Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[Huw Griffiths]

Do they mean Ally Pally when they say 'most prestigious exhibition in the country'? I can see why, the Alexandra Palace is one of the most significant exhibition venues in the country.

  

Warley, I think.

.

 

I actually thought the programme referred to "the most prestigious exhibitionS …" - quite a clever move really, as different shows and venues are highly regarded for different reasons.

 

 

Huw.

[Liam]

Warley, I think.

I would naturally assume so, but the footage at that moment looked like Ally Pally.

[Andy Y]

.

I actually thought the programme referred to "the most prestigious exhibitionS …" - quite a clever move really, as different shows and venues are highly regarded for different reasons.

Huw.

The phrase used in the show is in the plural, there will be displays at Warley and we have agreed this week for the Missenden team to display at Ally Pally in March.

 

The exhibition shots seen in the show were done at Ally Pally this year where Knickerbocker TV came along to see the event where Phil talked to the producer.

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=660cy2Sj9n0

[Penlan]

....... What I didn't get this evening was what had been each team's six pre-made items. I did think I'd seen a very sophisticated control panel, not one put together in a couple of hours, but would that count  as one of the six prebuilds?.

Well the lady doing the trees (Fawley Flyers?) said she takes about 20 hours to make each one, and there where probably half a dozen there......

Edited October 26, 2018 by Penlan

[Penlan]

Having seen what the Fawley Layout looked like before we started building I can assure you it wasn't built in the three days of filming. 

Uhmmmn... 

[sharris]

I really didn't know which way it would go today.

 

Railway Children: a bit rough around the edges, but whose wouldn't be with just 2 1/2 days starting from bare boards, and it appears they learned a lot as they went. The team that most obviously includes elements of the brief. And the back-story and commentary was sheer brilliance. Obviously lost points for not doing the scratchbuild challenge- although pushed for time that may have been a tactical error - I feel that without a penalty for that, their more obvious fitting of the brief may have put them in the running. I do suspect though from the shots of construction that it might not survive being moved from its construction site (is robustness a criterion in judging at this stage?)

 

Dynamos: nicely made, but I'm not sure the chilli and freezer factories were utilised enough to really work the brief well - I might at least have rebranded the lorries and containers with hot chilli and ice graphics to continue the theme past the factory gate. If only they'd got the lorry to burst into flames when it took a dive ;-)

 

Fawley: Obviously the best in terms of detail and construction, but obviously a lot more prior work than the other two, but a fairly tenuous link to the brief. One thing I wondered- the rolling stock appeared to have been worked on somewhat since it came out of the box, and there appeared to be quite a lot of it - it seems contestants are allowed to use their existing stock, but does it have to be declared beforehand and the budgets adjusted accordingly, and if it's been detailed and weathered maybe there should be some trade off against pre-builds.

 

Any of them could have won this week for different reasons.

[Pacific231G]

Well the lady doing the trees (Fawley Flyers?) said she takes about 20 hours to make each one, and there where probably half a dozen there......

That was the one thing I wasn't impressed by. It might just be how they were shot but the trees I saw on the programme simply didn't look like 20 hours of work each to me .

[grahame]

There seems to be lots of talk from the judges/presenters about winning points or losing points but they don't give the final total scores (or whether it actually makes any difference to the result).

 

G

[sharris]

That was the one thing I wasn't impressed by. It might just be how they were shot but the trees I saw on the programme simply didn't look like 20 hours of work each to me .

I suspect most of that 20 hours is watching the plaster and paint drying on the trunks.

[Robin Brasher]

In view of the problems with the Faller road system perhaps we should go back to Tri-ang Minic Motorways.

[Butler Henderson]

Thinking about the fire hole LED issue issue  it really ought to attached to a timer circuit to switch it on and off at irregular moments to portray the firebox door being opened and shut (or is there a LED available with such built in?); taking it a stage further a working fireman is a must!.I do find the lack of two large objects in the cab of steam locomotives strange on many layouts and given the ability to make working bicycles (i.e. https://www.magnorail.com/en) some movement of the figures in the cab should be possible for someone to come up with.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Butler Henderson

[johnlambert]

Having seen what the Fawley Layout looked like before we started building I can assure you it wasn't built in the three days of filming. They made a very good interpretation of the scratch built item rule, their item being most of the upper level of the layout, and ran with it.

Fair play to them.

The Dynamos (team I was on) came in with some track laid, and the railway children had a blank set of boards. Ours was about 30hours, as we did a little track laying pre build work, and the RC boys in the 24 hours.

 

We were also the first show to be shot so no one really had a clue what to expect. Poor old Missenden were the last show and the production team knew how to play things.

Good to know, thanks for that.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Given last nights theme I thought it would be a difficult one to build around and well done to all concerned. I think I would have gone with the railway children as they got on on well considering they had not met before (in person) and had less time than the others. It was a good experience for them and I hope they go on to continue and build on what they have experienced.

 

Reading the comment about what was done/allowed before filming I wonder what control measures are in place to prevent advantages or liberties over others being taken?

 

Still, another really enjoyable show.

 

Garry

Edited October 27, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[sb67]

Sorry if I've missed it but can anybody tell me what happened to this weeks layouts after the show?

Steve.

[Robin2]

I'm quite certain that the two judges are judging fairly

I can see that my comments about "political" choices may be a bit ambiguous. I certainly did not mean to imply that Kathy and Steve are applying "politics" (small p again). My comments were only about how I was thinking about it (too many years as a civil servant )

 

...R

Edited October 27, 2018 by Robin2

[sb67]

It being my Barclay I was rather nervous as well! It was completely safe though thankfully, haha.

Glad to hear no Barclays were harmed during the filming of the episode ;-)

Steve.

[Pint of Adnams]

The phrase used in the show is in the plural, there will be displays at Warley and we have agreed this week for the Missenden team to display at Ally Pally in March.

 

The exhibition shots seen in the show were done at Ally Pally this year where Knickerbocker TV came along to see the event where Phil talked to the producer.

 

That explains why those inserted shots include clearly different scales and a much wider range of models (US and continental) than are appearing on the layouts in the challenge. To my mind Fawley failed completely on the 'Fire and Ice' theme but the points system obviously does not give equal rating to the theme and the modelling.

 

I would have expected alpine scenes, ski lifts and skating rinks backed by a volcano to feature, with their scope for additional operating features and special effects, but obviously that's difficult to achieve with what now appears to be a restriction to using Bachmann and Hornby's UK product ranges. What a lost opportunity - perhaps the next series should be more global? The programme intro certainly referred to landscape types not found anywhere in the UK. The 'Ice' theme could have been punned by running models of the DB ICE trains.

 

My memory is tickling me with a documentary showing a model railway that included a 'working' volcano - with simulated lava streams running down the slopes. Is it playing tricks or does anyone else recall this?

 

Finally the Railway Children were sternly criticised by Steve Flint for using wood blocks and wood strips as an elevated track bed. But surely this is a model version of a modern form of construction, albeit using concrete piers and spans, to lay gently-graded and well-aligned tracks across vast spaces without the need for earthworks and ground stabilisation. The old Triang elevated track system was even less sophisticated. For raw beginners they did very well and as such are to be greatly encouraged for such are the future of the hobby.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Pint of Adnams

[sharris]

"Alpine scenes"

 

I was rather hoping one of the teams would base their model on Geoffrey Jones' 1963 film 'Snow'

 

 

[HillsideDepot]

Another good episode, and not so easy to pick the winner this time. One thought, now we know that this was actually the first show recorded, would the judges have gone for the "model railway as we expect it to be" shed layout had they seen some of those that we've now seen? There have been comments about difficult it was to judge last night's three as they were so different; i agree, and we've had the benefit of seeing the 3 previous shows, unlike the judges when they reached last night's decision.

 

The other interesting thing is that the "interested, but not yet involved" public were shown a layout probably more typical of many seen at exhibitions, with presenter and judge comments about "accuracy" and so on, along side they Dynamos who built what we might come to know as a GMRC-style layout and the Railway Children which came over as "we've never done this before" but still ended up with a working layout. A great spread to show the diversity of our hobby, and almost a timeline from post-Christmas "so what shall we do with this train-set" to a couple of years down the line with sound, lights, and Faller roads, but still with the "lets get really serious, study the prototype and replicate it" option ahead - if they're not having too much fun with the lights and sounds etc to want to stay there.

 

And the theme, "Fire and Ice"? Hmmm, heat buckled track and frozen points might have been a pair Cakebox Challenge entries, but I'd have struggled to make a layout on the theme. However I raise the Cakebox Challenge for a reason. My tablet was slow to load this morning so the colourful page top Cakebox banner was before me for longer than usual, which made me think. If there are potential modellers visiting RMWeb to see what its all about that bright banner has hopefully been a very tempting "click" which opens up a whole new world. OK, not a lot of movement in a cakebox compared to a GNRC size layout, but a much more manageable size to build and store, and a great starting point. Whether planned, or a coincidence, it's great timing. 

 

Edit for typos

Edited October 27, 2018 by HillsideDepot

[hayfield]

I really enjoyed last nights show, Fawley whilst stretching the brief a bit certainly seemed to be the best layout and as we have learnt track laying prior to the first day of filming was allowed in the rules unlike Missenden they understood the rules and made the most of them.

 

The other two layouts also showed far more adventurous layout building efforts than some of the previous layouts and for the people watchers you had the person go missing/sidetracked in the coffee room. Plus a bit of controversy with one team skipping the scratch building challenge

 

I know its not going to happen but a Christmas special no holes bared scrap between Fawley and Missenden would be an eye opener  

[ejstubbs]

What I didn't get this evening was what had been each team's six pre-made items. I did think I'd seen a very sophisticated control panel, not one put together in a couple of hours, but would that count  as one of the six prebuilds?

 

As I understand it the limit of six pre-built items applies only to scenics - buildings, trees etc.

 

I'm quite certain that the two judges are judging fairly on the basis of which layout in their considered opinion is the best of the three on the criteria given, not "politically" or on the basis of the line-up the producers would like to see in the final. From what I know of the two judges I don't think they'd let themselves be compromised in that way and, from my impression of the production company, I don't think they'd try.

 

I doubt that there is much objective, points-based scoring involved.  On Bake Off (at least in the discussions that are filmed and put on screen) they seem to work on the basis of person X got this and this badly wrong, person Y did well in the signature, OK in the showstopper but poorly in the technical, person Z aced two of three by a country mile.  Then they announce that person Y is baker of the week, and nobody seems to mind all that much.

 

Strictly, which does used points-based scoring by the judges, seems to get much more stick along the lines of "how did <contestant X> get an eight from <judge Y> for that???" - especially from people who think they know about ballroom/latin/make-it-up-as-you-go-along dancing.  (Not to mention the endless debate about the show's supposed bias towards/against people of colour.)  Strictly does add the audience votes into the mix, though, of course.

 

And a the end of the day it's an entertainment show.  I don't know whether there is any prize money involved, although I rather doubt it.  Just the honour of winning a somewhat contrived* but hopefully enjoyable contest.

 

* Although, actually, aren't all contests contrived in some way or another?  It's not like the Nobel prizes, the Pulitzer Prize, the Fields Medal or the Piolet D'Or where outstanding achievements in a given field are judged in a much wider context.

Edited October 27, 2018 by ejstubbs

[ejstubbs]

That was the one thing I wasn't impressed by. It might just be how they were shot but the trees I saw on the programme simply didn't look like 20 hours of work each to me .

 

I'm sure I could spend 20 hours and still not come up with anything bearing any kind of resemblance to a tree! 

Edited October 27, 2018 by ejstubbs

[Pint of Adnams]

The phrase used in the show is in the plural, there will be displays at Warley and we have agreed this week for the Missenden team to display at Ally Pally in March.

 

The exhibition shots seen in the show were done at Ally Pally this year where Knickerbocker TV came along to see the event where Phil talked to the producer.

 

Wouldn't it be more instructive and illustrative of the broader hobby for the GBP and especially its younger members attending to have the Missenden lot mentor (not control) the 'Railway Children'? That would be much more realistic and attainable by a wider section of the potential modelling community - other layouts present will adequately demonstrate 'proper' modelling.

[The Stationmaster]

Great show but very difficult for both Mrs Stationmaster and I to pick the winner in view of the Fawley Flyers (Fliers?) interpretation of the brief.  Drew's (Castle) scrapbox challenge result was I thought brilliant and showed what modelling with seemingly useless bits of whatever really can be, not that I'm going to buy buy some of those horrible Pringles things just to get a preformed cardboard tube.  This is a section of the show I really like as it takes me back to what many of us did years ago taking things we just happened to find being thrown out and trying to make something of them - definitely an antidote to all those comments about railway modelling becoming too expensive, and potentially what a fun thing to add to an exhibition.

[pmorgan_cym]

Still seems to be following the pattern of one good basic layout, one ambitious idea but flawed execution and one thats just a bit well meh...

 

Scratchbuild change should be changed to a significant feature of the layout created 'can't cook won't cook' style out of a box of standard bits, with maybe a single random gimic item of the week (high heel, plunger, sex toy etc.) to be incorporated each month.