Godstone Road - Platforms and 3rd Rail

[Lacathedrale]

Ah I see, it was my understanding that it was a requirement in model form in order that the curved switch rail would not introduce a rough 'bump' when the turnout is open. I spent a little more time with a needle file to smooth the blade and thin it out more and it appears to have done the trick without the need for a joggle - thank you!

[Enterprisingwestern]

Some good news, my 4CEP turned up (how the F am I going to convert that to EM I wonder) and finally my C&L track components. Unfortunately my EMGS membership is still pending so I'm going to give the method shown here tomorrow and see what happens, if it works then that's great - and if not then I'll grab a couple of jigs from the society stores when that pans out.

 

Just by way of an update - still no sight of my DCC bits from Germany or from DCCTrainAutomation.

 

The motor bogie is straightforward and the rest depends if you want to retain any/all of the trailing bogie pick ups (for lighting primarily) as to how difficult you are going to make life for yourself.

In general, junk the original bulky pick up arrangement and drill the sideframes for pinpoints and fit 14mm wheels as normal.

To maintain the pick ups solder your pick up wire of choice onto the stubs of the old junked pick ups on the inside of the bogie, I used Black Beetle wheelsets, which are only insulated on one side, reversing the axles in each bogie to maintain ooposite polarity pick ups.

The S4 society (I think) did/does a laser cut plastic bogie widening kit which I seem to remember helped along the way.

If you need any more info PM me, I can shoot some pictures across by whatsapp if need be.

 

Mike.

[Kelly]

The S4 society (I think) did/does a laser cut plastic bogie widening kit which I seem to remember helped along the way.

 

Sadly no longer available. The original creator of them may have some, but my brain is failing at remembering his name (damn fog!), and I know who it is as I managed to get some from him earlier this year.

[Lacathedrale]

I guess I will then have to take the bogies apart to review them - I was hoping that it would be as simple as edging the wheels out and/or replacing with some standard DCC Concepts coach wheels.

[Kelly]

I guess I will then have to take the bogies apart to review them - I was hoping that it would be as simple as edging the wheels out and/or replacing with some standard DCC Concepts coach wheels.

 

I have managed to file the backs of the bogies enough to fit P4 wheels to an MLV and EPB before I got the spacers. The spacers are really more needed for P4 than EM I expect. I had to remove the inner brake shoes however to fit the P4 wheels.

 

The power bogies are the more tricky to do, due to them being split. Standard wheels can replace the trailing wheels easily enough (gibson, branchlines work well). Branchlines as said previously sell special wheels for the power bogies however which make it a lot easier to convert. You then just need to file the backs down of the bogie frames to get them to fit.

[dhjgreen]

I guess I will then have to take the bogies apart to review them - I was hoping that it would be as simple as edging the wheels out and/or replacing with some standard DCC Concepts coach wheels.

The bogies have enough room for EM wheels. I posted my method for the 2EPB on the EMGS Peco track topic (Branchline wheels and half axles), did you miss it?

[eastwestdivide]

On the motive power, also 47s on aggregates from the Westbury area to the SR in the 70s-early 80s, and 56s from the early 80s (about 83-84 onwards).

[Lacathedrale]

The bogies have enough room for EM wheels. I posted my method for the 2EPB on the EMGS Peco track topic (Branchline wheels and half axles), did you miss it?

 

Sorry, right you are - so a combo of carriage wheels and Branchlines half-axles in the motor bogies? Seems quite reasonable. I keep glancing at the P4 wheeled  Lima 37 and thinking to myself 'eh, it's only a short change...' but given my ropey track laying so far I don't think I'd survive it.

 

Somehow despite gauging everything the whole way through, there's a bit of narrowing on the diverging route; and despite using exactly the same timbers and the same chairs on the same base, there are some annoying jolts in the railhead as it goes between joins.

 

[dhjgreen]

Yes and if you do any DMUs at some time the existing motor bogie wheels sets can be eased out. I think the reason EMUs cannot be eased far enough has something to do with the shoe beam.

 

I know it should not be necessary but I use 3 point gauges on the diverging route.

Edited November 13, 2018 by dhjgreen

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks, I think I definitely need to figure out a better way of handling the crossing nose support too.  Trying to fit four chairs (one each side of the nose and then one each side of the wing rail) is too much. I'm thinking that a shim of plasticard underneath superglued into to raise it to the correct height above the timbers?

 

I also need a way to budget for the energisation of the frog - current plans are that when I remove the track from the temporary base  I'll flip it 180 and solder a dropper to the bottom.

 

Lastly, one of the big benefits of going to EM for me was the fun of hand laying track, but I don't want it to become a source of trouble for the layout. Right now it feels like there are too many variables: position and angle of the wing rails, crossing nose, etc. are all done by eye and with only partial assistance from bits of plasticard/brass used as jigs and guides. I'd rather not spend another £60 on supporting infra from the EMGS (infact I haven't heard a single thing from them since I submitted my request 3+ weeks ago!).

[dhjgreen]

Membership sec has been on holiday.

[martin_wynne]

Right now it feels like there are too many variables: position and angle of the wing rails, crossing nose, etc. are all done by eye and with only partial assistance from bits of plasticard/brass used as jigs and guides.

 

Hi William,

 

Print a spare copy of the template. Use it as a guide when bending rails. Time spent pre-forming rails to match the template exactly will be well repaid during construction. You shouldn't need much more than the usual set of gauges -- plus a few assorted rail clips bent up from paper clips, and a 20p coin to space the tip of the open switch blade.

 

Martin.

[Siberian Snooper]

I solder a piece of etched fret where the slab and bracket goes, this normally packs the nose up for the use of cosmetic chairs once it's been cut back and tidied up. The bonus is it also electrically bonds all the crossing components.

[Lacathedrale]

^ the slab and bracket?

 

Thanks both. I did hear that the membership sec was off but I think that was a couple of weeks ago? It's not a huge issue yet.

 

Martin, I did post as requested on the templot forum with regard to the turnouts leading to the platform/carriage roads. I'm not au fait with Templot enough to know how to snap a 'new' track between two existing templates (which is what I gather I would have to do to replace the straight B6's with contraflexed B7.5's?).

 

On those lines I am considering consolidating the entry to the carriage road and coal depot to a single siding off the up main, more like a traditional goods yard - that feels like it would be more prototypical and I could include a proper catch point and/or ground signal there. Thoughts? The space infront of the carriage road is mostly just dead space anyway, and it would potentially give a little more flexibility to the convergence of those turnouts.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Siberian Snooper]

"Slab and bracket", is what the GW use to secure the nose components, the slab is a triangular shape with the corners cut off and has 5 holes in it, the brackets are cast jaws similar to the fixed jaw of a chair with a horizontal hole through the middle. These together with spacers secure the nose with a long nut and bolt. The castings are fang bolted through the slab too the timber and the 5th hole in the slab is also fang bolted through the timber. "Fang bolt" a square headed bolt that screws into a threaded plate under the timber, a right pain in the a#$€. If you have a look on the Templot forum there are photos of most of the standard GW track fittings, I think it's an early entry in the share and show by Phil O.

[Siberian Snooper]

i'm now on a computer, so here's a link

 

http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_forum.php?id=12&sort_by=&page=5

 

If you scroll down towards the bottom all those GW special chairs are what you're after.

 

and here's how BR did it

 

http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=475&forum_id=11

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks both - I think work needs to stop temporarily (or if not then proceed with the real potential that it may be a waste of time and materials) until I can get the components I need from Exactoscale/EMGS. Definitely lessons learned already from the first turnout made: I didn't glue the template down (taped it) and chopped up normal chairs instead of using special chairs or PCB to support the crossing, and filed the vee by eye instead of using a proper jig.

 

In fact, enthusiasm is again at a low ebb, my £400 of DCC control is still in postal limbo after almost a month, and similar issues with the EMGS (yes I'm aware the membership sec was on holiday).

 

I'm seriously considering going the whole hog switching to P4 instead of EM...

Edited November 14, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Welp, had a call from the membership sec of the EMGS yesterday and it appears all is well and details are winging their way to me. I've been incredibly, super stressed at work - put on a new project where I'm barely keeping my head above water and the guy I'm working with is moving on. All has been focused on that for the last few days, but I did catch 5 minutes to work on the crossover.

 

One of the key issues with the first half was that since the template was only taped to the work board and then pritt stick used to affix the sleepers to it, the paper became wavy and uneven - it makes troubleshooting particularly difficult. I lifted the other half and stuck that down as best I could and I think that'll make it easier. One of the closure rails has ridden up, and I can't figure out how or why, as it's on the same chairs as all the surrounding rail. I think the only solution will be to use pliers to slide the rail towards the toe end, slice off that chair and reapply. I'm fairly certain I'm going to thoroughly break the whole thing - but such is life I guess. This is one part about plastic turnout construction I don't really like - once the Butanone goes on, it's not exactly simple to resolve.

 

I also got a DCC concepts reamer and I can highly recommend it - the HEA wagon I'm testing on doesn't have brass bearings, just ABS plastic - but after cleaning up the holes it runs very smoothly indeed.

[PaulCheffus]

One of the closure rails has ridden up, and I can't figure out how or why, as it's on the same chairs as all the surrounding rail. I think the only solution will be to use pliers to slide the rail towards the toe end, slice off that chair and reapply. I'm fairly certain I'm going to thoroughly break the whole thing - but such is life I guess. This is one part about plastic turnout construction I don't really like - once the Butanone goes on, it's not exactly simple to resolve.

Hi

 

I've used a flat chisel type blade (http://www.xacto.com/products/cutting-solutions/blades/detail/X217) to do this with the 2mm easitrac chairs.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Paul, Amazon Prime Same-Day to the rescue. I think the problem is being compounded when I have to start slicing up the chairs around the nose, wing, check rails - hopefully the EMGS / Exactoscale have some components that can ease this.

[martin_wynne]

pritt stick used to affix the sleepers to it, the paper became wavy and uneven.

 

Hi William,

 

That's why I recommend printing templates on thicker paper -- 160gsm is good, and also thick enough to allow separate sheets to be butted together rather than overlapped when assembling a multi-page templates:

 

If you are forced to use ordinary 80gsm office paper, I suggest using double-stick tape to attach the timbers rather than any water-based adhesive.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Siberian Snooper]

If you use ply sleepers/timbers, a dab of solvent will soften the chair enough to reposition it.

[Flacky]

Pointwork is looking excellent

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Flacky, that's really kind.

 

Siberian Snooper, I did already try to smush the chair down with some butanone but it's made no difference. I'm in two minds: whether to leave it as-is and then perform whatever surgery is required when it's transported to the layout (incase the issue is the paper/board as per Martin's thoughts), or trying to head it off at the pass now.

 

After some discussion with Martin and a fresh look I've smoothed out the geometry of the pointwork leading into the layout -the angles are all the same but this time the turnouts are slightly curved instead of being ramrod straight with a curved piece of flex on the end. I mean hey, if I'm going to all the trouble of laying my own track I may as well do some 'custom' formations, right? I also have consolidated the CCD and carriage sidings into a single connection to the up mainline (TR218 in the diagram) - this way it's alot more like a 'real' old goods yard to my untrained eye:

 

 

The horror that is the timbering around TL186 needs resolving but now it's just a plain branch crossover I think that's easier to manage. The string of PL239/PL232/PL231 I'm not happy with either but I'm not sure how to fix it as the gravel shed needs to go roughly at PL232 and there's not enough separation from the running lines if I use straight track.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Please don't take this as criticism, but wouldn't you have been better starting oiff with an inglenook to get your eye in, the flow of the trackwork is not as critical?

I know some say diving in at the deep end is the way to go, but I suppose it depends on what sort of person you are.

Any road up, keep plugging away, you'll get there in the end.

 

Mike.