South Wales 1960s - would this work

[TomJ]

Apologies for the hand drawn track plan - away on my phone at the moment. I’ve been toying with the idea of a model based on the end of steam in the Welsh Valleys with a BR and NCB industrial element.

However on a recent visit to the Severn Valley Railway I was rather taken by the Highley station and the mining around there. I then found an article with a track plan AndyY had done about Highley.

 

I could build the model based on the SVR but the track plan has interest to me and I wondered if it might work as the basis of a Welsh plan?

 

This would easily work in my scale of N and could be turned into a roundy. I think I’m 8ft I could easily manage 4 coach trains if appropriate and trains of 15 or more mineral wagons which would look ok. I envisage turning it round so at the front the land falls away to the river and behind rises up a hillside and retaining walls to terraced houses etc. The branch leads to a colliery or other NCB facility. Perhaps the NCB locos are allowed to access the goods looo as an exchange siding

 

What do people who know about the Welsh Valleys think. Could this work as a plan?

Thanks

[TomJ]

I don't know why the picture ended upside down - but that's the way I was thinking of modelling it anyway. Just makes the writing even harder to read.

 

As an aside did any stations in the rough area of 'The Valleys' ever have a cattle dock? I know its not the most agricultural area(!) but there's plenty of sheep, and perhaps a little farming??

[DCB]

As we manage 4 coach trains on an 8ft BLT in 00  you should be able to squeeze 7 or 8 and well over 20 wagons into 8ft in  N.   NCB loco would have to be main line registered to run into the loop, a bit unusual  so maybe  separate NCB run round  would be more usual.

[The Johnster]

Agree with the points so far raised.  You need to have a very specified limit to where NCB and BR locos can go, and I'd be happier to see your NCB branch coming in to the siding behind the signal box, which becomes the exchange road, along which both NCB and BR locos are allowed.  No signalling is required, and a spring loaded turnout to access the NCB's line would suffice.  Main line registered NCB locos were not common in South Wales, they are more of a North East thing.

 

Cattle docks were seen in the valleys, especially in the larger towns where there would probably be a slaughterhouse, but my feeling is that this is a village which would be unlikely to boast such a facilty.  An end loading dock which could handle livestock if necessary would be adequate; it may feature the cattle dock type brickwork for cleaning down afterwards but the fencing and pens would probably not be needed, or could be erected temporarily if they were.

 

What you won't have is a coal yard; this all came from landsale yards at the collieries.  You might even justify the occasional loaded mineral wagon in to the colliery for this and loco coal for it's engine.  At a place as small as this, ordinary goods traffic is going to be 'as required' on the daily pickup, but small collieries often needed frequent clearances as space was always limited at the pithead and stocks of empty wagons or full ones waiting transhipment could not be allowed.  Empties are always needed, and a failure to supply them could easily shut an underground face down until they were; there was nowhere to keep the coal at the surface.  So you can have almost as much coal traffic as you like!  

 

Don't forget the occasional 5-planker of pit props inward traffic to the colliery as well.

 

Liking the general look and feel of this, though, very Abergwynfi with overtones of Bargoed and Aberbeeg, even Pontypridd in some ways.  The idea of the mountainside pressing close on the railway with the river eroding the other side explains the lack of space and is very atmospheric.  Keep it bleak and grey, and not too tidy, and don't have too many humans about the place; it's usually raining and nobody hangs about on platforms waiting for trains as they all live close enough to hear them coming anyway.  Suggest humanity by open doors and bicycles leant against walls.

 

You do need sheep though, everywhere and especially where they shouldn't be.  In 00, Scenecraft look skinnier and scraggier than Bachmann's well fed and perfectly groomed plump juicy Romney Marsh show winners, and this is the look you need!  At least one should be raiding a dustbin.

[TomJ]

I’m glad you mentioned Abergwynfi - that was part of my inspiration! Initially I was going for a traditional BLT but a visit to the Severn Valley inspired me for a through station. I think this gives more scope for operation, through freights, pick up goods, colliery traffic, passengers (sometimes passing goods), some of which might terminate. I was thinking of using the station building from Abergwynfi and the goods shed from Glyncorrwyg.

 

I’ll look into the idea of moving the NCB connection. Does it matter that there would be no run round for the NCB - or would it be ok to propel wagons into the siding. Or could the branch be operated by BR with the handover to the colliery loco being further up the branch?

 

I’ve even got a name for this layout - CwmHafren - a nod to its inspiration of course!

[philip-griffiths]

Have you looked at any station diagram for South Wales?

 

RA Cooke diagram books are useful. If you dont have access you can get some inspiration on the signaling record society website.

 

Cattle pens were around south wales, for example, Tredegar had some near the station. It also had an outlet from the Tredegar Company’s own lines to the north of the station platform. Instead of a colliery you could have an NCB depot for the repair of wagons ans locos, this adds to the type of traffic.

 

Regards.

[The Johnster]

Cwm Hafren am byth, then!  

 

The NCB happily propelled stuff all over the place, and the way the exchange would work depends on the direction of the inward traffic's approach.  Assuming it comes from the left of your upside down sketch plan, the BR loco runs in to the loop, runs around, sets back to access the exchange road and propels the train in to it.  It then removes the brake van, to which it is now coupled, and stands aside.  The next move is that an NCB loco runs on to the exchange siding and couples to the rake of empty wagons, and draws them off scene up the colliery branch to the pit.  The BR engine then propels the brake van to the end of the exchange road and withdraws to stand aside again.

 

Some time later, the NCB loco propels a rake of loadeds on to the exchange road, couples them to the van, uncouples itself, and makes a strategic withdrawal onto it's own branch.  It is up to you if if disappears offscene or hangs around waiting for the next rake of empties.  The BR engine couples to the outgoing end of the loaded train, and, allowing time for the guard to examine it and hand the load slip to the driver, whistles for the road to be on it's way.  Another train of empties arrives and the sequence is repeated until the seams underground are economically exhausted or Mrs Thatcher comes to office...

 

Ok, now let's arrive with the empties from the opposite direction, from the right hand end.  The entire train sets back in to the exchange siding, and the brake van is uncoupled.  The BR loco uncouples and stands aside, and the NCB loco couples to the rake and hauls them up to the colliery.  The BR loco now rescues it's isolated brake van and stands aside again; note that the brake van is on the right hand end of the loco.  

 

When the NCB loco returns with the propelled loadeds, it uncouples and withdraws to it's branch as before, but now the brake van is coupled to the BR loco which attaches it to the train, draws the whole lot out and shunts it onto one of the loops, and runs around to attach to the correct end before setting off.  The sequence is repeated as before.  

 

You may be able to devise a situation in which different coal traffic leaves Cwm Hafren in different directions, in which case both methods will be used.  I would be finding it difficult to resist the temptation to include the NCB loco shed and perhaps a landsale siding off their branch as well!  You could, if you wanted, include a weighbridge and a cripple road in addition, but we are perhaps getting a bit crowded now!

[TomJ]

Thanks for that. Definitely worth thinking about. As I said the original plan is based on Highley on the SVR. What is now the link to The Engine House was once the link to Highley colliery and then latterly used as a landsale yard. I’ve no idea how it was worked, the colliery was at the top of an incline, but who’s loco took traffic to the incline I don’t know - and it closed long before my period.

 

So I am definitely thinking of adding a landsale siding on to the NCB branch. I suppose I thought that the loops (except the passenger platform line) could be the exchange sidings, worked by both BR and the NCB. But that would leave the goods shed as part of the exchange set up. A typically derelict NCB engine shed would look good as well, but as you say getting a bit crowded.

 

Would traffic from the colliery be brought out as full length trains or would the industrial shunter bring out a few wagons at a time to be made up into a train in the exchange sidings?

 

Thanks

(I’ve got my hand bandaged up so lots of time for armchalr modelling as opposed to real modelling!!)

PS ‘Severn Valley forever’ indeed!!!

[Zomboid]

I'd expect that the NCB shed would have been at the colliery end with all the rest of their facilities. And in the examples the colliery is downhill from the exchange so that the loco is always at the downhill end of the train. To have the colliery uphill would make shunting a bit more involved, and unlikely on that plan.