Having now studied these vans quite a lot there are a lot of variations among what is supposed to be a standard design. The battery boxes can be small or large, the dynamo position varies and some have the regulator box and others don't, so much for GWR standardisation !!!! it could be that some of this is down to later modifications but I can't say that with any certainty. There are members on this forum who are far more knowledgeable than me on matters GWR so I will wait for their comments.

 

post-6711-0-61056000-1538069600_thumb.jpg

 

The next job is to assemble the bogies then fit all the brake rigging etc which I will make a start on tomorrow.

 

Ian

 

 

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That looks to be coming on well, Ian. Got a few more thoughts, I'll drop you a line with them.

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There seem to be a few surviving O33s around, thought the Didcot one is probably the best-kept at the moment.

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I have redrawn a lot of the arrangement for the underside of the van so it ties up with all the information I got from 57xx, (Thanks for all the help Ric) The DC brake gear is quite complex and a bit fiddly to assemble but if you take your time it goes together O.K.

 

post-6711-0-65333700-1538319203_thumb.jpg

 

post-6711-0-33725000-1538319220_thumb.jpg

 

post-6711-0-09519600-1538319259_thumb.jpg

 

I got the main structure of the bogies soldered up so I need to fit the bearings and brake shoes next then I can glue the cosmetic side frames and bolster spring castings on. That will probably have to wait till tomorrow, I am expecting the family to land any time now, hot soldering irons and grandkids don't mix very well !!!

 

post-6711-0-35992000-1538319417_thumb.jpg

 

Ian

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I got a lot more done today, the bogies are now assembled,

 

post-6711-0-25712300-1538492798_thumb.jpg

 

The rain strips have been attached to the roof with an RSU.

 

post-6711-0-59270700-1538492858_thumb.jpg

 

post-6711-0-71990900-1538492879_thumb.jpg

 

The corridor connections have been fitted temporarily ( I need to remove them for painting) wheels fitted to the bogies and the van assembled (just for the photo).

 

post-6711-0-17529600-1538493024_thumb.jpg

 

post-6711-0-67885300-1538493047_thumb.jpg

 

This one is now ready for the paint shop. I'll get another test etch done just to make sure all the changes which were made around the DC Brake gear are correct and once that is built, if there is anybody else who wants one, let me know.  There are already a few names on the list and I will contact them when I am happy with the final build.

 

Ian

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....if there is anybody else who wants one, let me know....

I think I'm already on the list but, if not, please add me....

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Ian

 

The springs on the bogies are the wrong type, these are for passenger coaches, the type you need to have shorter (stiffer) leaf springs designed for full brakes and these vehicles.

 

Richard

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Yes you are correct, but as far as I have been able to find out, nobody produces exactly the correct version of the 9' pressed steel bogie so I have no choice. If you can tell me of a suitable alternative I will look at it. Comet do a 9' pressed steel bogie but it is a poor representation compared to the MJT one.

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Hi Ian,

I think I expressed my interest when you first muted the O.33. But if not, a complete kit for this call-sign please.

Regards,

Andy.

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Yes you are correct, but as far as I have been able to find out, nobody produces exactly the correct version of the 9' pressed steel bogie so I have no choice. If you can tell me of a suitable alternative I will look at it. Comet do a 9' pressed steel bogie but it is a poor representation compared to the MJT one.

Have you considered asking Rumney Models whether they could do a freight 9' PS bogie for you?

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Hi Ian,

I think I expressed my interest when you first muted the O.33. But if not, a complete kit for this call-sign please.

Regards,

Andy.

 

Hi Andy, you did indeed on this post. :)

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Yes you are correct, but as far as I have been able to find out, nobody produces exactly the correct version of the 9' pressed steel bogie so I have no choice. If you can tell me of a suitable alternative I will look at it. Comet do a 9' pressed steel bogie but it is a poor representation compared to the MJT one.

ABS sold them at one time under the name of Coachmaster, best of luck in getting them from him.

 

Richard

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The springs on the bogies are the wrong type, these are for passenger coaches, the type you need to have shorter (stiffer) leaf springs designed for full brakes and these vehicles.

 

Bogie choice will ultimately depend on which particular prototype you model. About a dozen of the vehicles in lot 1578 that one variation of this kit represents were outshopped with 8'6" bogies from articulated stock (like the Didcot example). For those you'd want to look to 247 for the sides and find an 8'6" bogie frame. The siphons appeared to have bogies swapped around a lot so you'll see some with 9' American bogies and others with 7' bogies.

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It's 4mm scale, I meant to put that in the title but I forgot, sorry.

 

Ian

If you want to change it go back to your first post and use full editor. Then you can amend the title.

 

Keith

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ABS sold them at one time under the name of Coachmaster, best of luck in getting them from him.....

He's very active on the LNER Forum, still posting in that relentlessly dense style. Kind of hurts the eyesight after a while.

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He's very active on the LNER Forum, still posting in that relentlessly dense style. Kind of hurts the eyesight after a while.

 

Got to be worth an ask, nothing ventured, nothing gained. We won't be any worse off is he says no.

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I've been thinking about this issue with the bogies and I think the best solution is to continue to offer the MJT frames etc with a 'full kit' even if they are slightly out for the 'as built' vans. I have been in contact with another friend who is much more knowledgeable than me on matters GWR who says he has photos of the siphons with both versions of the bogie in later BR days. This would tie in with the comment from 57xx who also notes that bogies were often changed between vans when they were taken into the works.

 

If anybody wants to fit an alternative bogie to suit their own needs, the best solution would be to take 'etches only' and fit whatever they want. I am reluctant to go spending more of my hard earned pension on this as this project was done as a favour in the first place and it is very unlikely that I will even recover the costs of producing the kit let alone make any profit from it. 

 

Ian

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That sounds sensible to me. Particularly as if alternative bogies ever materialise they could be swapped over if required. 

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I would be interested in two full kits.

Any indication of cost and how to reimburse you (cheque, paypal, bank transfer)?

 

Ken

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