Advance Notice - The Wishlist Poll 2018

[BMacdermott]

Hello Frond

 

Sutton Locomotive Works as per link below.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

 

https://www.railexclusive.com/products.php

[woodenhead]

Pardon my ignorance but who are SLW?

A little company doing special things https://sulzertype2.co.uk/

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I was badly trying to describe how personal preference might have some people call for replacements for modern models because the shape wasn't quite right and how difficult that might be to manage in the poll...

 Easiest way to manage this aspect in the poll is not to manage it. Simply increment the 'baseline cut off date' in step with the years.

 

It is a fair assumption that any model tooled  getting on for twenty years ago may well be in some way(s) be off the pace. Let the people have their say on these. Models which a manufacturer got 'very right' will probably attract few votes. Models that have shortcomings perhaps overlooked in the heady rush of excitement on introduction will be identified by those who have now recognised their deficiencies.

 

Here are some examples, from the early period of Chinese manufacture. 

 

Bachmann BR standard 5MT 4-6-0. Cab shape clearly adrift, BR1B and 1C tender body with extra spurious wiggle in side sheets, mechanism lacking speed and traction due to poor layout which more recent technique can fully fix.

 

Hornby Brush type 2, later TOPS 30 and 31. Incorrect rendering of cab side windows position, weak bogie construction, expensive and unnecessary doo-dads such as opening doors and spinning fan.

 

Hornby Gresley gangwayed coaches. Body shape incorrect, claimed due to manufacturing technique limitations. Recent release of the non-gangwayed indicates that current technique can now do this job right.

[Frond]

Thanks for the info, I will check them out.

[tomparryharry]

If I may 'chuck in' a few thoughts.

 

If you still have the wishlist poll, as an bi-annual event.

 

In between, have a slightly smaller poll, which is to have what you'd like to see upgraded. Some producers have models that stand the test of time. Some, sadly, are a bit 'not all there'. A bit like me, really.

 

having re-read our posts on RMweb, it seems plausible that we could have a poll every month or two, given the niche (s) involved. I can hear Mr McDermott and his team sharpening their knives, as I type... The logistics of doing this sort of thing will stretch the system to overload, and possibility of being counter-productive. One bloke I know will vote for Common Branch Junction engine shed, in 4mm, as an RTP product. Oops! Silly me!

 

Happy modelling!

 

Ian.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Ian

 

We would never 'sharpen our knives' and are always open to suggestions or comments (positive or negative).

 

We grapple - and I choose the verb specifically - with variations in what we could do and/or list. What you see 'on the voting slip' is the result of months of emails to-and-fro between the Team members.

 

The main difficulty is that ideas often seem plausible, but when you start working them through, they soon become entangled in a web of difficulty and subtlety. My recycle bin is full of stuff that I or The Team have set out thinking 'this is the best idea ever' only to fail as we delve deeper.

 

That's not to say your thoughts won't work - they will go on the Agenda and be given a full and fair hearing. The one difficulty I see immediately, though, is the 'what we think needs upgrading' scenario is subjective whereas we do our utmost to be objective - hence the year 2000 cut-off date (which is currently under review).

 

One thing is certain despite our best efforts...we will never be 'all things to all modellers'. But we keep trying!

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[tomparryharry]

Hello Ian

 

We would never 'sharpen our knives' and are always open to suggestions or comments (positive or negative).

 

We grapple - and I choose the verb specifically - with variations in what we could do and/or list. What you see 'on the voting slip' is the result of months of emails to-and-fro between the Team members.

 

The main difficulty is that ideas often seem plausible, but when you start working them through, they soon become entangled in a web of difficulty and subtlety. My recycle bin is full of stuff that I or The Team have set out thinking 'this is the best idea ever' only to fail as we delve deeper.

 

That's not to say your thoughts won't work - they will go on the Agenda and be given a full and fair hearing. The one difficulty I see immediately, though, is the 'what we think needs upgrading' scenario is subjective whereas we do our utmost to be objective - hence the year 2000 cut-off date (which is currently under review).

 

One thing is certain despite our best efforts...we will never be 'all things to all modellers'. But we keep trying!

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

Tongue in cheek from me, Mr McDermott, very tongue in cheek!

 

Many thanks,

 

Ian.

[BMacdermott]

Thanks Ian - but sometimes the best ideas come from unexpected places. No idea is rejected until we have looked at it.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[wombatofludham]

 

     Locos: Gas Turbine, Diesel & Electric

We have changed the title slightly to reflect the running order of the content. The following are new:

• D0226 & D0227
• D2200-D2341
• D2400-D2409              
• D2708-D2780              
• 15101-15106
• 15201-15203

 

     Railbuses, Railcars & DMUs

We have revised the listing order as below to give you greater clarity:

• Railbuses
• Railcars
• DMUs – Pre-TOPS classes (includes WR 8-car Blue Pullman)
• DMUs – TOPS classes (includes a DPU and some DEMUs)

The following are new:

• Railbus – Wickham
• Railcar – ACV/BUT
• Class 116/125
• Class 195/0 & 195/1
• Class 230 Vivarail

We have re-instated the Wickham even though we believe it was announced some years ago. We have re-instated Class 116/125 – previously deleted when we thought Kernow were going to produce Class 117.

 

     EMUs

We have revised the listing order as below to give you greater clarity:

• Pre-TOPS units
• Class 3xx (but 504 is with 304/305/308; 506 is with 306; 507/8 are with 313/314/315)
• Class 4xx (but for Classes 483, 485, 486 and 487 see London Underground category)
• Class 5xx (but see above for 504, 506, 507/8)
• Class 7xx

The following are new:

• 5 BEL Southern Railway Brighton Belle (c.1957-c.1964)
• Class 331/0 & 331/1
• Class 397
• Class 700/707/717
• Class 710

We have ‘split’ the previously combined LMS Watford Compartment sets and LNWR Oerlikon sets thus:

• LMS Watford Compartment EMUs
• LNWR Oerlikon EMUs

The following have had a complete re-write of the text.

• Class 357/375/377/379/387 Electrostar
• Class 376 Electrostar & 378 Capitalstar

 

 

Slightly puzzled as to why the 5-BEL is re-instated to the poll, despite being a current Hornby release, yet because Heljan released the Class 86 since 2000 no Class 86 is listed despite the Heljan model being long out of production.  Surely the non-availability of any Class 86 electric models at the moment (even the ancient Hornby model is no longer available) ought to have merited it being listed ahead of a unit which is currently widely available and with a new release under a modified livery in the catalogues?

 

Unless of course you have been tipped off that a new 86 is about to be announced...

[BMacdermott]

Hello Mark

 

As noted in my earlier posting, what we list - or don't - is often a matter of long debate within The Team. We can't lay certain hard and fast rules as we found they made life very difficult and created all sorts of anomalies. The 'effect' is worse than 'the cause'.

 

However, we do stick to the year 2000 cut-off (but see later for a caveat to that!). Heljan released its Class 86 in 2010, hence it doesn't appear. We cannot take into account stock levels etc.

 

You are right about the Brighton Belle, though. It was listed to give people the chance to vote for the only livery not yet done and - arguably - for the most popular time-frame. If you look at the listing, you will see it is specifically for c1957 to c1964. Our reasons are also given in The Guide notes.

 

It is 'under review' for the 2019 Poll. A similar item is the LMS/LNER/BR Trestle Wagon. It could possibly 'spin-off' from TMC's Plate and Double Bolster Wagons but - as they made no mention of it - we listed it separately this year. We have re-listed the Wickham Railbus despite it having been announced, we believe, some years ago. We have been in touch with Heljan and been told it was being made - but time has moved on. A lot of time.

 

Have we 'busted the 2000 rule'? In the technical sense, yes, but those who requested it to be re-listed will be happy. 

 

We have 778 items in the 2018 Poll. 80% of them were pretty easy to list. It's the other 20% that cause 80% of the debate!

 

I can assure you that The Poll Team doesn't get any 'tip-off information'.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[Legend]

Hello Mark

 

As noted in my earlier posting, what we list - or don't - is often a matter of long debate within The Team. We can't lay certain hard and fast rules as we found they made life very difficult and created all sorts of anomalies. The 'effect' is worse than 'the cause'.

 

However, we do stick to the year 2000 cut-off (but see later for a caveat to that!). Heljan released its Class 86 in 2010, hence it doesn't appear. We cannot take into account stock levels etc.

 

You are right about the Brighton Belle, though. It was listed to give people the chance to vote for the only livery not yet done and - arguably - for the most popular time-frame. If you look at the listing, you will see it is specifically for c1957 to c1964. Our reasons are also given in The Guide notes.

 

It is 'under review' for the 2019 Poll. A similar item is the LMS/LNER/BR Trestle Wagon. It could possibly 'spin-off' from TMC's Plate and Double Bolster Wagons but - as they made no mention of it - we listed it separately this year. We have re-listed the Wickham Railbus despite it having been announced, we believe, some years ago. We have been in touch with Heljan and been told it was being made - but time has moved on. A lot of time.

 

Have we 'busted the 2000 rule'? In the technical sense, yes, but those who requested it to be re-listed will be happy. 

 

We have 778 items in the 2018 Poll. 80% of them were pretty easy to list. It's the other 20% that cause 80% of the debate!

 

I can assure you that The Poll Team doesn't get any 'tip-off information'.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

 Thanks for the info Brian  and thanks also to you and your team for putting the poll together

 

I understand what you are saying  and appreciate the 2000 cut off , however, isn't it more pertinent that the 86 doesn't feature in anyone's catalogue at the moment (not Heljan or Hornby I believe) and so is not generally available .  I think there is a danger of excluding the possibly most popular request for a "modern Image" loco if you exclude it , to the extent that if its not in people will say "oh the top ranking modern image loco is a cl XX, of course the class 86 would beat it but it wasn't in the poll".  Given the feedback on this forum I do think there is a special case to include it , without opening doors to a whole pile of other models people want upgraded.  It does seem to be a special case .  Having it in the poll would prove it one way or other.

[BMacdermott]

Hello again Mark

 

When we first started running The Poll in 2012, we originally has a draft category entitled: Special Cases. 

 

We soon found that we couldn't define that precisely and dropped it!

 

There are many items that aren't currently in catalogues - if we made that a criterion, The Poll would be very much bigger. The bigger it is, the harder it is for people to find what they want. And we were tasked in 2011 by Pat Hammond to make it more relevant.

 

Rest assured, though, that your thoughts on Class 86 are already on our Agenda. 

 

Brian

[BMacdermott]

Hello again Mark

 

Sorry...just remembered a case in point.

 

Bachmann has made the S&D 7F as numbers 53806 then 53808 to 53810 in BR livery. No.53807 is missing. 

 

Reason?

 

She had a unique smokebox saddle after rebuilding with small boiler. I (personally) was involved in the R&D and production of the 7Fs and was told that they wouldn't make this loco as the tooling costs would be too high.

 

I can see a clear-cut case to list it as it 'fills a gaping hole'. But we don't, even though sister 53808 has been made with her special tender. No.53808 is a 'celebrity loco' whereas 53807 isn't. 

 

Just one example of a myriad of similar decisions. Where does one draw a line?

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[Metr0Land]

I wonder if there's a case to be made for next year's poll to include say 3D requests?  

 

With 3D printing moving from its infancy to more maturity I feel many of us are open to replacement bodies/underframes etc for sub-classes like this or where old models probably aren't going to get an upgrade but some parts of the model stand the test of time.  I'm thinking here of things like the Lima GWR Siphon where many use the body as a good starting point but the underframe is woeful.  

 

Is it worth considering a category where we could make our case for significant replacment parts like 53807 body (I'm sure there are other sub classes of loco) and some wagon underframes  where there currently isn't a 3D option available and R&D costs are likely to deter major manufacturers?

[BMacdermott]

Hello Metr0land

 

I will, of course, put this on the Agenda, but our 'purpose' was written to give us clarity that we stay on track of just listing what models voters would like to see made. We know it doesn't cover every wish, but we delete announced items and add new ones each year. (If I recall correctly, it was your goodself who gave us a highly valid suggestion some years ago which we put in action very quickly.)

 

The Poll has the potential to gather various other bits of 'modelling data' - is DCC increasing? What point motors do people use? Which magazines do you read? etc etc - but such extra work is outside our remit. We were tasked in 2012 to 'rationalise' The Poll and most seem to think we have done that to good effect.

 

If someone wants to set out a case for No.53807 (and I, personally, would support that!), it could probably be done here as an RMweb thread with the summary being sent to Bachmann.

 

Part of our hope with The Poll Results is that modelling entrepreneurs will seize on chances where they see 'gaps in the market' and that might be where 3D comes in.

 

All the best

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[BMacdermott]

I may have missed it, but I can't see and would like to ensure its inclusion: Class 45/ 46 'Peak' - final flush-fronted version with marker lights.

 

Hello again Chard

 

I said I would come back on this...

 

I can't give you a firm decision yet on whether or not this will go in to the 2019 Poll, but it is on the Agenda. Our guiding criterion is that we don't list anything that has been announced or made since 2000, and these types were made a few years ago, albeit in somewhat limited numbers.

 

However, it has caused us to look at some other items and the point about Brighton Belle being listed is a case in point.

 

Rest assured that it will get a fair hearing.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[Ian J.]

Put 53807 in a suitable un-weathered livery for 1961/2 (I'm not sure when it got late logo) and I'll buy one as long as finances allow

['CHARD]

Hello again Chard

 

I said I would come back on this...

 

I can't give you a firm decision yet on whether or not this will go in to the 2019 Poll, but it is on the Agenda. Our guiding criterion is that we don't list anything that has been announced or made since 2000, and these types were made a few years ago, albeit in somewhat limited numbers.

 

However, it has caused us to look at some other items and the point about Brighton Belle being listed is a case in point.

 

Rest assured that it will get a fair hearing.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

 

It was a retailer limited edition, rather than a main catalogue release, and as such probably demonstrated a somewhat flawed production decision in retrospect.  

 

There are many 1976 - 1988 era modellers who would contend with some justification, that this configuration of the class should be permanently resident in the catalogue. 

 

[Along with the two most common configurations of Class 47/ Brush Type 4 that have also never featured in the standard release catalogue.]

Edited October 11, 2018 by 'CHARD

[ukmodelshops]

Hi Brian,

 

Would it be possible to add a Loco for future polls that is on my wishlist - the GWR 15xx class of Pannier locos.

 

Seeing as how the 1361 class has now been done by two suppliers and that only had 5 members, the 15xx class seems ideal with double that number :-)

 

--

Regards,

Adrian Hall

----------------------------------

THE UK Model Shops Directory

----------------------------------

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk

----------------------------------

Edited October 11, 2018 by ukmodelshops

[woodenhead]

 

Rest assured, though, that your thoughts on Class 86 are already on our Agenda. 

 

 

And Heljan's apparently as they are now revisiting the model....

[Stubby47]

Thanks Ian - but sometimes the best ideas come from unexpected places. No idea is rejected until we have looked at it.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

 

Have you thought about an N-gauge poll ?

[BMacdermott]

Hello Adrian

 

I'm pleased to tell you that the 15xx has been in The Poll since we started in 2012 and you will find it waiting for your vote in the 2018 Poll when we go live on Monday. My list at post #1 is only what's new (or amended).

 

You will find it listed as: 0-6-0PT GWR Hawksworth 15xx (1500-1509). We list by wheel arrangement, smallest to largest. GWR Locos is the first category so you won't have far to look!

 

The 15xx has been in The Top 50 since 2015. (And I wish I had a penny for every time I saw one as a train-spotter of the late 50s/early 60s!)

 

Enjoy the voting!

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[Mallard60022]

Well played Mr Mc. D and Co. I love your Polls and have great fun choosing stuff to dream about. I do hope the N/2mm brigade get their act together and form a Wishlist Society as, surely, they know what they want far more than most 4mm bods? 

Many thanks for your time and effort and tolerance of some quite rude people.

Phil

[choo1choo]

Delighted to see LBSCR 4 wheel coaches are now in the list....means my bodged up K,s kits may now be replaced by something worth running!

 

Also balloon stock....marvellous.

 

Congratulations on a great and sometimes probably very frustrating job.

 

Craig.

[grahame]

. . .  we have taken the decision to not run N.

 

But all is not lost! Discussions are in hand for another group to take that on in the future using our Guide notes as a basis.

 

 

 

Very disappointing especially as it is hosted by RMweb which is a multi scale/gauge platform.

 

But more importantly, who is/are this other group?

 

G.