Jim Martin Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 These are a couple of bits of lineside equipment that I've noticed recently and have wondered what that are. All the photos were taken from inside trains, so the quality is nothing to write home about, I'm afraid. The first shot was taken at Manchester Piccadilly, although I've seen similar things at other locations. The nearer one is labelled "KP feed", while the farther is labelled either that or possibly "KR feed". The second thing(s) are at Tamworth. The tracks here are arranged Up Slow (where my train was standing at the platform), Up Fast, Down Fast, Down Slow; so the railings separate the equipment from the slow lines but are open to the fast lines. As you can see, there's one on each side of the station. Please could someone enlighten me as to what these are? Thanks Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 The second one is a telephone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3109 Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 Second ones are SPTs (signal post telephones), there has been a move to relocate them approx 10yds back from the signal in recent years to mitigate SPADs, thus they're often no longer on the post. The associated walkways tended to be done at the same time, as per your pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted September 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2018 I think the second two are Signal Post Telephones, identified by the black/white stripes. IIRC they are no longer on the signal posts themselves as a SPAD mitigation measure, but some distance in rear of the signal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike hughes Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 The first are signalling disconnection boxes, in this case track circuits Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted September 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2018 Second ones are SPTs (signal post telephones), there has been a move to relocate them approx 10yds back from the signal in recent years to mitigate SPADs, thus they're often no longer on the post. The associated walkways tended to be done at the same time, as per your pics. Correct that under resignalling schemes, or the provision of a new signal, the SPTs are not now fixed to the actual signal post but positioned anything up to 22 metres in the rear (or if you prefer on the approach side) of the applicable signal, but in some cases, due to some physical obstacle/restriction, they can be positioned a lot closer to the signal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted September 30, 2018 Author Share Posted September 30, 2018 I thought that the Tamworth ones looked like phones, but I couldn't see why you'd have a telephone in that particular spot. I'll be travelling through there again later this week, so I'll have to look at the relationship between them and the signals. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted September 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2018 .... so the railings separate the equipment from the slow lines but are open to the fast lines... The railings provide "safe" walking route for the driver to access the telephone on the Up Fast - so that the driver can't 'stray' on to the Up Slow where he/she could be hit by an approaching train on that line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted September 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2018 The phone will be a distance of up to 22 yards from the signal, which will apply in the example of the first Tamworth shot to the up main. The driver climbs down from his cab to use it, and as he climbs down on the left hand side of his train, he does not have to cross any running line, even his own, to access it. This newer system where the phone is away from the signal post (or gantry) means he can pull up alongside it without risking a SPAD and clearly see the signal aspect from his driving seat without craning his neck; much safer all round, especially with the railings to protect him from the adjacent running line, the up slow that your train was on. There will be a smooth surface in the cess for him to walk to the phone on. The phone has a single push button as a rule, as there is no need to call anyone but the signaller, who is given an indication on the panel that this signal's phone is the one being used. The driver ensures that the signaller is aware of which train is involved by using the Train Reporting Number; 'driver off 1A47 at whatever number signal, here, officer...' and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted September 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2018 "There will be a smooth surface ...." - smooth surface? I'll give you 'level', but not smooth. "The phone has a single push button as a rule ..." not any more. SPTs are all CB these days, simple "Lift (handset) to call". "... given an indication on the panel ..." Actually on the telephone concentrator - be that a 'key and lamp' type HMI, or a VDU 'touch screen'. 'driver off 1A47 at whatever number signal, here, officer...' "The train ID would be spoken phonetically, e.g. One Alpha Four Seven, and the word "officer" would definitely not be used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth 73 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 " and the word "officer" would definitely not be used. Sorry but theres no definitely about it. Many different words are used in place of signaller, a word I can not stand. Admittedly some are different due to the circumstances but thats another story. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2018 Sorry but theres no definitely about it. Many different words are used in place of signaller, a word I can not stand. Admittedly some are different due to the circumstances but thats another story. Does "Bobby" still have currency? Steeped in railway lore for sure...... Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
penyghent Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Does "Bobby" still have currency? Steeped in railway lore for sure...... Phil still used occasionally especially by older drivers, was only called bobby yesterday by an old school chappie! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 And these days the phone is used less as the driver will use the radios in the cab, especially in poor weather Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 These days the GSMR is a clever piece of kit. I’ve had the AWS go off on a loco in the shed when testing brakes. The AWS alarm was caused by a fault. However when returning to the cab I noticed that the AWS had alarmed. Next minute the bobby called me on the GSMR to make sure I was ok. One thing that’s still important is to establish who your talking to and because it’s not a fixed phone, tell them where you are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2018 Sorry but theres no definitely about it. Many different words are used in place of signaller, a word I can not stand. Admittedly some are different due to the circumstances but thats another story. Apologies, my response was just relating to my PTS training (over many years) where the use of "signaller" or "signalman" was specified when establishing who you (as the caller) was speaking to. On reflection, "definitely" was a bad choice of word on my part, perhaps "not widespread use" would have been a more appropriate choice. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 The first are signalling disconnection boxes, in this case track circuits Michael So the box contains a switch for simply switching the track circuit off? Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2018 So the box contains a switch for simply switching the track circuit off? Jim Hi Jim, Not a switch but 'links', either side of which the track cables (or other circuit requirements) are connected. These links can be "slipped" to provide a disconnection. I'll try and find a photo and/or diagram that shows the general arrangement - unless someone else beats me to it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2018 This newer system where the phone is away from the signal post (or gantry) means he can pull up alongside it without risking a SPAD and clearly see the signal aspect from his driving seat without craning his neck; the problem nowdays being the LED signal heads are so bright there is no issue seeing the aspect from the phone location but 9 times out of 10 you cant see the signal number plate! These days the GSMR is a clever piece of kit. I’ve had the AWS go off on a loco in the shed when testing brakes. The AWS alarm was caused by a fault. However when returning to the cab I noticed that the AWS had alarmed. Next minute the bobby called me on the GSMR to make sure I was ok. One thing that’s still important is to establish who your talking to and because it’s not a fixed phone, tell them where you are. class 60s are a pain for that, if you put them into engine only too quick after stopping it will drop the brake, if you dont notice and have got down to say change a set of hand points by the time you get back on board the gsm-r has sent a DSD alarm to the signaller and you can normally hear him/her over the speaker asking if you are ok, you have to pick the handset up and talk to them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2018 Hi Jim, Not a switch but 'links', either side of which the track cables (or other circuit requirements) are connected. These links can be "slipped" to provide a disconnection. I'll try and find a photo and/or diagram that shows the general arrangement - unless someone else beats me to it! Hi Jim, Attached is a diagrammatic sketch of what is inside the small track side boxes referred to earlier. In this case its use is for a Level Crossing telephone circuit but its use can be for a variety of applications. Note: the diagram in this case indicates 6 links, but other configurations are available, e.g. 4 links and the like. Typically the cables are terminated on the terminal studs, then a link is placed across two terminal studs to provide "connectivity" and secured by 2BA nuts. The shaded grey bits of the link in this diagram are metallic. The link can be "slipped" to the left (in this diagram), after loosening the nuts, to provide a disconnection - the white bit of the link in this diagram being an insulation material (plastic). I have seen the links provided in a "vertical" orientation also. Apologies for the rudimentary diagram, just realised I haven't got my portable hard-drive with me today which will have some better info. LC Tele Dis Box.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2018 "There will be a smooth surface ...." - smooth surface? I'll give you 'level', but not smooth. "The phone has a single push button as a rule ..." not any more. SPTs are all CB these days, simple "Lift (handset) to call". "... given an indication on the panel ..." Actually on the telephone concentrator - be that a 'key and lamp' type HMI, or a VDU 'touch screen'. 'driver off 1A47 at whatever number signal, here, officer...' "The train ID would be spoken phonetically, e.g. One Alpha Four Seven, and the word "officer" would definitely not be used. It's been a while since I've done it, and perhaps 'smooth' was a bit aspirational... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2018 Sorry but theres no definitely about it. Many different words are used in place of signaller, a word I can not stand. Admittedly some are different due to the circumstances but thats another story. I'm not fussed on 'signaller' either, sounds a bit military to me. 'Officer' was common usage in the 70s when I worked on the railway, and the place you were in communication with was, if it was not 'the box', known as 'the panel'. Signalmen seemed happy enough to be referred to as 'officer', a nice piece of tradition that did nobody any harm, but the modern methods, phonetic spelling for train reporting numbers and so forth, are an improvement, less likely to cause confusion. As for differences due to circumstances, no comment from me is probably best... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Thanks for all the replies to this. I often see odd bits of kit alongside the tracks when I'm out and about by rail, and I'm always wondering whether they are things that I could/should be modelling when I get down to building my layout. I think that there might be a couple of those disconnect boxes installed when the time is right! Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43110andyb Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Taken from the Unipart website- Styles of boxes have changed between manufacturers over the years but these are one of the standard designs used over the past 20ish years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3109 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I'd like to know what these are, I should really know but I don't. Guessing something to do with track circuits? (It'll probably be upside down, sorry) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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