britlover Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Works photo for JF 22497/1938 Visible is the air tanks and all the couplings for the air tipping gear.... 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 I hope you succeed. I saw her at P&B in the green livery and at Foxfield last year in her current livery. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D River Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Hi - just caught up with this subject, I ran a tape measure over the former Mid-Hants based one a few years ago (22889/1939 - it had the rebuilt radiator too) and created a dimensioned sketch drawing if anyone’s interested, although it was never turned into the intended set of modelling drawings due to the lack of suitable wheels in O gauge. If anyone interested I’m happy to share once I return to the UK next week. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2019 I would certainly like to see that, I photographed the Fowler at the Mid Hants in 1984, then later found that they had scrapped it - a common fate for "preserved" diesels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, D River said: Hi - just caught up with this subject, I ran a tape measure over the former Mid-Hants based one a few years ago (22889/1939 - it had the rebuilt radiator too) and created a dimensioned sketch drawing if anyone’s interested, although it was never turned into the intended set of modelling drawings due to the lack of suitable wheels in O gauge. If anyone interested I’m happy to share once I return to the UK next week. Yes please, even if it gives Mike another variation to scratch his head over. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) I paid AMW 169 another visit yesterday to take some more photographs. I had prior to my visit obtained permission to access the cab. Can any one tell me what the hand wheel coming out of the floor is for? I assume the two levers are gears on one long lever and forward and reverse on the other long lever. I have shown a picture of the hand brake for completeness. Gordon A Edited February 14, 2019 by Gordon A 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 The only Fowler diesel I had any experience of was a 80HP model but it had a similar wheel albeit horizontal that engaged/disengaged the clutch. Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 Thanks Ray. I hadn't thought of that. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D River Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) As promised guys, please find below the notes I made of the "Mid Hants" Fowler 0-4-0DM works number 22889. These are photographs of the original which in turn are a record of the figures recorded whilst measuring at Ropley. They were to form the basis of drawings when used with photographs taken on the day and as a result they have not been checked, so typically where larger dimensions are broken down into smaller ones, it might not all add up for example. There may be other errors lurking in either measuring or transposition too, (note the cab height is missing) but other than that, fill your boots! The photos will be dug out later this week and posted to. Edited February 17, 2019 by D River added photo 3 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 14/02/2019 at 18:42, Marshall5 said: The only Fowler diesel I had any experience of was a 80HP model but it had a similar wheel albeit horizontal that engaged/disengaged the clutch. Ray. I thought the pedals on the floor would be for the clutch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 16 hours ago, Michael Edge said: I thought the pedals on the floor would be for the clutch. True, but, and I am going on memory here, they only work when you have the engine running and air 'up'. This is an 'override' so to speak. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2019 Are the floor pedals for the sanders? Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The pedals are the clutch. The wheel is to disconnect the drive for starting. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Ruston said: The pedals are the clutch. The wheel is to disconnect the drive for starting. Thanks Dave, that makes much more sense, I didn't see how you could work the clutch with a handwheel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 I slightly misunderstood Ray / Marshall5 in his earlier post in that I read it as a means of disengaging the drive from the gearbox so that the loco could be towed without causing any damage to the drive train. My thanks to D River for his measurements and diagrams. When driving Kingswood 0-4-0 Barclay No 446 there is no separate clutch operation by the driver when changing gear. You just eased the power off and changed gear, reapplying the power. The other thought is as a driver would you want to reach down that low to change gear, baring in mind that these locos would I think be single manned? Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 Is anyone aware of any of these engines in working order? Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Gordon A said: I slightly misunderstood Ray / Marshall5 in his earlier post in that I read it as a means of disengaging the drive from the gearbox so that the loco could be towed without causing any damage to the drive train. My thanks to D River for his measurements and diagrams. When driving Kingswood 0-4-0 Barclay No 446 there is no separate clutch operation by the driver when changing gear. You just eased the power off and changed gear, reapplying the power. The other thought is as a driver would you want to reach down that low to change gear, baring in mind that these locos would I think be single manned? Gordon A Not all diesel-mechanicals are the same. The Barclay you describe sounds like it has some sort of self-changing or pre-select gearbox. I know that in the older Fowlers evertything is literally mechanical, with crash gearboxes and levers actually moving the gears into mesh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 Thanks Ruston, the Barclay gear selection was manual with no preselection, with a lever either side on the central consul, but I believe air operated. As I mentioned you eased the power off and moved the gear selector across one gear, waited for a clunk and reapplied power. I accept that there may be an air operated clutch synced with the gear change mechanism. It would be nice if we could find someone who used to drive these locos that could give us a definitive answer, or if there was such a thing as a drivers manual in existence? Could be another trip to Reading next month. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I have asked owners of Fowlers and have been told that there is a switch on the wheel so that unless the wheel is wound the starter does not operate. The clutch is actually worked by air, so you obviously can't press on the pedal to disengage the engine from the gearbox if you're starting with no air in the reservoir, which should be every day as from my experience of working with shunting locos you drain down the brake reservoir when the loco is finished with for the day. I can only assume that the reason for disconnecting the gearbox from the engine is for the cold start, where having to turn those big heavy gear shafts that are covered in thick gear oil is going to put unneccessary strain on the starter motor. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 Thanks Ruston for making the enquiries. That explanation makes sense. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 19, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2019 Two sets of measurements now incorporated into the drawing, they didn't show up any significant discrepancies and did clarify a number of things. Thanks to both of you for these. The later radiator casing is a lot deeper than the original and will need the engine casing to be shortened to fit it, the "Fowler" plates are far too small to reproduce in .015" material and will need to be done in something thinner. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 All drawings done now, this is completed version of JF 22878 at Erwood. It's all very confusing with all layers switched on but everything is now there, next step to design the etches. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2019 Mike, Quite fascinating! I'd be interested to see how you get from the above drawing to the finished etches if it isn't too much work please? It appears to be a bit of a black art! Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, uax6 said: Mike, Quite fascinating! I'd be interested to see how you get from the above drawing to the finished etches if it isn't too much work please? It appears to be a bit of a black art! Andy G Lots of black but with green and red as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2019 I will be demonstrating how it's done at York and Warley this year, come along and ask. Most layers in the drawing get their own colour but red or orange are often used when I'm tracing from imported drawings and photographs. It all gets tidied up to produce the GA we include in every kit. Below is a screen shot of work on the etch so far. For the moment a colour system is used, grey is etched both sides, red from front and blue from the back. Other yellowish colours are used for white on both/front/back, these will cancel out what was originally drawn, i.e. to leave tags etc. The outline of a High Level gearbox is there to make sure it clears the frame spacers. All parts have their own box drawn round them to be etched away, this makes it possible to copy any individual part to another drawing - or indeed another loco. It also means that there is plenty of unetched material around all the parts to put numbers on. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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