Spanish Class 14's (D95xx's)

[Peter A Hall]

It is well known that three Class 14's, D9515, D9548 and D9549 were exported to Spain in 1982 and then spent several years in storage at Chamartin Yard, Madrid. What then became of them though is far from clear and although we have attempted to record what is known at https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesel ... s/export14 this almost certainly contains some errors and is far from complete.

The three locomotives were presumably seen and photographed on several occasions after leaving Charmartin Yard but how were they identified by those who saw them? Study of published photographs and those found on the web suggests some of the identifications cannot be correct because of detail differences unique to certain locomotives, even allowing for later modifications. These include cab profiles, exhaust stacks, headlights and associated mountings and presence of lifting brackets.

 

Edit 08/11/18 - We are though now confident we have correctly identified the locomotives in pictures we have seen.  
 

It might though be possible that someone reading this has an unpublished photograph or an observation of one or more of the locomotives. If so we would encourage them to post or make contact. If one of the locomotives was observed and not photographed but details of numbers or other identities carried was made, that information would be of great use.

From the known photographs it does appear that one of the locomotives must have had a significant cab profile change after leaving Charmatin yard. Also, the possibility of a fourth locomotive having been in Spain is not as far fetched as it might appear. Although D9534 that was exported to Belgium in 1975 is recorded in various publications as moving to Italy after overhaul nothing to substantiate this has yet emerged - no pictures or observations despite quoted locations having been visited by enthusiasts when it was supposedly there. Could D9534 actually have seen use in Spain rather than Italy?

 

Knowing the eye for detail modellers have it might be that there research has come up with something others have overlooked.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Peter A Hall

[EddieB]

PM sent. 

 

My observations only corroborate the information already documented - nothing towards the gaps in the records.

 

Here are two of the locomotives stored outside Madrid Chamartin, April 1988.  I'd be interested to establish their identities, as there were no numbers readable from the distance they were away from me.

 

 

The former D9549 at Industrias Lopez Soriano SA, Zaragoza in 2003.

 

 

[Peter A Hall]

EddieB - thanks for your PM.

 

 

The two locomotives in the April 1988 picture are almost certainly D9515 and D9549.  The reasoning for this certainty is that the other locomotive, D9548, that was with them had a distinctive flat cab profile and flat top to its exhaust as visible in this picture of it taken in 1989  https://www.flickr.com/photos/47704640@N02/8712695233/in/album-72157633399823091/   This modification goes back to its Corby days when presumably it had some repairs after an accident.

 

Edit 08/11/18 - Has been established that the cab modification was made in order that it could fit under a bridge when located at Harlaxton.

 

Confident that the locomotive at Zaragoza is D9549 by which time it carried the number P601-0-3911-003 CMZ.  Another picture of this locomotive taken from the other side can be found here  https://www.flickr.com/photos/47704640@N02/8713915632/   Other pictures and observations of this locomotive between April 1988 and 2003 would certainly be appreciated.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Peter A Hall

[Michael Edge]

Wasn't it one of these that Hunslet accidentally upended on the cranes at Jack Lane? They eventually had to lower it on to its cab and had to rebuild it.

[Peter A Hall]

In a PM Eddie B has asked if I could identify which was which in the Chamartin Yard picture.  The answer to which we are 99.9% certain of is D9515 left and D9549 right.

 

However, when I checked against other pictures on file discovered something rather fascinating and that is of great significance,

 

One way of identifying which Spaniard is which is by the headlights.  In the Eddie B Chamartin picture D9549 (right) has single small headlamps mounted on the bonnets.  In all other pictures of D9549 at Chamartin it is fitted with double round headlamps including a picture taken  on 29th January 1988, just two months before that taken by Eddie.  So it looks like that in early 1988 the type of bonnet mounted headlamp changed.

 

By 2003 the type of headlamp had again been changed to double again but mounted in a single unit.

 

Now to add to the confusion we need to throw this picture into the mix .https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidh73/15429495066/in/photolist-eh26wG-egUQKk-pvsck1   

 

Although originally looking to have a headlight fitted as to D9515 in Eddie's Chamartin picture the mounting is different.  Thus, if this is indeed D9549 this would have been at least the third of fourth headlamp arrangements it had whilst in Spain,

 

Edit - 08/11/18.  We are now as certain as we can be that this is D9549.

 

As more pictures emerge the more of an identikit for each locomotive can be built up.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Peter A Hall

[russ p]

Surprised to see its still vac only

[Mark1909]

I have seen photographs online of all three 14s being re-gauged & repainted, if I can find the links I'll post them.... If this work extended to an actual overhaul of the loco I don't know.

 

This information is on the facebook class 14 appreciation group:

9548 had a the middle raised section of the roof removed and a flat roof fitted in place due to a low bridge on the Harlaxton Quarry lines enabling locos to go under the A607 Grantham - Melton Mowbray road at Gorse Lane.

 

9549 was believed to have been the loco that "went over"  due to not having been drained of its fuel. I was told that the loco looked like another 14 had sat on top of it ! However the cab was rebuilt and the loco was sent on its way

[Michael Edge]

Leaving the fuel in while the gearbox was removed was what caused it to turn over, as I recall it remained upside down for some days while they worked out what to do with it. The photos were kept secret for many years but Don Townsley published some a year or so ago.

[Mark1909]

Here are the links to the Spanish trio on railphotoarchive.org, taken on 27.3.82 at the Hunslet workshops, unfortunately 9548 & 9549 are the wrong way round, there is another photo of 9549 on there to corroborate this.

 

It was possible to identify all three individuals externally by subtle detail differences.  This was as per their days in UK industry which did not change until a few years later in Spain where it would appear 9548 & 9549 had the same two bulb square headlights. 

 

Besides the four different headlights the locos were exported with (9515 having slightly differential headlights at each end), it is possible to compare all three photographs below looking along the sole bar of the locos and you will see 9515 & 9548 had three brackets fitted to the "long end" of the loco, 9549 did not have these fitted. 

 

http://railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoomx.php?img=0955000579000&Tag=d9515

http://railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoomx.php?img=0955000580000&Tag=d9548

http://railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoomx.php?img=0955000581000&Tag=d9549

 

 

9548 (carried the Spanish infrastructure running number P-602-03911002-CMZ  appears to have had a flat roof until, for what ever reason had the roof re-profiled to a curved roof. Both photographs give the same Spanish running number before and after the roof was altered:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/47704640@N02/8712695233/in/photolist-egUQKk

https://www.rcts.org.uk/popup.htm?img=%20D9548%20Sagrera%20Barcelona%201998&cl=diesels

 

 

I agree with Peter, no doubt in my mind the two locos photographed by EddieB are 9515 & 9549. By that date 9548 had been moved working for CMZ( Cubiertas & MZOV). photo above.

Together with the photos that have surfaced of the loco believed to be 9549 (P-601-0-3911-003-CMZ) around the north west, I wonder if this was "their patch" so to speak.

[Allegheny1600]

It would be lovely to model one of these but then you have then ever present question of gauge and scale.

If you used the Hattons model as a basis, surely you wouldn't want to represent something running on 5'3" gauge with a model running on 4'1½" track, even converting to P4 isn't "right" but it would be much better. Given that most Spanish outline modellers accept the use of standard gauge track in H0 scale though, I suppose it would do.

Any ideas, anyone?

Cheers,

John.

[EddieB]

Thank you Peter and Mark for helping with my own little corner of a wider mystery - I can now update my photo database with a degree of confidence.

 

Somewhere I have a copy of a Railway Bylines with an article (Allan Baker?) concerning the re-fitting of the locos prior to export.  It contained photos, which may have been the same as linked in Mark's post, but included (IIRC) a picture of the locomotives after arrival - near Chamartin, but not where I saw them subsequently.  Unfortunately, and without a filing system for odd copies of occasionally-bought magazines, I'm not able to say which issue it was!

 

John E. - Spanish gauge is 5'6" (as I'm sure you know), but does make the difference from OO even greater - one third more (or 5.5mm).  I can't image a model would accept wheelsets pushed out to run on 22mm track, even of the finest scale.

[ellocoloco]

Hi, 

 

I take it all three Type 14s are now ' Desguazada'?

 

Or are they still in the scrappies in Zaragosa?

[Mark1909]

¿Quién sabe?

 

It was reported that 9549 was cut up in the 2000s. I did not see any of the other two there.

I wrote to the firm enquiring about the Paxman locos as I guessed the owner had a slight interest in Railways due to the large number of steam locos present. There were a couple of NG steam locos from South America too, when i visited. I received a reply saying they had cut up the other two that I had enquired about. How factual this is I can not say. I would guess 9548 has gone and as no photos have appeared of 9515 since its days stored at Chamartin I will let you draw your own conclusions on that also. However Guy Trittons’ photo of the three lined up in 1984 showed all three had the light clusters just above the buffer beam on each corner of the locos. The last photo of 9515 in 1988 that I have seen shows to have had them removed... Hmmm why ? (Bearing in mind 48 & 49 carried them into the late 1990s/ early 2000s,

I would dearly love to be proved wrong on their demise !

[EddieB]

There were a couple of NG steam locos from South America too, when i visited. 

I can't say I was aware of anything other than Spanish ex-industrials there.  When would that have been and do you have anything more specific as to where they are supposed to have come from or their descriptions? 

 

Welcome to RMweb, by the way!

[Mark1909]

Thank you EddieB,

Had a look back on the IRS forum where I posted the sighting in January 2003. I received a reply to my post;

Oxiacero S.A. is the name of the firm next to the N232 road from
Zaragosa - The south where ex BR class 14 D9549 lies.
I arrived in the town on friday night and after a night in a
good/reasonable hotel I walked out to the site, finding it easy
enough.
The loco looks in reasonable condition and had, however approximately
20 (yes twenty) steam loco's for company all awaiting scrapping in a
variety of gauges from metre - broad gauge, the small ones with the
large cow catchers fitted ! also seen where two small diesels I
would say are 600mm. There was nobody around to enquire with apart
from a dozen or so scrap men, who advised me, after I made my
detailed observation of the paxman, to return on Monday to speak to
the manager but as I returned home late Saturday I'm now in the
process of writing to them for information regarding the other two
paxmans which I fear may bring this remarkable story to an end.
Will advise further.

"I was in Zaragoza in September, and met the owner Senor Lopez. To
say the steam locos are "awaiting scrapping" is not quite correct.
Senor Lopez is well aware of the historic/heritage value of his
collection, and is in no hurry to scrap them. After all, he's had
them for 15 years or more. Having said that, one must question the
value of the 9 Rio Tinto locos, which are of an odd gauge (so no
Spanish preservation group will want them, except Rio Tinto itself
which has better locos already). As for the Paxman, I must confess
I didn't pay it much attention, not when there were four beautiful
O&K's to look at instead!

Martin Murray"

Edited October 11, 2018 by Mark1909

[37114]

Bearing in mind how recently they were scrapped I hope some of the spares found their way back to the UK?

[Mark1909]

Bearing in mind how recently they were scrapped I hope some of the spares found their way back to the UK?

.

 

Couldn’t possibly say to be honest, I do know 9549 was for sale at 30,000 euros. Which for s loco that was no longer uk standard gauge would have surely only been suitable for spares / static exhibit. If anyone went over there for parts I don’t know. Information was and still is little known about their life in Spain.

[EddieB]

A piece from the Industrial Railway Society's Bulletin from November 1988 (462) - not sure if adds anything to what is already known:

 

"The locomotives were supplied to Cubiertos y M .Z .O .V for a ballasting contract on RENFE . It is believed that they were not used on this project and have been stored for about two years in the centre road of the new Madrid station.  Aikin Española S .A. Caidos Division Azul 16 Madrid 16 were trying to find a buyer for these locos. (This company were agents acting on behalf of the original purchaser)."

[Peter A Hall]

A few comments on the latest post from Eddie B.

 

Subsequently at least two of the locomotives, D9548 and D9549, saw further use with Cubiertos y M.Z.O.V (abbreviated to CMZ) carrying appropriate branding.  This reference suggests that all three were actually owned by CMZ when at Chamartin Yard.  This being the case, further use by CMZ suggests that Aikin Española S .A. were not able to find a buyer for at least two of the locomotives.  Perhaps the reason for no subsequent sighting of D9515 and removal of buffer beam light clusters was that it did find a buyer possibly not in Spain. 

 

We have now been given permission to use several more pictures of the locomotives when in Spain on https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/content.htm?id=diesels/export14  which has had an update today. 

[big jim]

Bearing in mind how recently they were scrapped I hope some of the spares found their way back to the UK?

I heard they were boxed up in some wagons from the strategic reserve in box tunnel and hauled away by kestrel

 

(In all seriousness I wasn’t aware of the class 14s in Spain until this thread)

[jasRMWeb]

Here are some photos of D 9549 / P 601 0 3911 003 CMZ. They were taken at Redondela, Galicia on Thursday 26th July 1990.  The locos are on a site now occupied by the AVE depot.

 

The photos are scans of slides.

[russ p]

6 hours ago, jasRMWeb said:

Here are some photos of D 9549 / P 601 0 3911 003 CMZ. They were taken at Redondela, Galicia on Thursday 26th July 1990.  The locos are on a site now occupied by the AVE depot.

 

The photos are scans of slides.

 

I didn't realise Spain used vacuum brakes