Godstone Road - Platforms and 3rd Rail

[westerhamstation]

Hi La Cathedrale, this link might be of some interest to you

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65199-bromley-north/

All the best Adrian.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

This is also rather nice.

 

 

EM gauge too.

[Lacathedrale]

Indeed, both very nice layouts. I'm really not all that fussed about multiple units, the only reason I'd even consider including 4CEP/4CIG/2HAP is because I've ridden around on them as a kid - they will most definitely play second fiddle to loco hauled services. Yes I'm aware this is a bit of a trope.

 

With regard to scenics I think on reflection unless something changes in the meantime, I'm going to err on the side of caution and use the older SR posts and a subtle buff/champagne colour on the woodwork - this way I can depict the station in the late 70's (with 16T minerals, Class 71's, etc.) and the mid-late 80's (with Speedlink coal hoppers and displaced Class 37s) with mostly just changing stock and a couple of swappable buildings.

 

My Hattons order arrived and I've started cutting up the Class 33, but they sent me a BCK instead of BSK - none of my notes show a BCK in any rakes of less than 5 coaches in the 80's. I'd rather not faff around sending it back, but I don't think I can justify keeping it - any thoughts?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Send it back and swap for a BSK?  Bit annoying though.  

[Lacathedrale]

Looks like a BCK in BR(S) acted as swing stock, not assigned to particular sets or services - so doesn't seem wholly out of scope, particularly with my standard 'short' rakes of BSK-CK-BSK. I found Hattons had some more of those Lima PGA's, so nabbed them (and a BSK, SK and GUV with corresponding wheels - don't judge me).

 

Still no sight of any track.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

And hattons have cocked up the order again. Great. They offer same-day dispatch and next day delivery but can't seem to pull it off. They also have used stock listed but no ability to find the items.

 

On the bright side, my cork, sculptamold and tile grout has arrived (the latter conspicuously small packets) so it's time to start laying out the ground contours.

 

 

Is it a bad idea to cut/fit platforms in place at this point? I feel like I'm skirting with peril because I've got no real trackwork to check alignments and I'll be working entirely off the templot plan - but given that I'll be building all the track off aforementioned plan it hardly seems like it'll be an issue? Unless I hear a compelling argument ot the contrary it's just going to be some 18mm ply cut to shape.

 

Also, I started re-working my Lima 33 - here's a pic with the motor and wheels replaced.

[KDG]

Don't cut your platforms yet, wait until you've laid the track and tested it first. You might find you don't like it, or it doesn't work operationally, or it's operationally boring and you want to rip it up.

[73c]

 

Found this on youtube. Fast forward to about 18 minutes, gets you to Hither Green. Passed by the Bromley popper showing 1 white 1 red on route box at Sundridge Park. Running into Bromley North can see the 'missing' signal head.

Edited October 25, 2018 by 73c

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

 

Also, I started re-working my Lima 33 - here's a pic with the motor and wheels replaced.

 

Where did you get your EM geared wheels?  Are they a drop in replacement?  I could be tempted to give EM a shot if there's no engineering involved.

[Lacathedrale]

DGF, Ultrascale do drop-in replacement sets - old wheels pop off the axles and the new ones slide on. DCC concepts do multi packs of wheels ending up at about £2 per able. Diesels are just easy mode! I also decided to replace the motor in the bogie just for kicks and even with that it only took about an hour all told. C&L seems to be a bit lost at the wheel but they are one of many places that do EM gauge flex track, and you can buy points from Marcway for only £3 more than the Peco equivalent.

 

Lovely video 73c - looks like the very cusp of NSE (going past Hither green depot you can see some stopped, LB is painted, etc.)? Thanks again for that, fascinating link.

 

How brown everything does look (Waterloo east at 2:34).

Lots of Jaffa cake liveried stock - I can't remembr that at all.

Intersting bit of trivia, the platform remnant at 10:12 is the old spa road platform, the original terminus of the London & Greenwich

One of my childhood homes is about 100yds to the left at 16:29 (used to walk over the bridge with my dad to sit outside the pub) and the other just beyond the trees to the left at 19:18 - where I heard the cromptons during the night.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

DGF, Ultrascale do drop-in replacement sets - old wheels pop off the axles and the new ones slide on. DCC concepts do multi packs of wheels ending up at about £2 per able. Diesels are just easy mode! I also decided to replace the motor in the bogie just for kicks and even with that it only took about an hour all told. C&L seems to be a bit lost at the wheel but they are one of many places that do EM gauge flex track, and you can buy points from Marcway for only £3 more than the Peco equivalent.

 

 

Did you replace the motor using one of these kits from Diesel-Trains?

 

On the residential brainiac weekend just gone I did spend time mulling over buying a cheapo Lima 50, replacing the bogies with those off a Lime 37, rebuilding the cab using etched parts and so on.  This was because you seemed to be having fun with your 33 rebuild, and Hornby 50s are a) flipping expensive and b) not that accurate anyway, apparently.  i don't want to be hacking at north of 150 quids worth of model... But I recall the Lima models of my youth as being nice looking, but sh1te runners.  I still have a part finished 87 in a box somewhere.  Off loaded the others a long long time ago.

 

EM would get past the toy train track of Peco, but you're not having much luck with purchasing C&L track so far?  What about the other gang in town, Exactoscale?  Aren't they available from the EMGS?  I may join the EMGS, its only £20...

Edited October 26, 2018 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Lacathedrale]

Did you replace the motor using one of these kits from Diesel-Trains?

 

On the residential brainiac weekend just gone I did spend time mulling over buying a cheapo Lima 50, replacing the bogies with those off a Lime 37, rebuilding the cab using etched parts and so on.  This was because you seemed to be having fun with your 33 rebuild, and Hornby 50s are a) flipping expensive and b) not that accurate anyway, apparently.  i don't want to be hacking at north of 150 quids worth of model... But I recall the Lima models of my youth as being nice looking, but sh1te runners.  I still have a part finished 87 in a box somewhere.  Off loaded the others a long long time ago.

 

EM would get past the toy train track of Peco, but you're not having much luck with purchasing C&L track so far?  What about the other gang in town, Exactoscale?  Aren't they available from the EMGS?  I may join the EMGS, its only £20...

 

This is the exact item I used: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153225205609?ViewItem=&item=153225205609 - it's all the same old stuff. It seems alot better but I hasten to add I'm just zooming it across the desk at the moment. Even if it doesn't turn out to be a massive success I'm having GREAT fun with chopping up the 33 and if it all goes wrong then so what? As you say it's not £150 of loco. I can't help you with a 50 but I've got a bundle of 31 parts if that's any help at all?

 

The chap who runs C&L is a bit overrun so you need to order it online and then call him to confirm the order; after that the dispatch time is normally a week or so. Exactoscale is being reborn as a separate concern from C&L but AFAIK isn't yet up and running, but should be in a month or two. I've joined the EMGS so will let you know if anything interesting occurs there?

[Charlie75]

This is looking like a great layout/project, which I shall be following with great interest.

 

Although the era you are modelling is within that of my personal choice, 80's to early 90's, the location you're modelling I'm unfamiliar with. I will certainly be visiting this thread to see the layout take shape.

 

I'm in the early stages of planning a layout myself, and have spent many hours looking at layout threads and photos on the Internet for inspiration.

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks - I can only suggest and encourage you to get started; 'truth is but a maxim until you have felt it upon your own pulse'  (paraphrased from Keats, etc.) i.e. the act of experience is worth alot of research. At least, I am finding that out.

 

Here's the latest progress on the 33. The lima model comes with bolted roof panels and a silencer, both of which were replaced with catches and a straight exhaust respectively. It also has a very undersized roof fan, so that's what I spent the last hour or so fixing. You can't really see, but under the grill there's a fan on a spindle with 'walls' around it and a hub ontop. Oh well! I think the next time I fit these brass panels I will make sure the corners are over-curved rather than under, but I think some primer and paint will help:

 

 

I was about to say 'oh well I think I'm done now' - but I need to shave off and replace the grab rails with some nickel silver wire, scratch build some cabs, replace the buffers and detail the buffer beam, and give it a coat of primer. I don't think I'm going to fit lighting to my rebuilds, so won't drill out the headlights but I'll leave the decoder wires in-situ just incase.

[Geep7]

Thanks - I can only suggest and encourage you to get started; 'truth is but a maxim until you have felt it upon your own pulse' (paraphrased from Keats, etc.) i.e. the act of experience is worth alot of research. At least, I am finding that out.

 

Here's the latest progress on the 33. The lima model comes with bolted roof panels and a silencer, both of which were replaced with catches and a straight exhaust respectively. It also has a very undersized roof fan, so that's what I spent the last hour or so fixing. You can't really see, but under the grill there's a fan on a spindle with 'walls' around it and a hub ontop. Oh well! I think the next time I fit these brass panels I will make sure the corners are over-curved rather than under, but I think some primer and paint will help:

 

 

I was about to say 'oh well I think I'm done now' - but I need to shave off and replace the grab rails with some nickel silver wire, scratch build some cabs, replace the buffers and detail the buffer beam, and give it a coat of primer. I don't think I'm going to fit lighting to my rebuilds, so won't drill out the headlights but I'll leave the decoder wires in-situ just incase.

I'm not entirely sure when (maybe when the roofs were modified), but by the late 70's the Class 33's had their lights painted over, and only the headcode was used, until the sealed beam headlights were fitted.

[73c]

 

The missing signal head. Bit wet this morning, so didn't venture passed the end of the canopy.

[meld]

Lovely album, is it yours? You even got the signal box at Hayes - which I may shamelessly steal depending on how I nail down the era for the layout - maybe a swap-in section for Bromley North's plate layers hut depending on the era.

 

Hi, No it's not my Album, turned up the picture on a Flickr search.

 

Yes, the track layout in that picture is as it is currently.

 

The "Hayes" Picture isn't Hayes, I Believe it to be Addiscombe box. Hayes Box was to the left side of the Up line much where the Relay room is today.

 

The platform Curves the wrong way and the industry is where the road under the railway and Football fields are at Hayes!!

 

HTH.

 

Meld

[Lacathedrale]

Gotcha, I was quite taken by how cute it was

 

I'm modelling 33056 based off this photo so the headlights will be in-situ even if they're unused. There are some interesting nuances: almost no rust but lots of dust, the roof being the same colour as the floor of the depot, and the ends of the handrails being painted in the colour of the body where they connect. My order of S&W couplings arrived, so I guess I'd better start thinking about buffer beam detailing and working around that, shouldn't I?

 

I've got the rails replaced on one end and it's looking really good. I had a bit of a mare getting the holes pinpointedly level but hopefully that's not too noticeable. It was very simple - 0.45mm drill bit, 0.45mm nickel silver wire and some flat nose pliers and job done.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi, No it's not my Album, turned up the picture on a Flickr search.

 

Yes, the track layout in that picture is as it is currently.

 

The "Hayes" Picture isn't Hayes, I Believe it to be Addiscombe box. Hayes Box was to the left side of the Up line much where the Relay room is today.

 

The platform Curves the wrong way and the industry is where the road under the railway and Football fields are at Hayes!!

 

HTH.

 

Meld

???

 

The only picture that I have seen on this thread labelled as Hayes IS DEFINITELY Hayes.

[Lacathedrale]

???

 

The only picture that I have seen on this thread labelled as Hayes IS DEFINITELY Hayes.

 

It is linked in the Flickr album which contains the railtour shots of Bromley North, rather than being explicitly shown in the thread.

 

I put together a system diagram, the inferred sections are of course for the moment entirely fictional and subject to change. I like the idea of figuring out the interlocking and linking the signals together - posted the below into as a first attempt into the Signalling subforum.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Some more Prototype inspiration:

• Another gorgeous shot of Purley before the 2005 rebuild showing a pair of Cromptons - one delivering a SINGLE speedlink HEA, the other with a tiny engineer's train. Great fodder for Godstone Rd: https://www.flickr.com/photos/151904976@N08/30442109487/in/pool-4507868@N24/ - I'll be using this for my colour and platform references, for sure.
• The Kenny Belle, the last scheduled loco hauled service on the Southern region? https://www.flickr.com/photos/frinton/44441172964/in/pool-4507868@N24/
• The bay platform at West Croydon facing down and away from London - a 2EPB shuttle service on a very secondary branch-of-a-branch and the prototypical justification for my original platform layout. https://www.flickr.com/photos/frinton/44251737665/in/pool-4507868@N24/
• The 73 in this shot is backing up into the observation saloons mentioned on the coach formation page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jbg06003/31414716361/in/pool-4507868@N24/
• 33 on parcels duty at LB, showing just how filthy the parcels stock was, compared to the locos https://www.flickr.com/photos/railpics-online/44140657055/in/pool-4507868@N24/
• Probably too early for my era, but a 73 on parcels duty with a full BG? https://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/25760733417/in/pool-4507868@N24/
• Finally, an 09 'on shed' which is my justification for future addition. I gather it's an 09 rather than an 08 because of the rather lengthy run between New Cross Gate or wherever this fellow came from? https://www.flickr.com/photos/d33206hg/5294635224/in/pool-4507868@N24/

Edited October 27, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[meld]

_{At he risk of being shouted at again .... my reply was in reply to the OP from my original reply regarding the signals at Bromley North where I had found, via a Flickr search a colour picture of a class 73 and 8 TC rail tour that had visited Bromley North in 1979 and it showed the assembled tour participants  thronged around the London End of the platform taking picture of the said locomotive and Train, it also showed the signal that was being asked about at that time.}

 

_{The OP asked a few questions in his reply to that posting and I replied in order to him in my previous reply.}

 

_{Here is the flickr link to the specific picture that myself and the OP were discussing in that posting  .... https://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelmenzies/23119070384/in/album-72157660059551974/}

 

_{My Information on the positioning of the Ex Hayes signal box is correct however and in the only picture of Hayes in this thread you would be very hard pressed to actually see the signal box controlling Hayes as it was a NX panel in London Bridge at the time and is now Controlled from TBROC!}

 

_{With that said I shall gracefully retire from the thread and enjoy the sights of London Bridge and TBROC controlled signals for the next 9 odd hours in peace and quite.}

 

_{To The OP good luck with your layout build it shall watch on with interest on this project.}

 

_MELD 

[Lacathedrale]

Meld, I'm sorry you feel that way - please don't let a misunderstanding preclude you from joining in, your contributions were most helpful and welcome.

 

Yesterday I laid out the scenic base for the station throat - 3mm cork laid under the track plan and glued with decorator's PVA and then sculptamold to bring the baseboard boundaries up to the edge of the cork in a smooth line. This isn't a US mainline so the cess isn't very tall, but it will be noticable. After that, I whacked on some brown emulsion (Homebase 'Chocolat') and sprinkled on some light brown and chocolate-coloured tile grout. Lastly, a spritz with some water and dots of PVA. Of course, it has been extremely cold since I did that so nothing has cured - the below image shows the state of play.

 

 

 

Hopefully this captures the 'flat-but-not' nature of real life and is subtle enough to not look like a cliff-face. It doesn't look like much, but the elevation from the rail-head (ruler) to the front corner is a scale 3' or so, over a distance of roughly 15'. Speaking of which, the plan is for that little hill in the back to provide some height variation behind the gravel building, which will sit where the glue/fillter pots are, it'll be a right mess of brambles.

 

I was planning to use 18mm ply for the platforms, but I'm starting to doubt my ability to be able to cut such long, smooth arcs with a jigsaw. Any tips? If not that, then what should I use? The thickness of the ballast and subroadbed is 5mm and I believe the full height of the flextrack is around 3mm.

[Regularity]

18mm ply will add a lot of weight to your boards. Why not build up the platforms using 1mm card?

[Geep7]

Might I suggest using square section balsa or hardwood for the platform sides, faced with plasticard, topped off with balsa or plasticard for the surface. Lightweight, and pretty strong.

[Lacathedrale]

Good point/s - Hobbycraft has got the relevant lengths of balsa and sheet, so I'll aim at that.

 

Yesterday has been a rather expensive day - I ordered all of the bits required for controlling the layout - after my £5 Hornby trainset controller tripped on a short and wouldn't come back and this issue with the LaisDCC controller I decided to just go on head-first. Digikiejs are a norwegian company which specialise in DCC and automation, their stuff looks more like IoT and embedded devices than the polished aluminium of Lenz or Digitrax - but it has huge levels of functionality and interconnectivity and is above all affordable.

 

I got a DR5000, which is the main reciever/base station and a DR5088RC which is a current-draw based occupancy detector module that has bidirectional communication via RailCom (so I can not only detect that a train is in a block, but which train it is).

 

Building my track in EM I don't have any centre-over springs like Peco so I have to figure out my turnout actuating process fairly early on - and after watching some videos online I've decided to go with a servo-based system for the size and affordability. Time will tell if that's a good choice, but since a pair of four-address decoders, eight polarity switchers and eight servos came to less than the cost of three Cobalt point motors - I'm willing to try (those are DR4024 and DR4018). I got these from Germany in eBay, the sum total just over £300.

 

Of course at this point I don't have any railcom equipped locos (let's not dwell on the fact I still haven't run a single train in anger) or controllers, I also sent an order for a Roco Wireless Multimaus and a Lenz Standard V2 (which does have railcom) for another £100.

 

If you're anything like me at this point you're somewhat aghast at the spending thus far on this project, but I believe that I'm basically set up for a downhill run in that department the rest of the way: locos, coaches, wagons, all of my track, baseboard modules, etc. have been paid for. The DCC system will be mounted on daughter boards with connectors, and full pluggable so most if not everything can (and will) be reused on any and all layouts going forward.  I think the only real expenditure going forward will be scenic and scratchbuilding materials.

 

EDIT: Voyaged into the hellscape of Hobbycraft and came out with balsa wood, masking tape and weathering powder.

EDIT: hattons have both the 4-CEP and 2-EPB on sale for around 40% off each. Life makes a mockery of us all.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Lacathedrale