Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[HillsideDepot]

Yes, but it needs to be challenged just as all parochialism and small-mindedness needs to be challenged. There's a whole world put there and two-hundred years of railway history to choose from so why stick to a few decades in a small island off Northern Europe?

 

 

Why does it need to be challenged?

 

I like my local railway, in an era just before I can remember it. To be perfectly frank, I couldn't care less about railways in other countries, I have more than enough material in my chosen specialism to last me. Be it research, books, rolling stock or layout ideas. If you like something else, that's fine by me. Just don't expect everyone to like it too.

 

Irrelevant. There are railways all over the world and many of them are fascinating. 

 

So you keep saying, and I for one am not interested. Sorry, but that's that. What I have found locally is fascinating to me. If I lived to be 300 maybe I would be looking overseas, but I only have a limited amount of time, a limited budget and a limited amount of space. I have chosen to specialise, no different to what you suggest, except my chosen speciality doesn't concur with yours. 

 

And if the above proves that I'm small minded, I'll take your insult, but I'm small minded and happy; that's better than being broad minded and miserable in my book. 

[phil-b259]

I'm not asking that GMRC caters to my interests, I'm just saying it would be better if it showcases the range of modelling out there, just as a show about gardening should acknowledge that not everyone wants a 'cottage garden' style.  And that would include everything from a 'Thomas' layout to a large scale train around the Christmas tree which so many Americans do.

 

If a 2nd series is commissioned then your wish may be granted.

 

Its worth remembering that the production company and Channel 5 were taking a gamble with the GMRC - it could have easily been a ratings disaster or even just bumped along in 'OK but not worth repeating mode' In such a circumstance then there definitely wouldn't be another series and / or the show would have been bumped to a obscure time slot to make way for something that performs better.

 

As such there will have been an element of 'playing it safe' for the initial 6 show series which may account for what has been seen so far. The fact that the ratings figures are good may make the producers more confident to try other angles in future.

[Phil Parker]

Yes, but it needs to be challenged just as all parochialism and small-mindedness needs to be challenged. There's a whole world put there and two-hundred years of railway history to choose from so why stick to a few decades in a small island off Northern Europe?

 

How would you react to someone who always has pie and chips for supper or always holidays in Blackpool? You'd want to introduce them to curry and the Lake District just to see if they might like it for a change.

 

 

 

Since for most people, this is a hobby, why does their "parochialism and small-mindedness needs to be challenged"? If the hobby gives them pleasure then this is surely enough. If someone is happy with pie and chips and Blackpool, I might suggest that they would find something else enjoyable, but why would I force them?

 

I'm not asking that GMRC caters to my interests, I'm just saying it would be better if it showcases the range of modelling out there, just as a show about gardening should acknowledge that not everyone wants a 'cottage garden' style.  And that would include everything from a 'Thomas' layout to a large scale train around the Christmas tree which so many Americans do.

 

Asking for GMRC to change is precisely what you have been doing repeatedly on this thread. Even if we get past the idea that the show isn't just about you, nor an effort to promote model railways, there is a practical reason to restrain the contestants. If they have free reign, how do you judge between a pre-1870 OO model, an N gauge 4 track main line with full overhead and a fully scratchbuilt Cuban pulp line in 7/8th scale? You can't, each has its own merits. Some commonality between them makes the differences stand out more and allows the judges to make a choice.

[Andy Y]

and small-mindedness needs to be challenged.

You're doing a good job of insulting a wide group. Please can I remind you that this topic is for discussion of the TV programme and not for you to keep riding your hobby horse over the enjoyment of others.

 

Give it a rest for a bit please.

[Malcolm7mm]

I expect I've missed it somewhere over the last 6 odd pages, a reference re. beach huts in Friday's broadcast, 

but why did that chap, seemingly spend the whole time, in some discomfort, assembling and painting the beach huts?

Could they not have been a 'pre-assemble' item.

if he had been sensible he could have made all the huts stuck them together sprayed it ib one go and fixed on the flags this could have been one of his 6 items 

[Dunsignalling]

Yes, but it needs to be challenged just as all parochialism and small-mindedness needs to be challenged. There's a whole world put there and two-hundred years of railway history to choose from so why stick to a few decades in a small island off Northern Europe?

 

How would you react to someone who always has pie and chips for supper or always holidays in Blackpool? You'd want to introduce them to curry and the Lake District just to see if they might like it for a change.

 

I'm not asking that GMRC caters to my interests, I'm just saying it would be better if it showcases the range of modelling out there, just as a show about gardening should acknowledge that not everyone wants a 'cottage garden' style.  And that would include everything from a 'Thomas' layout to a large scale train around the Christmas tree which so many Americans do.

I've nothing against foreign railways as such, I just wasn't exposed to them at an impressionable age as I was with the UK scene and I haven't yet run out of UK prototypes to be interested in. I quite like pre-TGV SNCF and old Italian electrics too but not well enough to put in the effort needed to model either.

 

I've a couple of mates who are heavily into US railroads. Most of their conversations go straight over my head but I'd need another lifetime to gather half the knowledge they've accumulated.

 

TBH, I've always gone more for depth of interest/knowledge rather than breadth and I could use far more time than I have left for the stuff I'm already interested in.

 

If that's "parochial", guilty as charged.

 

As for introducing other people to stuff that you or I have discovered we like, that's fine so long as we don't patronise or ram it down their throats. I happen to like Real Ale and know it's as much a waste of breath trying to promote the stuff to committed lager drinkers as it would be for them to instil in me any desire for their preferred tipple. 

 

John  

Edited October 23, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Chris M]

Railway modelling is a broad church. If people want to collect locos and keep them in boxes that’s fine. If people want to build a highly detailed diorama with nothing moving then that’s fine. I have four railways in three different scales which are all very different but all share the ethos of having plenty of movement because that’s what I like. Each one of us will get satisfaction from different aspects; there is no right or wrong. The only important thing is that people derive pleasure from being involved in our great hobby.

 

I see a lot of enjoyment on the faces of those working on the challenge and that’s great. People who don’t understand what Railway modelling is all about are watching the programme and enjoying it. What’s not to like?

[Phil Parker]

OK, we've been trolled today and the admin hammer has had to come out to drag this thread back to the Great Model Railway Challenge. I know it's a lot to ask but can we just stick to the topic and avoid trying to change the wider world? It's only a TV show...

[Nedrahn]

GMRC is what it is - like an exhibition, not everyone will love the format or the layouts. Personally, I've thoroughly enjoyed it, and it can only benefit the hobby. How many model railway programmes do we get on TV? Now how many model railway programmes do we get where the producers show respect for the subject and take railway modelling seriously (but not too seriously, thankfully)? This could have been one giant piss-take, along the lines of here comes Thomas, toot toot, and let's make fun of the grown men (no women, of course) playing with their little trains. Instead we get an attempt to take the appeal and pleasure of our hobby and package it for a wider audience. It doesn't work completely, but it's still better than anything we've seen before. Just compare it with rubbish like "The Biggest Little Railway in the World".

If I could change anything, I would say that each team must be made up of railway modellers. It was a bad reflection on Laurie Calvert, which is a shame because at exhibitions he comes across as a very nice guy, who throws himself into his subject. His science fiction layout is excellent.

I must also say that Kathy Millatt is wonderful! Kudos to her for coming on to this forum to talk about the show. It again reflects well on the programme that a bone fide modeller like Kathy Millatt is in a prominent position, as is the editor of what is still Britain's best railway modelling magazine. Sorry ModelHornbyBrum-Brum, even producing three issues a month doesn't equal the Modeller. Or at least that's my opinion, and as some seem to forget, an opinion is only that, not the whole of the law. That's reserved for Judge Dredd.

 

EDIT: despite what Andy Y seems to believe, this did NOT contain a personal insult.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Andy Y
Off-topic comments removed.

[vaughan45]

Without wishing to digress too far, this would be an amazing idea - bit of a backstory about the person who started it (even with the typical daytime TV schlock of struggling working-class single mum trying to help her son get off the reefer) , a short segment on the prototype, some planning and sketching, montage of building and done - Scrapheap Challenge meets Art Attack meets model railways

 

'PImp My Layout'

[john new]

The scenes are wide ranging, so far we have ranged from -

• Flanders in WW1 
• South Coast in WW2
• Modern electrics in E London
• ?? On the Dr Who layout
• Several parts of the world on Laurie's Sc-fi layout
• Inland and coastal settings.
• Had some 009 on the Flanders layout.
• Had some N on this week's winner 
• Forced perspective techniques (In week 1 and week 3)
• Urban (Missenden and the E Enders layouts)
• Rural and desert settings.
• Ordinary - v- fantasy settings.
• Out of the box thinking (with varying success) in the scrap-box challenge.

It has gripped two of my four grandchildren and is encouraging my daughter to think about doing more with a new end to end layout for them as the small roundy-roundy I refurbed for them is an awkward fit for the space available. It has also, along with Clive's Sheffield thread, re-sparked my own interests in making something rather than just researching Early (pre-steam)/Georgian railways. It is succeeding as what it is for the target audience. 

[Mike Storey]

 Or at least that's my opinion, and as some seem to forget, an opinion is only that, not the whole of the law. That's reserved for Judge Dredd.

 

Or someone else, whose name we all might be thinking you would have put there.......

[john new]

Just watching E3 again. Anyone else notice the bloopers - all three layouts were given the same track plan!

 

(Edit - First time round - correct later)

Edited October 23, 2018 by john new

[RJS1977]

I already suggested that!

 

Though I'm not sure what you'd do for other rolling stock, or how much it would mean to a mainstream audience.

 

Everyone knows the Flying Scotsman - but how many people know that it went on holiday?

 

(And to get it really right, it would have to acquire a cow-catcher and bell before popping out into the US. Maybe two locomotives? The animation could be them being lifted onto and off a ship....)

 

Great minds think alike! :-)

 

Other rolling stock - for the Australia scene it would be easy enough to repaint an HST as an XPT! Or maybe Pendennis Castle, as the two ran side-by-side in Perth.

 

I think quite a few people these days at least know about the USA tour as pretty much every documentary about the loco over the last few years has mentioned it.

[Huw Griffiths]

GMRC is what it is - like an exhibition, not everyone will love the format or the layouts. Personally, I've thoroughly enjoyed it, and it can only benefit the hobby. How many model railway programmes do we get on TV? Now how many model railway programmes do we get where the producers show respect for the subject and take railway modelling seriously (but not too seriously, thankfully)? This could have been one giant piss-take, along the lines of here comes Thomas, toot toot, and let's make fun of the grown men (no women, of course) playing with their little trains. Instead we get an attempt to take the appeal and pleasure of our hobby and package it for a wider audience. It doesn't work completely, but it's still better than anything we've seen before. Just compare it with rubbish like "The Biggest Little Railway in the World".

 

If I could change anything, I would say that each team must be made up of railway modellers. It was a bad reflection on Laurie Calvert, which is a shame because at exhibitions he comes across as a very nice guy, who throws himself into his subject. His science fiction layout is excellent.

 

I must also say that Kathy Millatt is wonderful! Kudos to her for coming on to this forum to talk about the show. It again reflects well on the programme that a bone fide modeller like Kathy Millatt is in a prominent position, as is the editor of what is still Britain's best railway modelling magazine.

 

You make some interesting points.

 

Certainly, I've liked what I've seen so far - and I don't doubt that I'll like what remains to be seen of this series. I don't think anyone would realistically expect everything about the series to work, straight out of the box - but, overall, I've found the series to be rather good - I'd like further series.

 

I can see what you mean about teams being composed completely of railway modellers - however, I can also see why various people (and companies) connected with the series would be happy for at least one team not to be. If nothing else, this shows a number of beginners that it's possible to build some sort of working layout in a reasonable time, even if you haven't got loads of experience in railway modelling. It also shows that some problems are likely - but it's quite possible that they'd be able to be addressed.

 

Although I've never been into "steampunk", the fact that Laurie was willing to enter, with a team of people with little or no railway modelling experience, speaks volumes. They would have known they were probably going home (and possibly in line for some unwarranted "stick"), before they even got to the venue. Despite this, they were still willing to have a go - and give it their best. As far as I'm concerned, they all deserve respect.

 

Indeed, some people could argue that Laurie deserves particular respect here - I don't doubt that he could have turned up at a challenge like this, with a team of experienced railway modellers and ended up in a far better position at the end of a heat.

 

However, none of this takes anything away from the team that won this heat. Their layout and their work were excellent - and they fully deserve their heat win and place in the final.

 

 

Incidentally, for me, there was a "night and day" difference between GMRC and "Biggest Little Railway" - in fairness, they were trying to do completely different things - but I'm really enjoying GMRC.

 

As for the team in front of the cameras on GMRC - the judges - the presenters - they all "work" well here and I hope we see them all in any future series.

 

 

Huw.

[Coryton]

Great minds think alike! :-)

 

Other rolling stock - for the Australia scene it would be easy enough to repaint an HST as an XPT! Or maybe Pendennis Castle, as the two ran side-by-side in Perth.

 

I think quite a few people these days at least know about the USA tour as pretty much every documentary about the loco over the last few years has mentioned it.

 

I could be wrong but I suspect there are a lot of people who have heard of the Flying Scotsman but have managed to avoid documentaries about it.

[Coryton]

I'm not sure what I'm enjoying more...watching the show, or the unusual experience (to me) of being able to read and take part in discussion afterwards with the participants.

 

Television normally seems a remote, one-way, process and I'm finding this fascinating.

[wagonbasher]

The scenes are wide ranging, so far we have ranged from -

 

• Flanders in WW1 
• South Coast in WW2
• Modern electrics in E London
• ?? On the Dr Who layout
• Several parts of the world on Laurie's Sc-fi layout
• Inland and coastal settings.
• Had some 009 on the Flanders layout.
• Had some N on this week's winner 
• Forced perspective techniques (In week 1 and week 3)
• Urban (Missenden and the E Enders layouts)
• Rural and desert settings.
• Ordinary - v- fantasy settings.
• Out of the box thinking (with varying success) in the scrap-box challenge.

It has gripped two of my four grandchildren and is encouraging my daughter to think about doing more with a new end to end layout for them as the small roundy-roundy I refurbed for them is an awkward fit for the space available. It has also, along with Clive's Sheffield thread, re-sparked my own interests in making something rather than just researching Early (pre-steam)/Georgian railways. It is succeeding as what it is for the target audience.

Just ordinary UK. pre steam Georgian railways?

 

Andy

[Morphaniel]

3 Episodes in and I'm enjoying it very much - not only that but the viewing figures quoted appear to be backed up by increasing interest outside modelling circles. The number of colleagues who have come up to me at work to talk about the show has been outstanding and I noted that the Guardian TV Guide last Saturday picked up the show as a highlight and wasn't condescending in the write-up. Modellers are forever complaining that the the hobby is dying out and a successful show of this nature cannot do any harm, particularly as the efforts being portrayed will strike a very close chord with parents and children who may be giving half a thought to train sets as Christmas presents already.

 

I am very impressed by the two hosts, both of whom appear not to be modellers but display real enthusiasm across the three days. On my wish list for the next series would be the replacement of the endless brief shots of the Fawley Hill railway with an equally short exploration of the more typical model layouts in the 'sheds, garages and lofts' of the country that are referred to in the opening titles. The layouts produced on the show achieve their purpose and are entertaining but I don't see any reason why a minute or two could not be spent looking at the more careful work produced by the teams in normal circumstances, for instance.

[john new]

Just ordinary UK. pre steam Georgian railways?

 

Andy

Yes. Through to Queen Victoria. A fair bit done on Huntingdon Beaumont (very definitely pre-steam) then through the Napoleonic War era and why the horse got displaced by what was then the upcoming first modern image i.e. steam. Through the reign of the Georges and then Q Vic.

[PatB]

I might have to stop reading this thread. A number of posts on the previous page have left the needle on my ironyometer severely bent from hitting the stops .

[JohnR]

Just to say that in my work stock room today a late twenties colleague (who knows of my interest) mentioned to me 'I've caught some of a programme about model railways -  I quite liked what I saw'.

 

At that point another colleague who had no knowledge of my hobby added ' Yes, my 5 year old really loves that programme. We've watched them all'.

 

All three of of us then had a 10 minute sensible chat about the hobby.

 

I rest my case!

 

This is exactly the sort of reaction that many of us were hoping for from people who probably havnt thought about Railway Modelling. Even if only a few of them will actively take up the hobby, many others will now visit Model Railway shows who probably wouldnt have thought about it before.

[hayfield]

Watched the 3 episode again and I think what makes it interesting to the modeller may not make it appealing to the average viewer, still it it increases interest then its good

 

I still prefer the content of the first program (which I have only watched once) looking forward to the next episodes/finals to see if things interest me further. Still at the end of the day its a bit of fun and makes a change from other overworked formats

[Chris M]

Just to give another view. I know nothing about sewing but I enjoyed the sewing bee challenge. I only watched it because SWMBO wanted to see it . It was good to see people given a challenge and being creative. It was good to see a bit about what making a garment requires but without getting bogged down in detail. I won't be taking up sewing any time soon but the programme helped me to understand and respect those who do.

I'm sure non model railway people feel the same about GMR.

[SteveCole]

STOP PRESS!

 

We've just had it confirmed that the Missenden Modellers team will be exhibiting Ealing Road at The London Festival of Railway Modelling at Alexandra Palace on March 23 and 24, 2019.