A New Hope - Great Model Railway Challenge benefits

[jcm@gwr]

When I saw the words "A New Hope" in the title of this thread, I must admit that I initially thought of the original "Star Wars" film, as renamed a few years back (for reasons I'd prefer not to speculate on).

 

However, after getting past the title, I've found myself agreeing with a lot of what's been said here - and starting to think about related matters for myself (a scary concept, I know).

 

I think Andy is right to wonder if, in GMRC, we might be looking at something very important for the hobby. Certainly, I wonder how many people with no previous links to railway modelling are really likely to be drawn in by poorly publicized shows, open days etc., in obscure venues, a long way away from anywhere they've ever heard of - shows full of 50, 60 and 70 somethings, stooped awkwardly over expensive RTR models, actively pursuing that most extreme of sports known as "rivet counting".

 

Well, I haven't noticed too many rivets being paraded on GMRC - and I see this as a good thing. There's certainly been some excellent model making - which I reckon could make some interesting viewing in itself - but the real emphasis seems to have been on showing that the hobby can be fun.

 

Perhaps there might be ways of injecting a bit more fun into exhibitions - always assuming, of course, that newcomers manage to find them - also assuming that they manage to find their way in through the doors to these exhibitions.

 

What sorts of layouts fill these exhibitions? Are they all carefully crafted, miniature replicas of obscure locations, that only see one train per day - or are any centred on "operating potential"?

 

Please don't get me wrong - I certainly think accurate, scale reproductions have their place at shows (even if only to try and silence some of those irritating **@@**ßß**!!**s who insist on constantly ranting on about "grown men playing with toy choo-choo-trains").

 

However, might there also be potential for some slightly less scenery-intensive switching puzzles, which reasonably sensible visitors get the chance to try out for themselves?

 

Might there even be scope for some "drop-in" mini-shows, in local libraries and theatre lobbies - with a mix of small layouts and demonstrators from local clubs - preferably more than one local club, just to show that clubs are capable of "talking" and working together. (Well, they are capable of doing this - aren't they?)

 

 

OK - some people won't agree with my random thoughts - and that's fine by me. It really is - but I hope these people feel able to constructively put across their own ideas for ways of getting more people interested in the hobby.

 

 

Anyway, returning to the TV series, I see it as very much a case of: "Please sir, I want some more."

 

You might ask how much more - well, further series would be appreciated - preferably every year. I certainly wouldn't complain - and I don't think I'd be alone in this regard.

 

 

Huw.

 

We (Stevenage & District M.R.C.) already do some of these things.

Once a year we get involved, with the local N gauge group, in a 'Railway Day' at our local museum.

Various layouts are supplied and operated, including my Inglenook (controls at the front, for the kids

to operate), this normally results in new club members joining up.

We also have started doing a mini-show at a local shopping centre in Welwyn, the first weekend in

December, which we do together with DeHavilland M.R.C., again it has brought us new members.

[JohnR]

The question is what would a 6-7 year old want to play with - a steam train or a modern train?

 

When our father's were growing up it was the archetypal express steam train circuit, when I were a lad it was the HST (and one solitary coach)  so that would suggest today we need modern trains at a reasonable price which represents what a child will see on today's railways.

 

Luckily, Hornby being purveyors of all things trainset still have such offerings - IEP, Pendolino, HST, MKIV, Javelin, go up the chain a little and Bachmann have the 350/450 units, the Voyagers and Dapol have the shiny 68 (coaches?).  

 

 

As a father of a 6 year old boy (who happens to be train mad) I think its much more complicated. My boy's favourite train by far is the Pendolino. I have yet to work out why - we live nowhere near the WCML, and the first time we rode on one was last year, when I took him on a special trip. He also likes a 66, and cant wait for the Hattons models to arrive. Yesterday, he got his first model Pendolino - he had been saving birthday christmas and pocket money for it all year. I dont think I've seen him happier other than at christmas. 

 

And yet, he will quite happily play with my blue diesels (he has a couple himself), or even my steam locos (again, he has some himself). He has been rivetted by the GMRC programme, and has now watched each episode 2 or 3 times. Last weekend, we visited the Dundee Show, where they had a shunting puzzle layout - when we got home he wanted to play something similar with mine - so out comes his Hornby 06 and selection of brightly coloured wagons. Again, many hours of happy concentration. 

 

Maybe he's a bit different from most lads his age - but then again maybe not. He is just as happy playing games on his tablet, or watching videos, or binge watching whole series' of cartoons on Netflix. I think the real difference is showing how trains can be fun, and doing so at a young age.

[Robin2]

I think the real difference is showing how trains can be fun, and doing so at a young age.

Let's make them fun for people of every age.

 

Having had a visit from a young person (I guess about 10) at my club I do appreciate that older people are not quite so hyper-active. But leaving that aside, I reckon older people (15 to 95) get fun in much the same way as younger people.

 

One of my favourite scenes at a model railway exhibition is 3-rail Hornby Dublo with trains flying around at supersonic speeds. My attention span is much too short to watch prototypical shunting.

 

...R

[rob D2]

If there are a million watching it we only need 10% to pick up the hobby to double the supposed number of participants....

 

I think it’s a positive thing for the hobby overall.

[Ian Smeeton]

If there are a million watching it we only need 10% to pick up the hobby to double the supposed number of participants....

 

I think it’s a positive thing for the hobby overall.

 

And only a few percent of those to progress through the stages from 'Train Set' to model railway would be a major boost.

 

Watched the first two episodes, and about to break into the third, half way through.

 

Nice to see some younger modellers in last weeks offering.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Barry O]

It would seem, on another forum, that this programme has been misunderstood by some of the modeller.

As I see it, this can attract new modellers...and they may be younger modellers..which is good for all Railway Modelling and the Historical "Line" based societies. While the idea of a Bob Symes type programme is a good one, it won't necessarily have the impact of the Challenge on people who may just need a gentle nudge to get them into railway modelling.

Baz

Edited October 20, 2018 by Barry O

[cypherman]

hi all,

I know a lot of people here think that it is going to encourage younger modellers, But I have to say I am personally bitterly disappointed with this program. It just seems to be about putting as many gimics on each layout as possible. After 3 episodes most of the layouts are never finished or work all that well. As for the having to create items from household objects. I think it is a waste of space and that person would be better put to use helping finish the layout.

Edited October 20, 2018 by cypherman

[brightspark]

I too am absolutly convinced that this show is for the good and that we in the hobby must act fast to capture the mood. For a start lets start using the word artists a bit more. I was also at the Farnham show and I also had the impression that there were a lot of people there who I would not expect to see at model show. What I found interesting was to follow them and see what they were looking at. An example is a mother and kids. At previous shows I have observed Mother judging any layoit on something running at speed immediately in front of them, anything less including a train just disappearing off scene was dismissed as "come on this one is not working". What I saw this time was Mother ignoring the trains and looking for the little cameos.

Our (those in the hobby) first point of action has to be at model railway shows. Its been said before but here it is again.For a start make sure the layouts work. 2nd operators try to look happy. 3rd Personal hygene. 4th If you demonstrating,look upand engage the public, explain what you are doing. I do not want to see the tops of heads ignoring people. Oh yes,and please take of the binoculars when you talk to someone. 5th layout owners, try to have someone at the front of the shop to tell the public what is going on. You saw it on the TV show...do it like that.

6. We need youngsters, but don't patronize them. Thomas does not need to appear on every layout. They will appreciate finescale layouts if you treat them like adults.

Finally I think that the Tolworth Showtrain will be one to watch as it comes on the weekend of the final. It will be interesting to see what sort of people come in the door and what they want to see.

 

Edit as it published before I was ready. Any spelling mistakes are due to me writing this on a phone and being an ignoramus.

Edited October 20, 2018 by brightspark

[Phil Parker]

The first stage in leaping on the bandwagon of this programme, and the Channel 4 one, is to include the phrase "If you've been watching Channel 5's Great Model Railway Challenge..." in a press release to your local paper plugging your show or club. The local press loves a TV tie-in and it's the best chance of getting space on the page. It will also work with local radio and possibly even TV. 

 

Apart from one northern show*, every exhibition manager wants more punters through the door. Every extra punter is a potential new recruit for the hobby. Expose enough of them to what we do, especially if we can look like we are having fun, and sheer weight of numbers mean some will have a go.

 

It's also worth looking at the successful junior areas. At Ally Pally, the junior area was always busy with people building kits and the trade reported a big increase in sales of ANY Dapol kit because that's what they had been making. Young MRC is a popular Saturday morning club. I saw it in action earlier in the year and parents and children were sharing the work on their models. Great bonding and developing the hand/eye coordination skills required for our hobby. It's not easy to do, but anyone who is up for it needs all the support we can give.

 

*The Exhibition manager loudly condemned the layouts in the programme on Facebook and said he wouldn't have them in his show.  Presumably, there is no space for a few hundred extra visitors in the hall. 

[rob D2]

hi all,

I know a lot of people here think that it is going to encourage younger modellers, But I have to say I am personally bitterly disappointed with this program. It just seems to be about putting as many gimics on each layout as possible. After 3 episodes most of the layouts are never finished or work all that well. As for the having to create items from household objects. I think it is a waste of space and that person would be better put to use helping finish the layout.

Well you wo t get new entrants if they think it’s about how many rivets on an 1884 narrow gauge engine....you need the visual stuff , that’s what the public find interesting

[Big James]

I’ve been watching to my niece’s and nephews who after they grow up a bit stop being interested in my layout. Now they are all clambering to have a look and have even asked if they can come to an exhibition with me. Out of 5 if even one gets interested because of this show it’s a win.

 

Big James

[Robin2]

 

Apart from one northern show*, 

If you saw it on Facebook it can't be a secret so do please name and shame.

 

...R

[phil-b259]

hi all,

I know a lot of people here think that it is going to encourage younger modellers, But I have to say I am personally bitterly disappointed with this program. It just seems to be about putting as many gimics on each layout as possible. After 3 episodes most of the layouts are never finished or work all that well. As for the having to create items from household objects. I think it is a waste of space and that person would be better put to use helping finish the layout.

 

That might be because most of the UK population who are not railway modellers like gimmicks....

 

It seems as though you are still under the misapprehension that this show is about 'serious' railway modelling where folk take ages to produce scenically perfect layouts based on real world locations and operated in a prototypical manor.

 

Well its not - and never has been!

 

Take the blinkers off and view it for what it is - a bit of populist entertainment in the same vein as the Great British Bake off.

Edited October 20, 2018 by phil-b259

[RedgateModels]

If you saw it on Facebook it can't be a secret so do please name and shame.

 

...R

He has you over a barrel there Phil.....

[Ian Morgan]

We managed to get a nice little article into our local paper this week on the back of the Challenge:

 

Basingstoke Gazette article

 

All helps to bring the club to the local population's attention.

[Signalist]

Unfortunately the editing of the show has not shown all of the work, planning, research, and prototype detail that has gone in to some of the layouts. A bit of context would make the layouts a lot more interesting when the location and function of each feature can be explained. There was a lot of focus on animations but little mention of the derivation of many of the scenic features or stock choice.

 

Now, at an exhibition someone can engage with the public and find out what the interests of the visitors are and then discuss aspects of a layout that might be of interest and put the points across a lot better. If the programme gets people in to exhibitions it should make the exhibitions viable and create a great opportunity to try and garner further interest.

 

I have always had a particular irritation with exhibitions filled with tiny terminus plank dioramas for want of a better phrase built that size and way "because it fits in the back seat of my fiesta". You really need to have something a bit bigger with a bit of action to engage youngsters with something happening that is a bit interesting and also a bit contemporary, and show those (often simple) techniques like scenic breaks that make the whole thing seem a lot bigger than it is.

 

Manufacturers need to help a bit too with making a bit more contemporary stuff. How many people pop down to their local station and see a Pendolino? Not many. They are more likely to see a 313, 319, 317, or any of the myriad of newer suburban EMUs that the manufacturers have yet to produce. All the while modelling is seen as old things portrayed by old people we are going to struggle to engage. When I was starting out I wanted to model what I saw but I could not, and found it most frustrating - ready to run is the fundamental building block that everyone starts with and what greater things are made from.

 

Exhibitions can be a bit of a nightmare to populate with good layouts and staff, but perhaps now some priority should be given to layouts that are a bit more engaging and have dedicated people to do the 'Captain Peacock' role of greeting the visitors (especially those who do not look like they are present to count rivets) and show them the wonders of our hobby. I know what a Metcalfe kit is, and the prevalence of them shows how good they are, but a newcomer to the hobby can quickly be shown that they can make one of these with no previous skill and have something a bit interesting and in no time will be bashing the Metcalfe, ballasting track and have something they are proud of. We need to be a bit aspirational and let the visitors decide what they can and can't take away from the ideas. There is no reason that the Thomas layout has to be on a flat 6' x 4' baseboard with a token point and station - if you really have to have a Thomas it can be a lot more representative of Sodor and more interesting to operate! There is a lot of prototype reference material out there...

[wombatofludham]

 

Now, at an exhibition someone can engage with the public and find out what the interests of the visitors are and then discuss aspects of a layout that might be of interest and put the points across a lot better. If the programme gets people in to exhibitions it should make the exhibitions viable and create a great opportunity to try and garner further interest.

 

I have always had a particular irritation with exhibitions filled with tiny terminus plank dioramas for want of a better phrase built that size and way "because it fits in the back seat of my fiesta". You really need to have something a bit bigger with a bit of action to engage youngsters with something happening that is a bit interesting and also a bit contemporary, and show those (often simple) techniques like scenic breaks that make the whole thing seem a lot bigger than it is.

 

Manufacturers need to help a bit too with making a bit more contemporary stuff. How many people pop down to their local station and see a Pendolino? Not many. They are more likely to see a 313, 319, 317, or any of the myriad of newer suburban EMUs that the manufacturers have yet to produce. All the while modelling is seen as old things portrayed by old people we are going to struggle to engage. When I was starting out I wanted to model what I saw but I could not, and found it most frustrating - ready to run is the fundamental building block that everyone starts with and what greater things are made from.

 

 

Agree with the need to engage in a friendly way with people showing an interest and not to assume or patronise when they ask questions.  If you are one of the many people who struggle in "social" situations, then why not recruit someone to come along with you who has swallowed the Blarney Stone to interact with the public?  It's so important with this programme seemingly catching the public interest (and who would have thought that a few months back?) not to undo the goodwill by appearing aloof or disinterested.  I know some people find it difficult to chat to the public but most clubs will have at least one "communicator" in their ranks, and if you are an individual exhibitor why not try to involve a friend or family member who could be briefed to answer questions or act as a "firewall" between you and Joe and Joanna Normal?

 

On the terminus planks I can hand on heart say that my old terminus plank King's Oak was popular with youngsters, probably because I abandoned any pretence to have a timetable, I just ran trains in and out whenever there were viewers, the trains all made noise which they loved and the trains were all recognisable modern dmus.  It was also set at a child friendly height, and I also occasionally let any particularly interested youngsters have a go.  Bizarrely, most young kids seemed more interested in the fiddle yard than the scenery, and would sometimes ask for a particular train, but others loved pointing out some of the figures like the strange Elvis like photographer taking pictures of the trains, or the film crew filming Crossroads at the motel.  Not all terminal planks have to involve a Pannier tank snoozing whilst the crew nip off to poach a few rabbits whilst waiting to work the twice daily autotrain under the road bridge!

[PatB]

Agree with the need to engage in a friendly way with people showing an interest and not to assume or patronise when they ask questions. If you are one of the many people who struggle in "social" situations, then why not recruit someone to come along with you who has swallowed the Blarney Stone to interact with the public? It's so important with this programme seemingly catching the public interest (and who would have thought that a few months back?) not to undo the goodwill by appearing aloof or disinterested. I know some people find it difficult to chat to the public but most clubs will have at least one "communicator" in their ranks, and if you are an individual exhibitor why not try to involve a friend or family member who could be briefed to answer questions or act as a "firewall" between you and Joe and Joanna Normal?

 

On the terminus planks I can hand on heart say that my old terminus plank King's Oak was popular with youngsters, probably because I abandoned any pretence to have a timetable, I just ran trains in and out whenever there were viewers, the trains all made noise which they loved and the trains were all recognisable modern dmus. It was also set at a child friendly height, and I also occasionally let any particularly interested youngsters have a go. Bizarrely, most young kids seemed more interested in the fiddle yard than the scenery, and would sometimes ask for a particular train, but others loved pointing out some of the figures like the strange Elvis like photographer taking pictures of the trains, or the film crew filming Crossroads at the motel. Not all terminal planks have to involve a Pannier tank snoozing whilst the crew nip off to poach a few rabbits whilst waiting to work the twice daily autotrain under the road bridge!

Agree with all this. I'd also add that, from my own experience, interaction with the punters can be learned fairly quickly, even by the severely introverted (as I tend to be). I started running a market stall 3 years ago and was forced to go from my usual, monosyllabic, eyes on the ground self to someone with, at least outwardly, an engaging, welcoming and cheerful personality and a line of patter. The first has been a matter of forcing myself to learn basic acting skills. The second comes from having, over time, developed a handful of standard mental scripts from which I can pick the most appropriate bits and around which I can ad lib as necessary. Doing this has pretty much eliminated the awkward silences I used to excel at.

 

Im not saying that everyone can do this, and I'll admit I've had a lot of practice, with weekly markets since 2015, but it's surprising what can be done at need. I was probably 90% of the way to where I am now after no more than half a dozen events. I've actually found it quite satisfying in many ways. I like learning new skills and it has definitely fallen into that category.

[Signalist]

Drilling in to the BARB figures around the first programme gives some interesting insight. While Great British Bake off might be the No1 male viewing on commercial TV, Great Model Railway Challenge does come in at No29 among ABC1 so there might be some money to be made by the manufacturers on the back of this with the inevitable knock on effects of increased club membership etc.

 

I hope that by the second episode all the ABC1 women who were watching Eastenders on BBC instead might have migrated to see what we did with Walford...

[peterl]

Did you get the figures for C2DE? Might give a better indication of likely take up of the hobby.

Peter

[cypherman]

That might be because most of the UK population who are not railway modellers like gimmicks....

 

It seems as though you are still under the misapprehension that this show is about 'serious' railway modelling where folk take ages to produce scenically perfect layouts based on real world locations and operated in a prototypical manor.

 

Well its not - and never has been!

 

Take the blinkers off and view it for what it is - a bit of populist entertainment in the same vein as the Great British Bake off.

Hi,

I do not have a blinkered view and I especially am not a rivet counter, But atleast in the Great British Bakeoff you can eat the cakes. Most of these layouts barely function. I think a better title for this program would have been "Lets play with toy trains".

[Robin2]

 

I do not have a blinkered view and I especially am not a rivet counter, But atleast in the Great British Bakeoff you can eat the cakes. Most of these layouts barely function. I think a better title for this program would have been "Lets play with toy trains".

Hey, c'mon now. Building the model railways that have appeared on the program is a great deal more challenging than baking buns.

 

This program is intended to showcase a great hobby for the very large number of people who have never come in contact with it, and IMHO it is doing that very well.

 

The narrow view that the teams putting in all the work are "playing with toy trains" is not going to sell the hobby to the wider public.

 

...R

[wombatofludham]

 

The narrow view that the teams putting in all the work are "playing with toy trains" is not going to sell the hobby to the wider public.

 

...R

 

Nor is it accurate.  They are applying creativity and artistry to playing with toy trains.  Bit more than a circle of track on the carpet with a supersonic Thomas hurtling around.  More to the point, most ordinary viewers will see the work and different skills going into the layouts even if they sometimes fail or seem a bit under developed to some armchair critics.  I bet the majority of ordinaries watching will be saying "I never realised there was so much creativity in model railways" rather than making comments about "playing trains".

 

(For the avoidance of doubt I never baulk at comments like "playing trains" choosing instead to challenge the sneering accuser with a "What of it?" before pointing out the utter pointlessness of being a football supporter.  Never lost that argument yet)

[Guest Bri.s]

I think It’s Putting fun back in modelrailways

And creating a buzz around it perfect timing for Christmas aswell hopefully the smaller retailers will see more sales especially from younger /new enthusiasts

I do find it interesting what they’re going to come up with on the scratchbuild challenge and I think half the funs waiting to see if the layouts actually work at end

Last episode me and the mrs was willing the loco and coach across the swing bridge ,but unfortunately we didnt have the power to stop it derailing lol

 

Brian

[Signalist]

Did you get the figures for C2DE? Might give a better indication of likely take up of the hobby.

Peter

 

No, but judging by the modellers I come across in my club and elsewhere there are not many C2DE. Perhaps that is where it all went wrong. Modelling is beyond the reach of C2DE!