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NSE stock running ‘out of area’?


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50's at Picc to me shouts "Saltley Seagulls" to me they had several diagrammes to Picc and back, there were also a few New st turns to Manchester. Vic had an afternoon turn which involved a New st, Glasgow via Manchester. The diesel came of at Preston, that was a regular New st turn.

It's worth noting I don't recall a full NSE red stripe appearing on a tranpennine service however the modifyied NSE with the blue stripe did creep into transpennine sets. The MK1 era occassionally got a bonus 47 non eth or a non eth 31. The Mk2 era was pretty much 31 then 37/4 with very occassional 37's from other sectors standing in, interestingly maintainance was switched to Tinsley as a few of us learnt the route.

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I remember a picture of a 47 in NSE toothpaste "at that well-known South Eastern centre, Sheffield Midland" in an old Platform 5 spotting book . Unfortunately I think it may have been one of the volumes I managed to leave on a train....

 

I have a feeling it may have been one of the former Cambridge line locos. Nominally electrification came in 1985 (I think, from memory) but 47s reappeared a year or two later briefly, - I think because of Liverpool St rebuilding and diversions

Edited by Ravenser
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Don't forget that other NSE out post, Derby for the Matlock and Crewe services. Top'n'tail 20's or the odd solo trip and trio of NSE MK2's for Matlock. Crewe with more conventional pairings with either 3 blue grey mk1's or occassional NSE mk2's , 31's getting in on the act as well.

Edited by w124bob
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I have been spending some time recently looking into the use of NSE rakes of mk. 1 and mk. 2 carriages in the Thames valley in the late 1980s/early 1990s for the purposes of my own layout. What I have found so far is that these sets were frequently used on Paddington to inter-regional services at week-ends. In the 1989 summer timetable, 8 sets would be needed for the Paddington-Oxford fast workings on week-days, but only 4 at week-ends. Some of the other sets would then be used on other trips at week-ends, including London to Birmingham, London to Wolverhampton, London to York and possibly London to Manchester. If you look at a number of the photographs of these workings on Flickr, you will see much use of the NSE sets at week-ends. For example:

 

32415959931_dec0b7da0d_b.jpg50033 At Adderley Park. 1118 Wolves - Paddington.                      23 September 1989. by Ethan  Wilson, on Flickr

 

here,

 

and (I think it can just be made out) here:

 

5589991733_882bc3d953_b.jpg50024 "Vanguard" by GBTransportPhotos, on Flickr

 

The latter photograph is a Paddington to Manchester working, which would have an AC electric north of Birmingham as shown here:

 

20906862200_0a3dc80f36_b.jpg87021 - 1M19 - Berkswell - 23/1/90 by A Neds Perspective, on Flickr

 

and here

 

39006783661_161dde5b76_b.jpgJOHN  MARROW  NO  3 by 50048, on Flickr

 

**

 

The Paddington to Manchester workings tended more often to have the air conditioned mark 2 carriages in InterCity livery, but were usually class 50 hauled to Birmingham up to the end of the 1990 summer timetable (although class 47s were also used) as here:

 

19199105889_735c4dd580_b.jpg50031 - 1M19 - Padd - 12/5/90 by A Neds Perspective, on Flickr

 

31130665832_61aca6445c_b.jpg50024 Oxford by Carl Looker, on Flickr

 

and here, here, here, here:

 

11135740406_580c833896_b.jpg1990-09-04 47819 (Manchester Piccadilly-London Paddington)  Leamington Spa by John Carter, on Flickr

 

The service was not frequent: in the 1989 timetable, there was one Paddington to Manchester train each way on a week-day, none either way on a Saturday and three up and one down trains on a Sunday. NSE stock appears to have been more common for the Paddington to York and Paddington to Carlisle services on week-ends than the Paddington to Manchester services, and much more common on services terminating at Birmingham or Wolverhampton.

Edited by jamespetts
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I find the 50s in Manchester surprising due to route & traction knowledge. I know they started their lives in the North West so some WCML drivers may have remembered them but they had all been refurbished since then, so this would surely have made them different to drive & maintain?

 

I would expect Mk2As & class 47s to vary little between regions so I can understand these wandering away from home a little more.

I used to see 50’s around Doncaster / Leeds on running in turns when Doncaster used to do their repairs.

Though not with red lipstick, i add..

http://www.class50.co.uk/picture/50025c-dr-260781.jpg

 

50’s used to be daily at Birmingham, and occasionally at Crewe, so its not a big stretch to Manchester.

Class 33’s used to have a regular Piccadilly turn for a period too.

I recall a 56 doing a passenger from Piccadilly occasionally when brand new.

 

NSE coaches got everywhere, even Inverness.

 

Looking at that 47819 picture above and wondering whats wrong... its not got the Back cab window lining.

Edited by adb968008
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I remember seeing a set of NSE carriages in Piccadilly and being surprised. I was more astonished when I saw the loco was Sir Edward Elgar in spotless condition.

 

No idea of the date but must have been pretty early for NSE liveried stock as it was newish at the time and I had only seen it in magazines. I would say about 1987ish if pushed.

 

 

 

 

Jason

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My uncle was a fitter at Donny plant and the 50’s were indeed reasonably common around there. I’ve got one of his photos somewhere showing a 50 freshly out shopped and in use on a proving train at Doncaster station in undercoat!

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I remember seeing a set of NSE carriages in Piccadilly and being surprised. I was more astonished when I saw the loco was Sir Edward Elgar in spotless condition.

 

No idea of the date but must have been pretty early for NSE liveried stock as it was newish at the time and I had only seen it in magazines. I would say about 1987ish if pushed.

 

 

 

 

Jason

This day?

https://flic.kr/p/XPchsA

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As I said in an earlier post, a 50 at Picc would be a Brummy on an out and back diagramme or a bit of rearranging by control to put a Brummy in the seat. Longsight drivers unless they were ex Crewe never had traction knowledge of class 50's,Don't forget Crewe Manchester was a very early 25kv scheme. Interestingly Newton Heath drivers did have 50 knowledge, right upto '75 it was possible to see a 50 at Vic on various Anglo Scottish workings in and out of Vic and Lime st. 33's at Picc would be exclusively on the Picc Cardiff service so a Crewe driver in the seat.

Edited by w124bob
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I don't think so.

 

I can't remember going to Manchester around that date. I think it was more an Autumn or late Summer day and I'm pretty certain it had NSE carriages. But you know what memories are like, it was 30 years ago.  :O 

 

 

Proves that it made it to Manc and I wasn't totally imagining it though. :)

 

Here's another photo of the same train.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/17149624745

 

The loco itself wasn't exactly a stranger as I had already seen it a few times including at Birkenhead of all places.

 

 

Jason

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Although earlier than the OP's time period, a pair of 33s made it to Manchester Piccadilly in either 1987 or 1988. 

 

If I recall correctly a 47 had failed on a morning Poole - Manchester service and was replaced by 2 x 33s on the run to Birmingham.  Rather than coming off at New Street the pair worked through to Piccadilly, took the ECS to Liverpool Lime Street and then worked a south coast service back in the afternoon.  I was on the train from New Street to Wolverhampton, and somewhere have pictures of the locos at and leaving Wolverhampton. 


 

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Although earlier than the OP's time period, a pair of 33s made it to Manchester Piccadilly in either 1987 or 1988. 

 

If I recall correctly a 47 had failed on a morning Poole - Manchester service and was replaced by 2 x 33s on the run to Birmingham.  Rather than coming off at New Street the pair worked through to Piccadilly, took the ECS to Liverpool Lime Street and then worked a south coast service back in the afternoon.  I was on the train from New Street to Wolverhampton, and somewhere have pictures of the locos at and leaving Wolverhampton.

 

33s were a daily occurence for a while, maybe not weekends. A pair is interesting though.

Very early 1980’s i saw 56s work passenger to Piccadilly when they were brand new, indeed thats how i saw my very first 56. Where / when they were going ive no idea and i dont think it lasted long, i seem to think it was Sheffield and it was more than 1 occasion.

Would be interested to know of class 56s being used on passenger work in their early days.

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33s were a daily occurence for a while, maybe not weekends. A pair is interesting though.

Very early 1980’s i saw 56s work passenger to Piccadilly when they were brand new, indeed thats how i saw my very first 56. Where / when they were going ive no idea and i dont think it lasted long, i seem to think it was Sheffield and it was more than 1 occasion.

Would be interested to know of class 56s being used on passenger work in their early days.

 

Interesting. I saw a Youtube video recently in Reading of a 33, taken circa 1987. It was shown backing onto some Mk. 2/mk.1 Inter-City stock and heading out towards Reading West. No further details were given. May I ask where the 33s ran to and when they were used?

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Yes Class 33s were regulars in the North West. They used to work up from Cardiff.

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/crewecardiff.html

 

I used to get the Liverpool to Sheffield train home sometimes so I could experience loco hauled trains. The usual loco was a Class 31, but once I got a Class 33 deputising. Unfortunately I had to get off at Hunts Cross.

 

Pretty good for the price of the old Saveaway tickets that we had in Merseyside.

 

 

 

Jason

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Interesting. I saw a Youtube video recently in Reading of a 33, taken circa 1987. It was shown backing onto some Mk. 2/mk.1 Inter-City stock and heading out towards Reading West. No further details were given. May I ask where the 33s ran to and when they were used?

 

All over the Southern Region and on trains that originated on it. Started to appear from 1959 and some are still about. Most were withdrawn in the late 1980s though.

 

They were the SRs main locomotive and were used on everything from express passenger to ballast trains.

 

 

This will give you a better idea.

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/class33.html

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/class33b.html

 

 

 

Jason

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Interesting. I saw a Youtube video recently in Reading of a 33, taken circa 1987. It was shown backing onto some Mk. 2/mk.1 Inter-City stock and heading out towards Reading West. No further details were given. May I ask where the 33s ran to and when they were used?

In the early 1980s we used to get a few 33s at New Street on trains from the SR, usually deputising for a 47, but also on Friday afternoons in summer there was one booked to New Street on a Portsmouth Harbour to Leeds train.

 

These weren't their first regular booked services to Birmingham as they worked through from Fawley to Bromford Bridge via Lickey on the Esso tanks in the early 1960s.

Edited by TheSignalEngineer
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The infamous Brighton to Manchester Cross Country service used to frequently run through the Birmingham New Street with anything the Southern Region could find as the booked 47's were forever breaking down, particularly in the final years.  A pair of 73's made it all the way there once, things got that desperate!!

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The infamous Brighton to Manchester Cross Country service used to frequently run through the Birmingham New Street with anything the Southern Region could find as the booked 47's were forever breaking down, particularly in the final years.  A pair of 73's made it all the way there once, things got that desperate!!

 

Very interesting. Was this service still running in 1989?

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Indeed it was.  This website may be of interest to you about this infamous service and its unexpected guest locos that appeared from time to time:

http://www.1s76.com/

 

1O66 Manchester to Brighton was my regular morning commute for the last couple of years it ran. by then it was a Virgin XC set + 47 and finally a Voyager, or two if they had enough for all of the services.

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Very interesting. Was this service still running in 1989?

 from 1995 to 1999 I worked in an office block overlooking East Croydon. Used to have a grandstand view of the 10.02 northbound, the lunchtime train to Brighton, and the 15.02 afternoon working.

 

happy days indeed.

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Slightly out of era.

 

But I recommend this DVD as it shows a lot of these trains in the late 1990s. Still plenty of loco hauled passenger trains, some of which we have discussed.

 

 

https://www.dukevideo.com/prdGUDVD6141/Railway-Diaries-Across-England-Triple-DVD-Set?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqZOR2tuD3gIVLrHtCh09rgwmEAQYAiABEgLOYPD_BwE

 

 

 

Jason

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Interesting. I saw a Youtube video recently in Reading of a 33, taken circa 1987. It was shown backing onto some Mk. 2/mk.1 Inter-City stock and heading out towards Reading West. No further details were given. May I ask where the 33s ran to and when they were used?

I think some of the trains on the Birmingham-Oxford-Reading-Southampton axis changed loco at Reading to/from a 33 for the Southern Region end of the journey, although I thought that was somewhat earlier, i.e. in the late 70s/early 80s.

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I have been spending some time recently looking into the use of NSE rakes of mk. 1 and mk. 2 carriages in the Thames valley in the late 1980s/early 1990s for the purposes of my own layout. What I have found so far is that these sets were frequently used on Paddington to inter-regional services at week-ends. In the 1989 summer timetable, 8 sets would be needed for the Paddington-Oxford fast workings on week-days, but only 4 at week-ends. Some of the other sets would then be used on other trips at week-ends, including London to Birmingham, London to Wolverhampton, London to York and possibly London to Manchester. If you look at a number of the photographs of these workings on Flickr, you will see much use of the NSE sets at week-ends.

 

The service was not frequent: in the 1989 timetable, there was one Paddington to Manchester train each way on a week-day, none either way on a Saturday and three up and one down trains on a Sunday. NSE stock appears to have been more common for the Paddington to York and Paddington to Carlisle services on week-ends than the Paddington to Manchester services, and much more common on services terminating at Birmingham or Wolverhampton.

 

Can't remember the dates, but nobody seems to have mentioned the Mk1 NSE rake that worked summer Saturdays OOC to Poole (ecs), then Poole to Carlisle, returning to Paddington on the Sunday.

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