Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[LocoLaurie]

The attached screen grab shows the Fawley Fliers layout (youtube grab) at the beginning of day one and ours, the Diesel Dynamos. Given their workshop was the building we were shooting in they didn't have to move it far. I know from speaking to the team members they pretty much the entire layout working a week or so before the shooting began. One of their pre-built items was the entire upper section of the layout. Measuring roughly 8ft by 4ft (on a 10x5 layout), ballasted, wired and just requiring some scenic detailing. Kudos to them for; planning very well, interpreting the pre-built rules and getting it past the judges. The Railway children baseboards were totally clean when they arrived!

 

This is why I will be very interested in the final. If no prebuilding is allowed, as Laurie mentions, that will separate the men from the boys. I suspect the quality of finish on the final layouts will be substantially less than those in the heats. I'll be proved right or wrong on the 10th Nov

 

That is very interesting. Plus frustrating lol. 

 

I hope people appreciate how well The Railway Children did. Plus they were most creative with their idea. They really, really tried, and took on the challenge head on. Full marks for effort. 

 

Here is a little more background information you might find interesting reading:

 

My Team Steampunk also started with totally blank baseboards. We pre-built six single buildings only. Our base boards were empty as we wanted to do it all from nothing. We did indeed complete a layout in the time alloted. Ours was made in 23.5 hours only. I am proud of my team. We did the challenge for real. It was a personal choice from me, as I wanted to show what could be achieved. Fair enough if other teams built more because they could. But in the end the amount of pre-building variation is not being fully revealed. Let's face it some of the pre-build hours are adding up. That's film-making. So we can assume there is variation in all Heats.

 

Plus as Steve Flint said at the end of Heat 3 that Team Steampunk had it 'Professionally finished off'. I am thankful for Steve saying that because it did fully stand up to close scrutiny by cameras. It was finished. We sat around more or less tidying up and drinking tea for the final half hour. We could have added more mountains and elevation but it was a creative decision to make it flat (turns out it cost us, so lesson learned is build elevation). The mountains we added and the raised tracks were always part of the original design, not afterthoughts, and not rudimentary when finished.

 

But there's more :-)

 

We were told we were 'too extreme' with our design at the very end. Once some of my team realised we never stood a chance they questioned why we were allowed to build this model. We all had to submit our designs weeks beforehand. I figure the production company made the decision, not knowing how the judges would vote. Funny though that Kathy said 'They could have gone out of this world' on TV. I really do not know what they wanted now as that would have been more extreme. So, upon hearing that four of my team went home very disgruntled indeed (the other one could not be there the final day). They refused to do further interviews. I had to dismantle the Time Travel Train alone. In the end Knickerbocker crew helped me too (thank you to Pat, Daniella, Bryher and the team). Bit of a sad end but bear in mind my team had all worked their little socks off, and they were exhausted. I think it was all a misunderstanding myself. These things happen. 

 

I hold no ill feelings at all to Knickerbocker of the judges, and did not at the time. Why? They are entitled to their decision. All judges vote differently. Plus I thought the animations were so good on the Globetrotting Santa that I felt they deserved the win on that basis. I wanted my team to deliver more animations. But we had more detail, and a more creative interpretation of 'Globetrotting'. It was close to be fair. 

 

If we had got further we had already decided to go traditional next time. For the Heat we thought we could push the boundaries. We pushed too far. 'Too Extreme'. 

 

Still I've shown that I make sci-fi railways - on TV. This is what I am getting known for. Our aim for the show was to make something sci-fi on TV. Job done. I am actually a happy loser at the end of Heat 3 as we had no need to build anything further. Anything else was a bonus - we got nothing else. You know what? I'd rather make a sci-fi railway that loses than a regular one that wins. I'm happy. We got to showcase what we do. 

 

I thank Knickerbocker and the judges for giving us the opportunity to entertain the masses with something different. 

[Phil Parker]

It's catching. Today I've been offered some sci-fi modelling for Garden Rail...

[rob D2]

I like your sci-fi railways Laurie, they make model railways a bit cooler !

 

I love the way they refer to Steve flint as “ stern “, our pet guinea pig is scarier !

[JohnR]

Railway modelling is a broad church in my view. I have my own preferences, but that has never stopped me admiring the skill in something that is out of my "comfort zone", whether that is N gauge Swiss stuff, Gauge 1 garden railways, or indeed "Sci-Fi railways". 

[john new]

She and Gordon were running sessions at Pecorama this August, on making plastic kits.

 

I went along with my 6 year old, and now he's hooked on building kits for buildings!

Maggie is one of the York MRS kids corner crew too. Always a popular event.

[LocoLaurie]

It's catching. Today I've been offered some sci-fi modelling for Garden Rail...

 

Lol, well I'm not trying to change things of course, just to add strings to our bow. The wider the appeal, the better. I'm sure we'd all agree. There is room for us all I hope. Plus I bet there are many more inventive ideas to come. 

 

Sometimes I feel as if I'm swimming against the tide and I have no intention of upsetting anyone. Thanks for the supportive comments. It really helps. 

[Colin_McLeod]

No, as posted earlier in the thread, the Peco stand will have the Basingstoke layout, the winner will be on the Bachmann stand:

 

http://news.Bachmann.co.uk/2018/10/Bachmann-products-as-seen-on-screen/

So Basingstoke can't be the winners then.

[PaulRhB]

Sometimes I feel as if I'm swimming against the tide and I have no intention of upsetting anyone.

Yeah certain people make you feel that with anything foreign too! Plus they feel they have to mutter it loudly so everyone can hear Like Thomas layouts there’s certainly a place for foreign, sci fi or steampunk at most shows but the majority should be UK stuff as it’s the bigger percentage of subjects modelled.

Overcoming the expectation that everything should appeal to them because they’ve paid ‘good money’ is impossible for some people

The format really isn’t my thing to watch but I could see doing it being fun with the right group.

Edited October 30, 2018 by PaulRhB

[Pete Thorpe]

So Basingstoke can't be the winners then.

Why not? We built two layouts, one of which (our heat winning layout) will be on Peco's stand, and the other...

[Steamport Southport]

Yeah certain people make you feel that with anything foreign too! Plus they feel they have to mutter it loudly so everyone can hear Like Thomas layouts there’s certainly a place for foreign, sci fi or steampunk at most shows but the majority should be UK stuff as it’s the bigger percentage of subjects modelled.

Overcoming the expectation that everything should appeal to them because they’ve paid ‘good money’ is impossible for some people

The format really isn’t my thing to watch but I could see doing it being fun with the right group.

 

I sometimes go to exhibitions with my brother and we are totally into different things. He usually has his missus and/or grandkids in tow. So a diverse show is usually good for us.

 

 

He's looking at all the scenery, buildings and vehicles. Often taking little photos of them for reference and chatting to the people about techniques. He was fascinated by the Faller system when he first saw it and loves models that are military based or a bit "off the wall". He's probably loving this show.

 

 

I'm the one looking at the goods yard or fiddle yard as I'm mostly interested in rolling stock and locomotives. Normally ignoring scenery as I'm looking at a wagon and wondering what it's parentage is. Then talking for ten minutes about whether the L&YR Highflyer is a kit or scratchbuilt and what motor/gearbox he used.

 

 

 

Jason

[Colin_McLeod]

Why not? We built two layouts, one of which (our heat winning layout) will be on Peco's stand, and the other...

My post was not a comment on the merits of the Basingstoke layout. It was a deduction that follows from the quoted post that the winner would be on one stand and Basingstoke on a different stand.

 

If you found time to build a second layout out of camera shot during the 24 hours and............

[Zomboid]

The Basingstoke team will have build something else for the final though. So they could easily have two GMRC layouts at Warley.

 

In fact you could look at it and say that if they did win, they'd be there with the winner, so bringing the Santa one along as well would just need a van capable of carrying both.

 

Those of us who are only watching will find out in due course...

[Andy Y]

May I applaud all participants that have contributed to the topic and not given away any spoilers to affect anyone's viewing of the show? Anyone trying to deduce who's doing what do risk doing that so can we please leave that aspect alone until the end of the series?

[caradoc]

There was clearly a wide variation in the size and scope of the six pre-builds, presumably the judges were aware of exactly what had been pre-built but it would have been very useful for the viewer to know as well,

[kathymillatt]

We were told we were 'too extreme' with our design at the very end. Once some of my team realised we never stood a chance they questioned why we were allowed to build this model. We all had to submit our designs weeks beforehand.

 

Laurie

 

I'm really upset to hear you were told this. 

 

The production company loved the idea of sci-fi and I like modelling sci-fi as much as model railways. I certainly thought the layout made excellent TV and showcased a different slant entirely.

 

I want to reassure you that the sci-fi/steampunk theme had no bearing on the decision.  When I look at a layout, I don't look at the theme they have chosen but at how closely they achieved it.  I certainly leave any personal views on favourite types of layout or theme on one side.  For example, I don't watch Eastenders or Blackadder and I'm a rabid Doctor Who fan but I judged each layout on how well it represented their stated show.  As you say, the production company also okayed your theme.

 

Theme is just one of four criteria, the others being functionality, quality and creativity.  None of those are affected by the theme chosen.

 

I hope that helps and I know I spoke to your team about why they didn't win at the time and gave them my reasons, none of which were around the theme being too extreme.

 

Regards

 

Kathy

[hayfield]

One of the problems (which can be a strength) of shows where judging takes place is the near impossibility of judging unlike items, then you have the compound problems with the series being the first, perhaps the rules are not as tight as they could be added to how far modellers can stretch the rules and what can and cannot be done in advance of the show

 

Looking at Strictly, how can you compare dances, where every contestant has a different dance, some contestants are more proficient with one style than others, then you have viewer preferences and don't forget they have had several voting rule changes to try and make final decisions based on dance ability not personalities

 

Back to this show I think most would agree with the judges verdicts as to which layouts won. A first series must be one of the hardest to complete in as there is nothing to base/compare your ideas on. Other than what basis the end product will be judged on, plus what needs to done prior to the show.

 

I think the most consistent area has been the judging, which sometimes contradicts the selective sound bites chosen (for effect) by the production company

 

As I have said before an enjoyable light entertainment program, which shows the hobby off in a good light

[Rivercider]

Lol, well I'm not trying to change things of course, just to add strings to our bow. The wider the appeal, the better. I'm sure we'd all agree. There is room for us all I hope. Plus I bet there are many more inventive ideas to come. 

 

Sometimes I feel as if I'm swimming against the tide and I have no intention of upsetting anyone. Thanks for the supportive comments. It really helps. 

Hi Laurie.

 

I have enjoyed the series so far, and agree that to show a wide variety of layout styles, (within the obvious constraints)

will hopefully interest a wider proportion of the viewers.

 

I have already seen Cato Pass, and enjoyed chatting to you when you visited Weston-super-Mare, so keep up the good work!

 

cheers

 

Kevin 

[melmerby]

I've just had a copy of "Railway Magazine, Guide to Modelling" (November issue)

It's a Freebie newspaper given away at model railway retailers.

 

I think it gives the results away.

I was starting to read one of the articles when I dawned it was commenting on the final result, so I quickly stopped reading to save the spoling effect of watching a competition I already know the result of.

 

Be warned.

 

Keith

[Chris M]

Although this is a competition and winning is obviously nice I don't think the programme is really about winning. I'm not at all keen on best layout or model competitions at shows because everyone who builds something has achieved and quite often the best model isn't the one which has had the most effort or thought put into it. For me the programme is about creative people enthusiastically building a model railway in a few days. Ok, the one which is judged the best gets extra kudos in some folks eyes but being part of the event is what it is really about. Whilst I concur with the judges decisions (based purely on the TV programme) I don't see who won as being all that important and certainly don't hold the winning team in higher regard than the others. For instance, although it was a long way from my interests and preferences, I probably admire the work done by the steampunks most of all so far. I think the right layout won that episode but I was really impressed with what the steampunks achieved; they certainly get 10 out of 10 for creative thinking. I was also impressed with the way the layout looked like it was going to be hopeless at the end of day one but in the end it turned out to look good and be entertaining.

 

Once again, well done to everyone who was part of the teams seen so far.

 

I regret that I couldn't take part this year because I was on holiday for a lot of the time the filming was being done and most of my modelling friends were a bit sniffy about the whole thing anyway. Maybe next year....

[Barry Ten]

So Basingstoke can't be the winners then.

 

Unless it's a subtle way of leaking the much-rumoured Bachmann-Peco merger.

[chuffinghell]

As always I'm looking forward to my Friday evenings motivation, it gives me that kick up the backside I need for the weekend.

 

I just hope I don't have to wait until series 2 to keep going

[JohnR]

As always I'm looking forward to my Friday evenings motivation, it gives me that kick up the backside I need for the weekend.

 

I just hope I don't have to wait until series 2 to keep going

 

I agree. I've got more done the last few weekends than I have done for the last 6 months!

[Pete Thorpe]

Although this is a competition and winning is obviously nice I don't think the programme is really about winning.

I think it may have been mentioned earlier but we felt we were more in competition with the clock than the other teams, shown by the fact that we helped each other out where we could and from what I've read on here that happened in the other heats too.

[Pete Thorpe]

The Basingstoke team will have build something else for the final though. So they could easily have two GMRC layouts at Warley.

 

In fact you could look at it and say that if they did win, they'd be there with the winner, so bringing the Santa one along as well would just need a van capable of carrying both.

 

 

I'm sure if we ask nicely he'd let us borrow his sleigh and a slack handful of reindeer for the weekend.

[ejstubbs]

Looking at Strictly, how can you compare dances, where every contestant has a different dance

 

The judges in Strictly don't compare dances.  They score each dance according to criteria relating to the particular dance style (hence things like points deducted for illegal lifts, legs too straight/not straight enough depending on the style, and so forth) and how well it was executed (level of difficulty attempted/achieved, musicality, whether any mistakes were made, performance value etc).  What they don't do is try directly to compare one couple's waltz to another couple's jive, or even one couple's waltz to another couple's waltz.  That comparison emerges from the scores awarded according to the (supposedly, largely) objective criteria.

 

It's largely unarguable that most members of the Great British Viewing Public will adopt a much more subjective approach to their voting.  In fact they are pretty much encouraged to do so - they are always being told to call or vote online "If you want to see <couple x> dance next week".  No criteria set, just what the viewers "want".  Hence 'comedy'/'novelty' participants like Ed Balls, Mark Benton, Dave Myers, Russell Grant and John Sergeant often end up lasting much longer in the competition than some others who are incontrovertibly better dancers, because the audience votes keep them out of the dance-off week after week.

 

If we're talking difficulty in comparing things, I actually think it's difficult to compare the 'fairness' or otherwise of the results in a show like Strictly which uses a combination of supposedly objective scores and audience vote, versus TGMRC (and Bake-Off) which uses a largely opaque scoring/marking/judging method and, after a bit of flannel between the judges and the presenters, just announces a final decision.

 

Strictly actually has an obligation to be more transparent (note 'more' transparent, not 'completely' transparent) because people spend money voting for their favourites by phone.  That's why they had to introduce the fudge after the semi-final in 2008, when it became clear that a lot of phone votes would inevitably be wasted because of the way the judges had scored the couples during the show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strictly_Come_Dancing#Phone_voting (IIRC they eliminated the three-couple semi-final round in subsequent series, so the final programme of the series always starts with three couples these days).

Edited October 31, 2018 by ejstubbs