Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[wagonbasher]

Green fuzzy lumps?

 

Or Anthony Gormleys 1980 bread sculpture.....

 

bread.jpg

butter anyone?

 

Andy

[hicksan]

Missenden - despite their number of pre-builds - presented an unfinished layout with track unballasted, screws showing etc. The judges downgraded their score based on this.

 

Fawley appeared to have presented a completed layout.

 

It could also be that the other teams in Missenden's heat raised a complaint with the judges regarding Missenden's number of pre-built items and Fawley did not.

 

The 'Fire and Ice' episode with Fawley was the first to be filmed. The 'Movies' episode with Missenden was the last. Lots of rules got changed after the first episode because the production team were still figuring out how everything would work. There was supposed to be an on-site shop, according to the rules, but that vanished. Something to do with laws on product placement that no-one had figured till then. The feedback we (Missenden) got through the grapevine was that the prebuild rules had been completely ditched - in part due to the panic in completing one of the layouts and the fact that another didn't run when required - so the priority was to throw everything at making sure trains actually work on camera and that the layouts all look passable. We learnt that there was no points system behind the judging, that the scratchbuild challenge was more a piece of fun which didn't seriously impact the outcome, except perhaps as a tie breaker, and that the final result depended only on the overall impression. What no-one had realised till then was how little actual modelling time people would have on set due to filming interruptions - enforced silences, layouts simply being picked up and carried out of the way of cameras, toolboxes being moved by stage-hands and disappearing for hours, etc, and that the actual working time was less than 24 hours and more like 17 in reality. Further feedback from subsequent episodes confirmed those observations. So we set about drastically slashing our plans; simplifying the design, removing unnecessary cameos and animations to bring the projected build time down. The advice turned out to be accurate in practice, except for the rules not actually officially being changed (just not enforced till we pushed things too far), and we still ran out of time anyway. Of course it also helps not to appear as arrogant or smug gits, on or off camera, whatever leading questions might get asked. Some lessons just have to be learnt the hard way.

[hicksan]

Bit of thread drift but I thought that the main protagonist in the Lavender Hill Mob did succeed. He got away with some of the gold, enjoyed himself for a year or so enjoying himself to the full and didn't resist when they eventually caught up with him as he'd had his enjoyment... Or have I mis-interpreted the ending of the film all these years!

 

My understanding is that, like all proper comic tragedies, we are meant to think that the protagonist has got away with it till the very last minute when it is revealed that he has actually been arrested and is being led off to spend the rest of his life in prison and disgrace with the rest of the gang. Not what I would consider a happy ending, but satisfying nonetheless. Rather like The Italian Job.

[andyram]

It landed on the camera.

In view of recent events, isn’t this this line of chat a little insensitive?

 

Referring back to other comments, thanks for clarifying the events regarding the pre-built items.

[JohnR]

My understanding is that, like all proper comic tragedies, we are meant to think that the protagonist has got away with it till the very last minute when it is revealed that he has actually been arrested and is being led off to spend the rest of his life in prison and disgrace with the rest of the gang. Not what I would consider a happy ending, but satisfying nonetheless. Rather like The Italian Job.

 

Bear in mind the censors at the time wouldnt have allowed a film which showed someone "getting away with it".

[Colin_McLeod]

It landed on the camera.

  

 

In view of recent events, isn’t this this line of chat a little insensitive?

 

There will always be "recent events". Hicksan's comment is in the context of the model railway challenge and nothing to do with the two recent tragic helicopter crashes.

 

With due sympathy to all concerned, life still goes on for everyone else until it is their turn.

 

 

RIP

[Captain Kernow]

The protagonists in The Lavender Hill Mob and The Ladykillers failed, in both cases, because they lacked the ruthlessness to carry through their dastardly plan to its logical conclusion. 

 

Out of interest, did you consider also including 'The Titfield Thunderbolt' in your list of films being depicted?

[MarkSG]

Something to do with laws on product placement that no-one had figured till then.

It did amuse me slightly that the only manufacturer to actually get their name on screen - as opposed to in the credits - was Heljan, on the containers on Clucas Bay. Which is even more impressive given that Heljan isn't a sponsor. Although I wonder if that's how it slipped past scrutiny - maybe the producers didn't realise that Heljan is a model railway company, and not a "real" name you'd expect to see on a container.

[hicksan]

  

 

 

There will always be "recent events". Hicksan's comment is in the context of the model railway challenge and nothing to do with the two recent tragic helicopter crashes.

 

With due sympathy to all concerned, life still goes on for everyone else until it is their turn.

 

 

RIP

 

Thank you, Colin. I wasn't making a joke or trying to be funny. Done enough of that lately. What I said is what actually happened. No-one got hurt, nothing got broken and nobody died, much like the GMRC in fact, though you wouldn't think it from some of the comments trolling around on this and other less well moderated forums. It would be nice if some other contributors tried for once not to assume the very worst about people they have never met, at every opportunity and before they actually know the facts, or at least to hold back from casting unfunny uniformed snide aspersions that just make themselves look foolish.

[Richard Jones]

Out of interest, did you consider also including 'The Titfield Thunderbolt' in your list of films being depicted?

Similarly, I wonder if anyone considered "Oh, Mr Porter"?

[Ian Morgan]

It was odd that they came round and stuck tape over Evo-Stik Resin W, which has an easily identifiable shape and colour, and on all my tins of spray paint, so I cannot see what colour they are any more, and covered the Facebook logo on the Aberdeen club polo shirts, yet Heljan, Pringles, Eddie Stobart and my DHL van all ended up on screen.

 

[hicksan]

Out of interest, did you consider also including 'The Titfield Thunderbolt' in your list of films being depicted?

 

We did. It was there. Up by Mrs Willoughby's house from The Ladykillers - back left. We had the scene - being filmed by Michael Balcon with lights and camera crew as well (as he recorded in a home movie, which can be found on youtube) - of the mocked-up loco mounted on a lorry chassis driving along the road and bursting through a wooden fence. Not animated, sadly, which would have been nice (might even have counted as yet another train running - just not on rails :-). I had wanted to use the Faller lorry for that careening through the townscape but we only had one and the team preferred to show it driving soberly to the dock with a load of whisky for the SS Cabinet Minister - and anyway the upper road was impassable (for reasons already explained). So many animations got cut. My favourite would have been the vanishing Ladykillers - disappearing in a puff of smoke from the tunnel, one by one, each time a coal train passes with the body apparently fallen into the last wagon. Not to mention the zombies from Sean of the Dead (also filmed at Ealing Studios, like the modern St Trinians films), which got vetoed on grounds of being out of character, out of period and just a bit creepy.

 

We did briefly consider doing a layout based on Thunderbolt, but that would have been much simpler - more of a one trick wonder - with less opportunities for forced perspective and animations. I did even plan one with an N gauge viaduct along the back, to show the train changing scale like the Basingstoke Bodgers did on their (excellent) layout. It would have been much easier to build. Heck, we might even have won with that, but TBH we all prefer to have lost but built Ealing Road - which is starting to look rather splendid now. We decided the London docklands cityscape offered more opportunities for cameos, better perspective effects and more of a challenge to stretch us. No looking back, only forward.

[hicksan]

Similarly, I wonder if anyone considered "Oh, Mr Porter"?

 

Yes. Will Hay was a comic genius. Same considerations as Thunderbolt, plus the fact that many of the younger viewers will (sadly) never have heard of the film so it would mean nothing to them - just another pretty branch line with an animated windmill and figures clinging to its arms plus a train with the fireman on the roof.

[sharris]

I am not getting into a debate on DC v DCC but finger poking does not work when the whole layout has stopped and people stand around scratching their heads not knowing what to do.  It happens at every show I go to and at York this year one DCC layout spent all 3 days without running from its set up to dismantling. Don't get me going on sound either.

 

Garry

 

I don't think this is a DC v DCC issue. What I think it comes down to is being properly prepared for an exhibition.

 

Whatever technology you decide to use:

Make sure your operators understand how to use it properly. 

Take fault finding equipment and repair equipment with you. 

Make sure your operators are trained to do basic fault finding and repairs. 

Design your layout with faults in mind - can faulty sections be isolated out to recover some functionality? 

Take some test track - is the problem the controller, locomotive or layout? 

Where possible have backup systems in place - spare controllers, DCC chips if that's your thing.

Document the layout - have a manual for it that explains how it works, wiring diagrams, controller and chip settings, etc. 

 

When the layout's at home or at the club it's an annoyance but not critical if something doesn't work right. When it's at an exhibition, it's theatre and 'the show must go on'.

I used to tech for an amateur theatre group, and would make sure there was always a back-up audio player that I could work in the dark, had spare cables to hand and a diagram of the lighting rig and lighting desk manual so that if any lanterns failed or something went awry with the programming, there was something else that could be brought up temporarily to cover for it. 

[MarkSG]

Product placement rules are complicated, made more so by the fact that there are two different sets of rules which need to be taken into account. There are the formal Ofcom rules on paid product placement, which all broadcasters need to comply with, and then individual broadcasters will have their own policies on unpaid placement.
 
There's no actual paid product placement in the show (if there was it would have to be declared, and it hasn't been), but that's also why the sponsors only get a mention in the credits rather than on-screen - because if they were mentioned or shown on-screen, that would be regulated product placement. That's also why Steve Flint is introduced as the editor of a "leading railway modelling publication" rather than naming RM, because that would be placement.
 
When it comes to unpaid placement - the incidental appearance of real-life brands on screen, not having been deliberately placed as advertising - most broadcasters have a policy that, essentially, tries to avoid giving away free advertising (unless trivial or unavoidable) or doing anything which could imply endorsement of a particular product.
 
In the case of glue and paint, that is directly relevant to the programme as modellers will, of course, use them. So their policies probably do prohibit any particular brand appearing on screen as that could be taken as endorsement of that brand by the programme makers. But a model of a DHL van or Stobart truck doesn't carry the same implication - it's just a model of a real-life thing. The same with real-life modern image train liveries - they're unavoidable in this context, but their appearance doesn't imply that the programme makers are recommending them in any way.
 
That's why I suspect that Heljan got away with it, because the programme makers probably assumed that it's just another shipping company name that you would expect to see on the side of a container.
 
There are also issues around intellectual property in things like logos. That's probably why they covered up the Facebook logo, because that's technically a breach of IP rights - Facebook doesn't permit the use of its logo on clothing, and, while it's unlikely they are going to be suing the Aberdeen club for what is a fairly minimal breach, a broadcaster can't allow itself to be associated with that.
 
The way it was once explained to me by someone involved in making these decisions is that the rule of thumb is to ask yourself this question: Does the owner of the brand want it to appear on our programme?

 

If the answer is "yes", then that's advertising, so unless there's a good reason, don't do it (unless they are willing to pay, of course).

 

If the answer is "no", then that may be a breach of IP rights, so unless it's necessary and can be justified by one of the exceptions, don't do it.

 

If the answer is "don't care", then that's fine, we don't care either, so feel free to do it!

 

Obviously, a lot of that is subjective, and different people making the same decisions may well come to different conclusions. But that's also why it can seem maddeningly inconsistent (something which independent programmer makers producing shows for broadcasters often complain about themselves!). In the end, it all comes down to what seems like the right decision on the day.

[Richard Jones]

Yes. Will Hay was a comic genius. Same considerations as Thunderbolt, plus the fact that many of the younger viewers will (sadly) never have heard of the film so it would mean nothing to them - just another pretty branch line with an animated windmill and figures clinging to its arms plus a train with the fireman on the roof.

.....and the trucks going over the cliff into the quarry, the express demolishing the coaches fouling the mainline.... the football special (with thier own

"Goalposts" disappearing down the disused line....

The opening scene with the A4 and assembled dignitaries getting a shower is great, but whether any of this would translate well into a layout (in the available time) is open to debate!

 

Also a Will Hay (and light railway) enthusiast! but as you say, it all predates me, let alone the younger generation!

[Richard Jones]

[Hobby]

It did amuse me slightly that the only manufacturer to actually get their name on screen - as opposed to in the credits - was Heljan, on the containers on Clucas Bay

 

I'm sure one of the early episodes had some Peco track boxes in the background in shot a couple of times...

[bryherw]

Hello RMWeb, 

 

Bryher here, Producer/Director of GMRC Series 1.

 

It's been great reading this forum and seeing the (sometimes lively!) debates and discussions about the show. Our team at Knickerbockerglory loved making Series 1 and we always wanted to make a show that celebrated this wonderful hobby, so it's great to hear that modellers have been enjoying watching the series so much. 

 

As you may have seen at the end of last week's episode, we are now looking for teams for Series 2. We're looking for enthusiastic teams of 6 who are up for the CHALLENGE and can take the trophy in 2019!

 

We are beginning casting this week and would like to hear from as many potential teams as possible before Christmas! Interested team captains - please send your name, location and phone number to: 

 

 

casting@knickerbockerglory.tv 

 

 

Other useful info you could also send to us:

 

- Any ideas you might have for a layout for the competition

- Who are your team and how do you know each other

- Photos of layouts made my members of your team 

 

Really looking forward to hearing from you and seeing what Series 2 will bring! 

 

Best, 

 

Bryher & all of Team GMRC at Knickerbockerglory 

[Edge]

Hello RMWeb, 

 

Bryher here, Producer/Director of GMRC Series 1.

 

It's been great reading this forum and seeing the (sometimes lively!) debates and discussions about the show. Our team at Knickerbockerglory loved making Series 1 and we always wanted to make a show that celebrated this wonderful hobby, so it's great to hear that modellers have been enjoying watching the series so much. 

 

As you may have seen at the end of last week's episode, we are now looking for teams for Series 2. We're looking for enthusiastic teams of 6 who are up for the CHALLENGE and can take the trophy in 2019!

 

We are beginning casting this week and would like to hear from as many potential teams as possible before Christmas! Interested team captains - please send your name, location and phone number to: 

 

 

casting@knickerbockerglory.tv 

 

 

Other useful info you could also send to us:

 

- Any ideas you might have for a layout for the competition

- Who are your team and how do you know each other

- Photos of layouts made my members of your team 

 

Really looking forward to hearing from you and seeing what Series 2 will bring! 

 

Best, 

 

Bryher & all of Team GMRC at Knickerbockerglory 

 

Hi there, nice to see that someone from the showmakers is here . Quick question - i sent in a brief email on Friday for an application - should I have heard anything by now? Or is it something where i will have to just be patient for a bit?

Edited November 6, 2018 by Edge

[sharris]

I'm sure one of the early episodes had some Peco track boxes in the background in shot a couple of times...

I noticed a Parkside Dundas branded packet a couple of weeks ago too - I think on the Fawley work bench.

[enginelane]

Hi there, nice to see that someone from the showmakers is here . Quick question - i sent in a brief email on Friday for an application - should I have heard anything by now? Or is it something where i will have to just be patient for a bit?

The more stuff you send will be helpful

[hayfield]

Hello RMWeb, 

 

Bryher here, Producer/Director of GMRC Series 1.

 

It's been great reading this forum and seeing the (sometimes lively!) debates and discussions about the show. Our team at Knickerbockerglory loved making Series 1 and we always wanted to make a show that celebrated this wonderful hobby, so it's great to hear that modellers have been enjoying watching the series so much. 

 

As you may have seen at the end of last week's episode, we are now looking for teams for Series 2. We're looking for enthusiastic teams of 6 who are up for the CHALLENGE and can take the trophy in 2019!

 

We are beginning casting this week and would like to hear from as many potential teams as possible before Christmas! Interested team captains - please send your name, location and phone number to: 

 

 

casting@knickerbockerglory.tv 

 

 

Other useful info you could also send to us:

 

- Any ideas you might have for a layout for the competition

- Who are your team and how do you know each other

- Photos of layouts made my members of your team 

 

Really looking forward to hearing from you and seeing what Series 2 will bring! 

 

Best, 

 

Bryher & all of Team GMRC at Knickerbockerglory 

 

 

I would just like to say a big thanks for the program, like most there were some layouts I liked better than others, but for a new approach to the subject its been a job well done and I wish the production team all the best for the second and hopefully subsequent series

 

Most of us accept that the layouts must be working and finished at the end for the program to have a broad appeal to all viewers, plus have the odd characterful contestant to add to the enjoyment. Most realise a certain amount of pre assembly is a must. As s first series, I think you gave the impression of getting the balance about right for us enthusiasts.

 

I also found the programs were being respectful to the hobby, nothing wrong with a bit of light humor along with a bit of serious competitiveness,

 

Looking forward to Friday night

[Ouroborus]

Hello RMWeb, 

 

Bryher here, Producer/Director of GMRC Series 1.

 

It's been great reading this forum and seeing the (sometimes lively!) debates and discussions about the show. Our team at Knickerbockerglory loved making Series 1 and we always wanted to make a show that celebrated this wonderful hobby, so it's great to hear that modellers have been enjoying watching the series so much. 

 

As you may have seen at the end of last week's episode, we are now looking for teams for Series 2. We're looking for enthusiastic teams of 6 who are up for the CHALLENGE and can take the trophy in 2019!

 

We are beginning casting this week and would like to hear from as many potential teams as possible before Christmas! Interested team captains - please send your name, location and phone number to: 

 

 

casting@knickerbockerglory.tv 

 

 

Other useful info you could also send to us:

 

- Any ideas you might have for a layout for the competition

- Who are your team and how do you know each other

- Photos of layouts made my members of your team 

 

Really looking forward to hearing from you and seeing what Series 2 will bring! 

 

Best, 

 

Bryher & all of Team GMRC at Knickerbockerglory 

 

 

As above.  Thank you for making a show that is so 'cosy' to watch, with interest and humour in equal measure.  Never is a joke taken too far, never is it nasty, never has it been a lazy jab at 'anoraks'.  Its a great show, you should be really proud.  Is there any thought in a spin-off programme showing how some of these fabulous layouts were done, particularly some of the finer details?  I've seen several things done that i'd love to know more about - water, static grass, moving vehicles were all items that I would have loved to watch more about.

[Pete the Elaner]

Is there any thought in a spin-off programme showing how some of these fabulous layouts were done, particularly some of the finer details?  I've seen several things done that i'd love to know more about - water, static grass, moving vehicles were all items that I would have loved to watch more about.

In that case, it sounds like the programme served as a good teaser.

You can see all of this in action at exhibitions. Most layout operators will be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

Many of us on here (myself included) learned the majority of what we know from a local club & enjoy passing the knowledge & skills on to others.