Shapeways - improvements, AND problems

[rue_d_etropal]

Thinking about getting websites set up,, and in the short term(?) just passing SW e-shop  details would be enough. That only involves sending details to UK model shop website and costs nothing. As I said, if there are enough, then Adrian will set up a 3D printing designers page. .

Link here http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/form/supplier

[rue_d_etropal]

Has anybody seen the "3D tools" link for things like setting the orientation of FDP prints? It seems to have gone missing from the model-editing pages.  

 

EDIT: found on the SW forum that they're removed the link from the per-model page and added it to the list-of-models page. This seems like poor ergonomics.

 

BTW, the cheapest orientation for FDP prints still seems to be stood on end with all the support-wax issues that entails. One has to track down the 3D tools link to correct each model uploaded.

Inow understand the problem. Saw your message on SW forum concerning how to make a design available to sell. If they had simply used te word 'sell' instead of 'create' it would have been easier.

so now they have blocked 3D tools for items which are 'for sale', they say to stop us messing up an item, but that sounds coblers. You can still use it for new items.

I know some like to think of every problem as a conspiracy, and sometimes errors are deliberate, but in this case, I am pretty sure it is total incompetance , and who ever modifyin their software obviously does not know how to. Things have not changed.

I think part of the problem might be that they are trying to use some package, not writing their system from scratch, as there are a number of very similar deign features on their new version, or another I use for my own website when I have to upload.

Trouble is that like far too many organisations, they are not properly managing their software, which has probably been outsourced, or just given to someon who has the time to do it, rather than using proper IT staff. I still make mistakes, but I am on my own so it is not practical to get a second opinion, which is what they require for any of their proposed changes, from analysis, coding through to testing.

 

Just had another look, and it is only 'live' items which have 3D tools blocked. I suspect that if you turn an item off(ie not for sale) then 3D tools are unblocked. Can't see where there problem is, unless they know there is a dangerous bug in the software.

Edited October 23, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[SpoorObjecten]

3D tools allows you to scale a model and use the wall thickness fixer.

 

By using either of those 2 on models that are currently for sale and publicly available (and thus have the old pricing grandfathered) will mean it updates to a newer version and thus the old price changes to the new pricing structure.

To prevent people from accidentally doing that, it was locked.

 

As you mention you can take your public model offline and the 3D tools page will work just fine (tho taking the model offline means it will get repriced)

[rue_d_etropal]

3D tools allows you to scale a model and use the wall thickness fixer.

 

By using either of those 2 on models that are currently for sale and publicly available (and thus have the old pricing grandfathered) will mean it updates to a newer version and thus the old price changes to the new pricing structure.

To prevent people from accidentally doing that, it was locked.

 

As you mention you can take your public model offline and the 3D tools page will work just fine (tho taking the model offline means it will get repriced)

I thought it might be something like this, but if SW had actually sent out information telling people this, and where buttons were moving to, there would not have been the panic there has been.

Until I found the comment on the SW forum, which I had to search for, I was searching around the SW website for information about the changes and found nothing useful. That is the big problem with SW at the moment.It just needs someoe to realise that. Everything else is fine and rosy(well mainly), and can be handled. Public perseption is important, and if people are getting the wrong message, just maybe some work needs to be done to make sure the correct message is being sent out.

[Knuckles]

Baaa, deleted all this whine.

 

Figured it out at last.

 

Shouldn't be so awkward though.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Knuckles

[Guy Rixon]

In the three-dot menu for each product on the model list, there's a link to make it into a product. This seems to work as expected; I've just been using it.

 

BTW: if one uploaded a model and bought a test-print before the price increase, then makes it product after, the product gets the new-scale prices with the price floor. Pity.

[Knuckles]

I'm finding for my FUD bodyshells they are a LOT cheaper. Doing dummy upload tests and price comparisons.

 

Anything that is cheaper will be getting re-uploaded. We are talking £20-30 cheaper no joke.

[Edwardian]

I'm finding for my FUD bodyshells they are a LOT cheaper. Doing dummy upload tests and price comparisons.

 

Anything that is cheaper will be getting re-uploaded. We are talking £20-30 cheaper no joke.

 

That's good news for me (and you!)

[Spitfire2865]

I'm finding for my FUD bodyshells they are a LOT cheaper. Doing dummy upload tests and price comparisons.

 

Anything that is cheaper will be getting re-uploaded. We are talking £20-30 cheaper no joke.

How does that work out when you factor in the new shipping speeds and quotes?

Strange to have such a sharp decrease in price. 

Ive only had time to check a couple of my designs through reuploads and from what I saw, the only thing that went down slightly was silver, which is of no use to me.  

Brass OTOH went up sharply.  

[Knuckles]

No idea on shipping. I have not checked and that is out of my control either way. However, as I wrote above re-uploads will be happening as that is in my control and for alot of things the changes are favourable for once.

 

Some items work out more as you described.

 

For me at least, so far good.

[rue_d_etropal]

It has nowgone too far. I need to update a design which went live before the 22nd, but it now comes up with a message that I can't!!!!!  I will try goiing round the houses, making it un-live, updating, then making live again!!!

Trying to stop designers from acccidentally updating items actually makes it far more difficult,

 

Yes that now works, but have to make item un-live, then update, the back-page(no direct link to edit!!!) and make it live again.

Now if the message had come up ar start of update rather than end, I would not have wasted my time waiting to see if it got updated OK.

 

In fairness, having to make a design un-live before updating actually makes good sense in all cases, so that errors can be double checked.

 

Overall the system is better, but big problem is still that SW have not told us what exactly is changing, and how to navigate around new system. Simple good cistomer service. I know documentation is always at the bottom of the pile of things to do, but it is still very important.

Edited October 25, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[SpoorObjecten]

Message from the UX team:

 

Hey thank you for voicing your concerns and sharing your workflows. This is all helpful for our future development. I’ll take this opportunity to give some background on our thinking and how we’re seeing the next steps.

The new upload experience was built with both existing and new users in mind, and especially for those buying their own models. The vast majority of our customers upload and buy 3D prints for themselves. In our testing, the new Upload experience offered clear improvement for people buying their own designs. It also gave us a platform to offer more post-processing options and other material options in a way a single list couldn’t. This is becoming even more important as we build out our offering and keep adding new 3D printing technologies.

You’ve voiced real concerns from a Shop Owner’s perspective, and we want to improve things and we are listening and responding. Here’s our next top 3 improvements to the Upload experience:

• Bringing back the ability to rename files (also to My Models)
• Ability to create new products, and open linked products (for Shop Owners only)
• Ability to jump to 3D tools (for Shop Owners only)

Here’s an example of these features might look like in the Upload experience (not final and subject to change).

 

 

[rue_d_etropal]

The rename files option is actually still partly there, as I was able to change title, but it did not then appear on 'My Models'.

The jump to 3D tools does need to be there, but I don't quite understand the middle one.

 

As I found, having to set a design to 'not available to sell' , ie not live, initially a nuisance but from a practical point of view might actually be a very good idea. Although it is unlikely someon would order something mid way through updating, it could happen. If I was to find a modification was not correct I would want to fix t before it was made available.Just have to remember to set it back to live afterwards.

[Knuckles]

90% of the time when I'm updating a design I usually click it as not for sale anyway.

 

I suppose if someone does order a design whilst updating they'd get the old one. As long as the update wasn't critical

such as a tweaked re-upload due to one of the dreaded 'Shapeways Middle Finger Order Cancellations' it wouldn't matter or be an issue.

 

The 'first to try' thing I've given up on even bothering with due to the past trouble that has been had so every now and then I update some of my models to improve things if I see a good reason.

Thankfully to give credit, things seem a LOT more consistent at going through lately and I'm hoping things stay this way.

 

All those previous ideas of giving designers time to rectify a design before the customer gets a middle finger is really a great and needed thing if it can be implemented properly.

[rue_d_etropal]

I wouldn't like to guarantee what would happen if an item was been modified/updated at same time as someoe attempting to order it. This is why data normally gets locked when one person is updating it(that could be the designer making a modification, or someone putting in an order). As it is not quite like a normal ordering system, where stock levels are checked and updated but in many ways it shoud be handled same way.I would rather see a lock being applied(ie designer only being able to upload  if item not set 'for sale').

 

If I am actually fixing a problem then i do normally set an ite to not for sale, but for quick updates I usually have not bothered. That is lazy , and I should not be doing it. Database security/integrety is important and any risk f corruption of data shoud be avoided. Enough problems out of my control that can occur.

[Quarryscapes]

How the hell do you set something as for sale these days, or even do anything with a 3D model once uploaded?

[Spitfire2865]

How the hell do you set something as for sale these days, or even do anything with a 3D model once uploaded?

You have to go BACK to 3D models, clock on the 3 dots, THEN click make a product, but dont then delete the product if you want to make a change bc that then breaks that file and you have to start again.

 

Yes, Its a stupid convoluted process that would have been better if they left it alone. 

[Quarryscapes]

You have to go BACK to 3D models, clock on the 3 dots, THEN click make a product, but dont then delete the product if you want to make a change bc that then breaks that file and you have to start again.

 

Yes, Its a stupid convoluted process that would have been better if they left it alone. 

 

What a ballache, found it, uploaded new sprued model as the price had more than doubled to be told I can't update it to preserve pricing! Now uploaded as new model! I'm very slowly getting round to reuploading my 16mm scale stuff and linking to the website. 

[Spitfire2865]

What a ballache, found it, uploaded new sprued model as the price had more than doubled to be told I can't update it to preserve pricing! Now uploaded as new model! I'm very slowly getting round to reuploading my 16mm scale stuff and linking to the website. 

Id say you take the time to upload to one of Shapeways Competitor sites, as I doubt THEY would pull this stunt.  If we can even call it a stunt seeing as its their new business model...

[Knuckles]

I also had to delete some models and re-upload them fresh to sort the updates out. Stupid.

 

I also finally gave in and purchased the Anycubic Photon DLP so lets see where this leads!

[rue_d_etropal]

Systems will always change, but in pre-internet days , if you did not properly inform your users, then they could come round and tell you face to face what was wrong with the way you have changed the system, and make your life very uncomfortable. It is not just SW, but a tendecy to not properly inform users of their website what has changed(preferably in advance), and have decent documentation to tell users how to use the modifed system. It happens with Facebook, it happens with various Micosoft systems, and it would probably happen with other companies in the 3D printing world.

 

I had not seen the new production times , but even 4 weeks is a lot better that 4 years for Bachmann to get a new model in the shops.

 

Overall, it is still a lot better than what SW provided 4-5 years ago.

[rue_d_etropal]

It looks like SW have now got an almost completely working system of allowing designers to fix problems without orders being cancelled. Only problem is that tey are also sending out message to say item has been cancelled because of problem. When I uploaded a new version, I got an email to say item would now be printed, so I presume it will, unless they find another problem.

[rue_d_etropal]

Well that was interesting. I like the new option which allows rejected items to be put on hold, then reprinted when the designer uploads a fixed item, but unfortunately they are not offering that by default. I have just had a long online conversation with their cutomer support(I think in New York), and finally got them to dmit it might be a problem. I had a customer order a couple of my coaches , both virtually the same, but there was a very very minor error(they had printed OK before), but for one I got the 'action required' message and the oher got rejected. As both messages had exactly the same date stamp I had not noticed they were for for different models, but still fixed both(and some other simlar ones with same potential problem), uploaded the new designs, getting round the various hurdles Shapeways have in place(hopefully only temporary).

Irny is that if they had not started to use the new system, and both had been rejected, I would still have done the fixes, but would have then suggested to the customer that they shouldreorder them ad add to the rest of the order so they would be delivered in same order without any additionalpostage cost.

Hopefully all sorted out now, and I would recommend talking to customer service about any problems and not be fobbed off. Be reasonable and you might actually get system improved But don't expect prices to go down, it won't, but maybe they might inform us a bit better than they have done in the past.

 

Given that it is Black Friday coming up, expect them to be busy, which possibly makes it a bad time for them to be introducng a new system.Pick a quiet time of year, not this time of year.

[Spitfire2865]

It seems no one at SHAPEways knows how to properly implement change.  

[rue_d_etropal]

Not sure what is going on now but wonder if anyone else has been having problems editing items(new ones in particular) , making them available to buy.

I have also had a few problems logging on, so switched browsers, which initially worked but then I a geting items set to 'Private Pending Review'. Sounds like something is broken.

 

Also who ever allowed such a big upgrade to their system just before what must be ther busy time, ie Christmas, should be looking for another job.