TTS in old loco

[mikeg]

I have been asked to fit a TTS chip in a tender drive Hornby A4 which has a ringfield motor that draws just over 1 amp so is it possible to fit a second chip in either series or parallel. I have not been able to find any information to do this on the forum but am sure I have read that it’s possible to do but can’t remember the details for the wiring, but I thought about using one of Hattons basic chips to keep the cost down, has anyone done it and was it successful.

 

Regards mike

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Not done it with this combination, but the two decoders are simply wired in parallel to rail supply. 

 

The silent one connects to the motor, the sound one runs sound.

 

Either can be used to run other functions, but my suggestion would be not to use the sound decoder for anything but sound, give it as little load as possible.

 

For programming purposes it is helpful to put a connection in one rail supply lead on each decoder, so that each can be isolated from track supply to enable programming the other independently. (I did this by soldering and unsoldering since it was a full hardwire job.)

[Pete the Elaner]

I have not got good performance from an older model, but I have only used basic decoders.

I suspect a better decoder with more tuneable motor control may be beneficial for this.

[BMS]

I have been asked to fit a TTS chip in a tender drive Hornby A4 which has a ringfield motor that draws just over 1 amp so is it possible to fit a second chip in either series or parallel. I have not been able to find any information to do this on the forum but am sure I have read that it’s possible to do but can’t remember the details for the wiring, but I thought about using one of Hattons basic chips to keep the cost down, has anyone done it and was it successful.

 

Regards mike

If I read you correctly you want to convert a 9F ringfield to DCC and fit a TTS decoder.

This is possible but take care to ensure that the motor is totally isolated from the track; Hornby had a habit of using the motor mount to provide one of the connections and this will blow most decoders if not removed. Use a multi-meter to confirm no connection. 

Are you sure that the ringfield is taking as much as amp - that is high or is that the current when stalled? (Possibly tired magnet)

The TTS decoder is capable of 500 ma continous or 1 amp max - does this remove the need for the second decoder?

If you have no lights involved then you only need to connect the decoder to the track with red and black wires and use grey and orange to supply the motor from the decoder BUT only after ensuring there are no other connections to the motor

[RAF96]

Fit the decoders in parallel as regards pickups, noting the standard need to ensure the motor brushes are isolated, etc - but leave the motor connections off the TTS decoder, which will work as if it was in a dummy car (ala Hornby HST set).

If on the same address the functions will work on the TTS and the motor control will be on the grunt decoder.

Rob

[Phil S]

Concurring with the suggestions above - but also suggesting  - that there comes a time when an apparently more drastic approach may be better: Since that model  may need a replacement motor / re magnetising / other work, and has relatively course wheels and loose half axle centre wheels on the tender, and picks up only from 1 side of loco / tender --- look at the cost of buying a current Railroad loco drive version - for little more than the cost of a TTS , replacement ringfield, and 2nd decoder - it would then work happily on the single TTS decoder, and look and perform much better too!

(If an early Silver Seal Oliver Cromwell period, then the body is also too high because it matches the old 'Tri-ang' standard buffer height)

[mikeg]

Thanks for the replies I think that BMS has confused the issue with the reference to a 9F its an A4 that runs extremely well on DC as it has been well maintained, I do not think the magnet is weak but the problem is a dirty commutator which I will clean when I take the brushes out as it looks like one needs to be insulated. I have now been asked to do the same with a Flying Scotsman with a similar motor but it draws less than 1 amp as it has recently been cleaned and runs better than the A4.

 

I think I will do as 34c suggested and put plug & socket in the leads so that I can program the chips separately.

 

I have used two chips before but in a O gauge diesel with a chip on each motor bogie and had to be programmed to run at the same speed. The main aim is to use the TTS chips for the sound and the standard chip for traction which I think I can do.

 

Regards mike

[mikeg]

Just a update, I have found that the motor has a plastic plate holding the brushes and there’s plenty of room to fit the chip in the tender and the speaker will go in the firebox of the loco.

I will have to hard wire the chip and run new speaker wires into the loco, also fix the locomotive and tender together by soldering a washer onto the drawbar pin, I was also asked if I could do an A1 but there is no room for the speaker that comes with the chip unless the owner buys a new sugar-cube speaker which he does not want to do.

As I have a rammeter I tested the A4 to see what amps it draws, the answer was 0.4 & 0.6 on load so well within the TTS chips range.

So thanks again for your help.

Regards mike

 

PS the model has Made in England moulded onto the chassis of the tender.

[Kingzance]

Glad someone asked the question as I have recently been given an old Hornby Saint with a tender drive and ring-field motor. I accept that there is a lot to do to make the old Saint look respectable (extend cylinders, cut and adjust the front whilst maintaining 14mm buffer height, fill the gap over the bogie, fit scale bogie wheels, change the chimney, fit decent smokebox darts and repaint / reline below the frame tops) and it would be nice to get it to run, hence asking which option others would pursue from:
a) attempt to isolate the tender motor so it can run under DCC.

b) replace the tender with a white-metal kit version and a Mashima / High Level drive.

c) Replace the loco drivers and fit a Mashima / High Level gearbox in the boiler firebox. 

I have already located the detailing parts I need to improve the front end of the Saint's body. Sorting the drive system comes down in my mind to the above choices. Option A is probably the simplest whilst Option C is the most difficult (and expensive) and all wouldn't resolve the loco drivers' wheelbase issue.

There is of course a fourth option and that is to make it look acceptable and then park it permanently in the Station Pilot road and perhaps even a fifth option of a new model from one of the major suppliers but that is pure conjecture. Your thoughts?

 

Tony

[RAF96]

Whilst piggy backing TTS with a grunt motor decoder works ok for a diesel, be aware that TTS steam needs motor feedback (bemf) for the chuff sounds to work correctly. diesels do not so rely and simply use notching bands to up/down the sound.