Class 307

[cravensdmufan]

2 hours ago, Barclay said:

7 smoking and 3 non-smoking? That's a sign of the times. Is my memory correct in thinking that in the 80's, near to the end of their lives, they had the interior compartments ripped out and were turned into open carriages? I think it was because of the risk of people being 'trapped' in the compartments with no way out if someone dodgy got in with you. Or did I dream all that? The model is looking great by the way.

You're right about the conversions to opens.

 

The compartment walls were indeed ripped out and open type seating put in - with no luggage racks (I remember it well because I was a daily commuter Prittlewell - Liverpool Street) and there was nowhere to put your briefcase / bags,  I avoided using those coaches as much as possible! 

 

Immediately before that Class 302 and 307 coaches still with compartments had quite a wide red stripe painted below the cantrail to signify the accommodation was compartment and not open.  I seem to remember the job was done quickly as a reaction to a couple of particularly bad attacks on passengers on the Southern Regions compartment trains.

 

Of course these alterations were temporary - soon after they were refurbished properly - and quite nicely I thought.

 .

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Barclay said:

7 smoking and 3 non-smoking? That's a sign of the times. Is my memory correct in thinking that in the 80's, near to the end of their lives, they had the interior compartments ripped out and were turned into open carriages? I think it was because of the risk of people being 'trapped' in the compartments with no way out if someone dodgy got in with you. Or did I dream all that? The model is looking great by the way.

Many of the GER and LSTR sets were refurbished in the early 80s, partly due the reason stated, but also you can get more bodies in an open coach than a Victorian compartment. The refurbished units were also given gangway connectors having been non gangway before. Plus the 307 trailer cars were given new B4 bogies owing to the poor ride of the Eastleigh ones fitted when new.

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Many of the GER and LSTR sets were refurbished in the early 80s, partly due the reason stated, but also you can get more bodies in an open coach than a Victorian compartment. The refurbished units were also given gangway connectors having been non gangway before. Plus the 307 trailer cars were given new B4 bogies owing to the poor ride of the Eastleigh ones fitted when new.

Refurbished EMUs featured on Thames News - with BRB Chairman Sir Peter Parker in attendance no less!

 

[cravensdmufan]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 you can get more bodies in an open coach than a Victorian compartment.

Not really Clive. 

 

Your diagram shows 10 compartments (120 seats) in a MS.  Refurbished Class 307 MSO = 86 seats.

 

Doubtful if refurbished coaches accommodated any more standing passengers either.  I remember commuting in 302 / 307s when people would be standing in the compartments!  Trying to avoid treading on other's toes!  Non stop Billericay - Liverpool Street or Shenfield - Liverpool Street sections especially.   So compartment carriages could probably hold 150 or 160 bodies max if pushed, especially during time of disruption!

 

Those Victorians knew how to pack 'em in, and BR followed suit with their EMUs prior to refurbishment.

 

Graffiti, though unpleasant, wasn't the biggest problem. Extreme vandalism often saw the bench seats completely cut open with the horse hair (or whatever stuffing it was they used) coming out all over the place. That along with concern for safety of lone passengers made me very pleased to see the end of the compartments

 

One morning I'll never forget was entering an empty compartment of an up service at Prittlewell to find a large lump of s**t on the bench seat.  Needless to say I quickly changed compartments at Rochford.

 

The compartments were good for mass transit in their day, but the undesirable actions of the few made them very grim in the end.  

Edited June 26, 2020 by cravensdmufan
Wording/clarification

[Clive Mortimore]

50 minutes ago, cravensdmufan said:

Not really Clive. 

 

Your diagram shows 10 compartments (120 seats) in a MS.  Refurbished Class 307 MSO = 86 seats.

 

Doubtful if refurbished coaches accommodated any more standing passengers either.  I remember commuting in 302 / 307s when people would be standing in the compartments!  Trying to avoid treading on other's toes!  Non stop Billericay - Liverpool Street or Shenfield - Liverpool Street sections especially.   So compartment carriages could probably hold 150 or 160 bodies max if pushed, especially during time of disruption!

 

Those Victorians knew how to pack 'em in, and BR followed suit with their EMUs prior to refurbishment.

 

Graffiti, though unpleasant, wasn't the biggest problem. Extreme vandalism often saw the bench seats completely cut open with the horse hair (or whatever stuffing it was they used) coming out all over the place. That along with concern for safety of lone passengers made me very pleased to see the end of the compartments

 

One morning I'll never forget was entering an empty compartment of an up service at Prittlewell to find a large lump of s**t on the bench seat.  Needless to say I quickly changed compartments at Rochford.

 

The compartments were good for mass transit in their day, but the undesirable actions of the few made them very grim in the end.  

If pushed for time I would travel on non-gangwayed EMUs if a Clacton wasn't waiting (one of the advantages of living in Chelmsford) and often where they were meant to sit six per side there would be five and a briefcase forcing two passengers to stand. But that would be a last resort as many choose to stand in the two open coaches along the central gangway which did fit more in than two or three trying not to tread on the toes of the fat bloke and his briefcase taking up two seats. Plus if you were sat down you had some smelly blighter leaning over you trying to steady themselves by holding on to the luggage rack. 

[cravensdmufan]

46 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

If pushed for time I would travel on non-gangwayed EMUs if a Clacton wasn't waiting (one of the advantages of living in Chelmsford) and often where they were meant to sit six per side there would be five and a briefcase forcing two passengers to stand. But that would be a last resort as many choose to stand in the two open coaches along the central gangway which did fit more in than two or three trying not to tread on the toes of the fat bloke and his briefcase taking up two seats. Plus if you were sat down you had some smelly blighter leaning over you trying to steady themselves by holding on to the luggage rack. 

Happy days Clive, happy days!

 

In general I really miss BR - but on reflection GE commuting in the late 70s/early 80s was pretty grim.  Still, we were all younger then, and I guess we took it in our stride!  

[Bucoops]

The GER made their coaches 6 a side by chopping 5 a side coaches in half and inserting a bit in the middle. Genius!

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

The GER made their coaches 6 a side by chopping 5 a side coaches in half and inserting a bit in the middle. Genius!

They didn't chop the fat bloke with the briefcase taking up two seats in half.

[andyman7]

8 hours ago, cravensdmufan said:

Immediately before that Class 302 and 307 coaches still with compartments had quite a wide red stripe painted below the cantrail to signify the accommodation was compartment and not open.  I seem to remember the job was done quickly as a reaction to a couple of particularly bad attacks on passengers on the Southern Regions compartment trains.

It was a murder - horrific and it led to an intensive programme to withdraw or modify non corridor compartment stock, with those in service highlighted by the red line. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Deborah_Linsley

[Bucoops]

40 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

They didn't chop the fat bloke with the briefcase taking up two seats in half.

The cleaners would have gone on strike.

[Dagworth]

32 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

It was a murder - horrific and it led to an intensive programme to withdraw or modify non corridor compartment stock, with those in service highlighted by the red line. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Deborah_Linsley

Red line stock was only meant to be used in peak hours, I don't know enough about the formations of GE stock (hangs head in shame) but the southern EPBs were - i believe - reformed to put the compartment vehicles into a reduced number of units.

 

Andi

[Huw Griffiths]

20 hours ago, andyman7 said:

It was a murder - horrific and it led to an intensive programme to withdraw or modify non corridor compartment stock, with those in service highlighted by the red line. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Deborah_Linsley

 

I don't think this was the first time there was a murder in a non corridor compartment carriage.

 

Apparently, in the 1860s, some guy was murdered in a non corridor compartment. A German tailor by the name of Müller was convicted and hanged for the crime - leading to small windows being cut into compartment walls. These windows became known as "Müller's lights".

[andyman7]

No, indeed not. But It was the one that led to the demise of non-corridor compartments.

[gazzaday]

The unit has now be fully detailed and weathered and the pantograph fitted to the Driver Trailer.  This project has been two years in the making (stop and start) but I am happy with the end result, which is a very unique model.  I would like to thank Replica Railways and the many contributors to this topic for their help along the way.  I am now considering adding lighting and sound and maybe who knows a class 306?

[jonny777]

Wow. That is excellent. You have captured the look of the 307s precisely. 

 

[cravensdmufan]

5 hours ago, gazzaday said:

The unit has now be fully detailed and weathered and the pantograph fitted to the Driver Trailer.  This project has been two years in the making (stop and start) but I am happy with the end result, which is a very unique model.  I would like to thank Replica Railways and the many contributors to this topic for their help along the way.  I am now considering adding lighting and sound and maybe who knows a class 306?

Absolutely superb.  Roll on the 306!

[Clive Mortimore]

5 hours ago, gazzaday said:

The unit has now be fully detailed and weathered and the pantograph fitted to the Driver Trailer.  This project has been two years in the making (stop and start) but I am happy with the end result, which is a very unique model.  I would like to thank Replica Railways and the many contributors to this topic for their help along the way.  I am now considering adding lighting and sound and maybe who knows a class 306?

 Are you for finishing this poor soul.

 

[cheesysmith]

How long has it been like that clive? Not even a quick spray of undercoat.

[gazzaday]

13 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 Are you for finishing this poor soul.

 

The thought of all those handles and individual glazing brings me out in sweats!

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, cheesysmith said:

How long has it been like that clive? Not even a quick spray of undercoat.

Don't know?

[Chuckles S/V]

Interesting spent many years driving those.

[cravensdmufan]

39 minutes ago, Chuckles S/V said:

Interesting spent many years driving those.

We'd like to hear your experiences of driving them (and any other GE EMUs).

[Barclay]

Yes - were those 309s as fast as they felt ?

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, Barclay said:

Yes - were those 309s as fast as they felt ?

Indeed they were, especially in the early days when trains were made up of 2x4 cars plus 1x2 car.  I believe the 2 car units had the same power as a 4 car.  I remember my old dad stopwatch timing on the "red electrics" (as he called them) between Witham and Colchester and speed was well up to 100! 

 

The 307's were slow.  306's were lively both in speed and ride.  Occasionally you'd get them working Liverpool Street - Southend Vic vice a 307, or to Chelmsford and they'd certainly bomb along where they could stretch their legs!  I was sorry when the 306s finally went.

Edited August 17, 2020 by cravensdmufan

[Clive Mortimore]

22 hours ago, Barclay said:

Yes - were those 309s as fast as they felt ?

Hi Stuart

 

I use to stand next to one of the intermediate cabs on my way home from work and 100 mph was often reached between the stops at Chelmsford and Witham. Not bad for a suburban EMU.