Planned Bachmann Branchline release schedule published 19 October 2018

[lindi]

Did this thread disappear and reappear couldn't find it yesterday!

Mark

 

Yes it did. It was removed early on Sunday morning, not sure when it was reinstated.

[Roy Langridge]

No mention of the 24/1's...?

At least we now have an SLW headcode box 24 on the way :-)

 

Roy

[Ian Hargrave]

Yes it did. It was removed early on Sunday morning, not sure when it was reinstated.

Odd.

[Verulam Central]

Bachmann should consider a limited new range in 2019 so they can catch up on the backlog of items already been made. Rather than us wait 5 years for some models. 

[tomparryharry]

Okay, to everyone getting all chuffed up about the lack of a 94xx, IT HAS JUST ONLY HIT HAVING A CAD SAMPLE SHOWN IN THE SUMMER Bachmann TIMES, these are just the items being released eventually over the next few months.

 

Reply deleted.

Edited October 23, 2018 by tomparryharry

[JSpencer]

The waiting time/delay for the 94XX seems about the same as any other Bachmann product but looking here, it seems to be the most demanded item on their list of things to do.

 

Interestingly, we are seeing a shift in buying patterns/interest to smaller locos. Less is finally becoming more?

 

I agree though, the longer the wait, the more year by year price increases it will go through (are they still adding 20% wage increase a year? I thought it was initially for 5 years). There will be a market for it but what size I wonder?

 

With the H2 we saw cheats to try and reduce the price but overall the drop in number of parts to put together are far too few that I suspect it has no influence in reducing price at all. The H1 with a few less parts than the C1 is not cheaper than it. It would require a radical rethink to get a 300 part model down to a 200 part model before we see a reel reduction. But by how much? A railroad model uses generally less than 100 parts yet is half the price of a 300 part model so maybe it would be around 20%. Enough to counter one year price increase only and likely to cause some grumblings here about an inferior product for the same money.

Bachmann are stuck with Kader and cannot outsource to cheaper areas. Their newer models (Hap, 117, crane etc) seem to have switched to high end only. The Model shop is going to increasingly look like a frighteningly expensive place to visit for any potential newcomers. And the market has already become more selective (though in part that can also be due to the huge choice before us).

 

This year I brought 15 locos, next year I'm sticking to no more than 10, 8 are penciled in (the crane counts as one!), but we have Warley, Hornby's January announcement and various other commissions and manufacturers yet to make announcements. And there are a couple of classes out there might just have me buying multiples if announced.

Edited October 23, 2018 by JSpencer

[Wickham Green]

Has anyone commented on the absence of the malachite birdcage coaches ?

[brushman47544]

Has anyone commented on the absence of the malachite birdcage coaches ?

 

Showing as TBA on the availability list on the Bachmann website.

[Co-tr-Paul]

So i am not the only one who missed the Midland 0-4-4T then ?

[phil-b259]

 

This year I brought 15 locos, next year I'm sticking to no more than 10, 8 are penciled in (the crane counts as one!), but we have Warley, Hornby's January announcement and various other commissions and manufacturers yet to make announcements. And there are a couple of classes out there might just have me buying multiples if announced.

 

Given Hornby's well publicised financial woes - AND all the uncertainty caused by no Brexit deal having been done with only just over 4 months to go till we crash out of the EU I think its a little foolish / unrealistic to expect too much in the way of new releases at this years Warley show (or even the 2019 catalogues).

[Fenman]

Given Hornby's well publicised financial woes - AND all the uncertainty caused by no Brexit deal having been done with only just over 4 months to go till we crash out of the EU I think its a little foolish / unrealistic to expect too much in the way of new releases at this years Warley show (or even the 2019 catalogues).

Every year for the last decade or so someone has come up with a reason why Hornby won’t announce anything new for the following year, yet every year the company has gone on to announce shed-loads of new items.

 

I’d suggest this probably means that in this currently evolving market it’s exciting new products which generate the most cash (and, I would hope, profits). And Hornby is clearly desperate to generate cash: its losses have been phenomenal and its borrowings look, to me, uncomfortably large.

 

Hornby is on a treadmill where probably the only way to stay upright is to successfully release loads of exciting new products. Getting off the treadmill just isn’t an option for them right now.

 

Paul

 

PS: apologies for veering wildly off-topic...

Edited October 23, 2018 by Fenman

[Porcy Mane]

Odd.

 

Something of a stab at an explanation here.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87703-Bachmann-announce-ffafga-early-container-flats/page-15&do=findComment&comment=3338741

 

Maybe the delays are down to Kader allocating production slots???

 

Maybe Kader has took on some of the additional work released after the recent surprise closure of of a production facility???

 

Maybe Kader don't like the moaning British market???

 

Maybe Kader are just slow???

 

Maybe I spend too much time speculating???

 

P

[mdvle]

Given Hornby's well publicised financial woes - AND all the uncertainty caused by no Brexit deal having been done with only just over 4 months to go till we crash out of the EU I think its a little foolish / unrealistic to expect too much in the way of new releases at this years Warley show (or even the 2019 catalogues).

 

The market is getting too competitive to take a year off.

 

Note Hattons have now taken the next step and have become a general manufacturer, selling their in house produced models to other retailers wholesale - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138639-hattons-wholesale/

 

With Hornby, Dapol, Rapido (first model announced maybe at Warley), Heljan, Hattons, Oxford all selling through retailers and several other retailers / direct only sellers Bachmann can't be seen to even temporarily withdraw from the market.

Edited October 23, 2018 by mdvle

[phil-b259]

Every year for the last decade or so someone has come up with a reason why Hornby won’t announce anything new for the following year, yet every year the company has gone on to announce shed-loads of new items.

 

 

IIRC the amount of new tooling items Hornby announced in 2018 was actually quite limited - AND a fair few of the ones hey did announced have slipped back and won't be with us till mid 2019!

 

We also know that the decisions what to make are effectively done a year in advance - i.e. the 2019 release strategy will have been fixed by the end of January 2018 so as to arrange the necessary production slots in China. Cast your mind back to the state of Hornby's finances in late 2017 and ask yourself if they were indicative of a company which could afford to commission a large number of fresh models.

 

No, the smart money still is on a limited range of new items from Hornby in 2019 as they continue to seek to stabilise themselves financially and deal with the unknown economic impact of Brexit.

[The Johnster]

Hello Frederick, you're quite right.  May I respectfully say that there's a long way from CAD, to you opening your own box. Many twists & turns are yet to be encountered. IMHO, the 94xx won't be released until the market is comfortable with the  RRP, which will undoubtedly be somewhat higher. We're already seeing model locomotives hitting towards the £200 mark, and that's before DCC, and TTS. Bachmann are quite savvy; they know that they will only sell what they can make. If you put the RRP beyond the average modellers capacity to buy, then the balance of cost versus desirability will be unbalanced.

 

A very difficult balance for Bachmann to pull off, and I wish them well.

 

Ian.

 

You are no doubt right, Ian, but the feeling of being messed about with and if a degree of mendacity is pervasive; I am less sure that I wish them well than I was a while ago.  I accept that a good 94xx, and this one is going to have to be very good, needs a lot of separate parts to design, manufacture in China's many different cottage industry factories, and assemble, and that this inevitably lengthens the lead in from announcement to box opening, but it's already been 5 years and several introduction dates have been touted and then quietly dropped.  If the 94xx isn't going to appear until 2020 or later, fine, but come clean and tell us, please.  I am not a marketing person and know little about it, but cannot imagine that this constant carrot dangling and subsequent withdrawal is good marketing, and doing what you said you were going to but then not doing it when you said you were going to do it two or three times is never going to be good marketing.  If Baccy are waiting for the market, fine, but front up and be honest about it.  

 

I really hope somebody who can react faster, such as Oxford or Hatton's, beats them to it with a good rendition, it'll serve 'em right!

 

None of which will stop me buying the loco when it eventually appears.  £200 might, though!  I am increasingly grateful for your donation of Lima bodies for my Limbach, a satisfying thing to build and not too bad a model considering...

 

I will continue to unashamedly bang on about the 94xx on this forum in the hope that I am helping to make them aware of the bad impression they are creating.  I have little sympathy with the idea that the UK market 'moans'; we have had years of being fed models inferior in detail and performance to those available in Europe and the US and are right to insist on quality.  We are, I accept, congenitally unable to pay the prices required for good models without moaning about it; it is part of the British Disease to demand a Pullman service for Mileage rates.  It costs what it costs, and what it costs is getting more expensive.  

 

I am, to broaden the discussion a little but vaguely still on topic, beginning to wonder if the Chinese production model has not outpriced itself, is now unable to perform within the required time scales, and UK production might be cheaper and more convenient, so long as it could be done without a return to the low standards it was previously associated with.

[tomparryharry]

You are no doubt right, Ian, but the feeling of being messed about with and if a degree of mendacity is pervasive; I am less sure that I wish them well than I was a while ago.  I accept that a good 94xx, and this one is going to have to be very good, needs a lot of separate parts to design, manufacture in China's many different cottage industry factories, and assemble, and that this inevitably lengthens the lead in from announcement to box opening, but it's already been 5 years and several introduction dates have been touted and then quietly dropped.  If the 94xx isn't going to appear until 2020 or later, fine, but come clean and tell us, please.  I am not a marketing person and know little about it, but cannot imagine that this constant carrot dangling and subsequent withdrawal is good marketing, and doing what you said you were going to but then not doing it when you said you were going to do it two or three times is never going to be good marketing.  If Baccy are waiting for the market, fine, but front up and be honest about it.  

 

I really hope somebody who can react faster, such as Oxford or Hatton's, beats them to it with a good rendition, it'll serve 'em right!

 

None of which will stop me buying the loco when it eventually appears.  £200 might, though!  I am increasingly grateful for your donation of Lima bodies for my Limbach, a satisfying thing to build and not too bad a model considering...

 

I will continue to unashamedly bang on about the 94xx on this forum in the hope that I am helping to make them aware of the bad impression they are creating.  I have little sympathy with the idea that the UK market 'moans'; we have had years of being fed models inferior in detail and performance to those available in Europe and the US and are right to insist on quality.  We are, I accept, congenitally unable to pay the prices required for good models without moaning about it; it is part of the British Disease to demand a Pullman service for Mileage rates.  It costs what it costs, and what it costs is getting more expensive.  

 

I am, to broaden the discussion a little but vaguely still on topic, beginning to wonder if the Chinese production model has not outpriced itself, is now unable to perform within the required time scales, and UK production might be cheaper and more convenient, so long as it could be done without a return to the low standards it was previously associated with.

 

reply deleted.

Edited October 23, 2018 by tomparryharry

[Fenman]

...

No, the smart money still is on a limited range of new items from Hornby in 2019 as they continue to seek to stabilise themselves financially and deal with the unknown economic impact of Brexit.

 

I'm prepared to take a modest wager that you are wrong, as all the "consolidation year" oracles have been over the last decade. What do you propose the wager should be?

 

The reason is clear: if Hornby announces nothing, it generates little money from repeat runs of older models that have lost their exciting newness. How does Hornby then service its mountain of debt?

 

It seems to me that Hornby has only one round of the game left: it needs to go all-in or it will be bust. How can not releasing anything new help it generate the cash it needs (let alone profits)? I am a sentimental soul so would really prefer Hornby to survive and thrive (even before thinking about the nice people that work there). Sitting on their hands while the debt mountain behind them threatens to collapse is not the way I'd go.

 

Paul

[Wickham Green]

Showing as TBA on the availability list on the Bachmann website.

To Be Absent - until proven present ......................

[JSpencer]

Something of a stab at an explanation here.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87703-Bachmann-announce-ffafga-early-container-flats/page-15&do=findComment&comment=3338741

 

Maybe the delays are down to Kader allocating production slots???

 

Maybe Kader has took on some of the additional work released after the recent surprise closure of of a production facility???

 

Maybe Kader don't like the moaning British market???

 

Maybe Kader are just slow???

 

Maybe I spend too much time speculating???

 

P

Bachmann were slow in the 1990s. How many years did we wait for the N class, the Mickey Mouse tank and others?

 

They then speeded up. Must have looked good in Kader's books selling lots of stuff in the UK market. During that time quality increased immensely but not prices (by much). Some accountant at Kader saw something wrong and boom, big price increases and the UK is probably seen less profitable/less important than it was.

 

Reruns seem easy enough to spill off the lines (maybe Kernow was not expecting Bachmann to churn out exclusive 37s and 47s as fast as they did), but all new items drag on. Perhaps the engineers for the latter are few and far between preferring the more lucrative electronics industry.

[Andy Y]

It is frustrating to sit here and read such silly speculations when the reality is that Bachmann have some unforeseen issues to work through. In that context they deserve support and tolerance rather than criticism and accusation.

 

At our annual Press Day held at the Churnet Valley Railway on Friday 31st August 2018, we outlined that our parent company, Kader, had opened a new model railway production facility in Gaobu to supplement the existing facilities at Shenzen and Dongguan.

 

Although the Kader site in Dongguan was earmarked for redevelopment by the local authority, it was expected that production would continue in the medium-term whilst the new sites came onstream.

 

Unfortunately, we have been asked to vacate the site sooner than previously indicated and to facilitate this, staff from other locations have been engaged in the transfer of machinery, tooling and materials to the new Gaobu site.

This will regretfully lead to a temporary reduction in production capacity whilst reorganisation of our production facilities takes place, this is reflected in the information that is communicated to our customers and consumers.

 

Once the reorganisation is complete we shall be in a stronger position, with increased production capacity, that will allow us to deliver those models that are still outstanding, along with many more that are currently in development.

 

In the meantime, the following items are currently in transit and are expected to be released during the remainder of 2018: OO scale – Class H1, H2 & C1 Atlantics, Class 37 ‘EuroPhoenix’, BR Mk1 POT Coaches, BR Mk2F Coaches (all types), FFA/FGA ‘Freightliner Flats’ and BR Mk1 Horseboxes. Further supplies of the N scale Class 3F ‘Jinty’ Locomotives are also due to arrive.

 

[JSpencer]

Given Hornby's well publicised financial woes - AND all the uncertainty caused by no Brexit deal having been done with only just over 4 months to go till we crash out of the EU I think its a little foolish / unrealistic to expect too much in the way of new releases at this years Warley show (or even the 2019 catalogues).

 

As stated elsewhere, all new items are likely to secure sales. But only if they can get them into production after developing them. Anything all new Bachmann announces in March (or whenever they make their announcement) won,t be seen for years though we could end up with a rerun of something in a livery I like (which won,t to everyone's tastes for sure). I think I,m pretty fixed on what I can potentially buy from Bachmann next year.

Hornby has 3 items from this year dragging into early next year. Unless they get the supply issues sharpened (it did happen last year), the probability of something all new, that I would like coming out before 2020 is low but not impossible. There are at least 4 loco classes in their range that I would buy a rerun of if in certainly names or liveries but again these are more my taste than the general market.

 

Of the remainder, Hattons and Accurascale could spring something I want at any point between now and halfway through 2019 and actually get it out before 2019 is over.

Dapol and Heljan have a few things on my list I will see in 2019. Anything rerun which I would actually like announced early in the year might just about arrive before the end of 2019 but new tooling unlikely.

There could be wild card from the remainder but I,m not confident.

[Steamport Southport]

Well, Hornby have, I understand, measured up the 94xx at Swindon museum. Although I saw some photos, it does need third -party verification.

 

There you go.

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/a-researchers-tale

 

 

I can't see them revisiting it though.

 

 

 

Jason

[phil-b259]

I'm prepared to take a modest wager that you are wrong, as all the "consolidation year" oracles have been over the last decade. What do you propose the wager should be?

 

The reason is clear: if Hornby announces nothing, it generates little money from repeat runs of older models that have lost their exciting newness. How does Hornby then service its mountain of debt?

 

It seems to me that Hornby has only one round of the game left: it needs to go all-in or it will be bust. How can not releasing anything new help it generate the cash it needs (let alone profits)? I am a sentimental soul so would really prefer Hornby to survive and thrive (even before thinking about the nice people that work there). Sitting on their hands while the debt mountain behind them threatens to collapse is not the way I'd go.

 

Paul

 

Please show me where I said Hornby would release 'nothing' - as you say they still need products to sell BUT they cannot afford to have them sitting round on shelves for ages - nor can they go round promising what they cannot deliver.

 

Have a look at the class 87 - they announced that as new for 2018, yet the Virgin variant has now slipped to 2019.

 

Therefore its most likely that Hornby's plans for 2019 will be modest - a couple of newly tooled locos, maybe a totally new coach or two and possibly a new wagon, plus a smattering of re-releases in new liveries / numbers. Not 'nothing' but equally hardly an extensive set of new releases either.

 

Certainly  Hornby are not in any position to repeat the glory years before 2008 when we say lots of new stuff appearing every year (e.g. 4 Maunsell coach types, each with 4 different running numbers in 2 different liveries all appearing within 12 months of each other for example).

 

To drag this thread back on topic - I would suggest much the same situation will occur with Bachmann - though they are even worse when it comes to the backlog of previously announced models....

Edited October 23, 2018 by phil-b259

[Porcy Mane]

It is frustrating to sit here and read such silly speculations when the reality is that Bachmann have some unforeseen issues to work through. In that context they deserve support and tolerance rather than criticism and accusation.

 

 

Andy it's good to see you place that quote in this thread.

 

With RMweb being so large and having so much traffic I think it's a fair bet to say there are a good many that will not have been aware of it. To see this thread (that I assume many may have seen as been informative and non controversial) pulled with no explanation could only lead to speculation, that being the nature of forums.

 

Perhaps if an explanation with a link to your quote when the thread was first removed there would have been no silly speculation and all would be sweetness & light.

 

P

[Andy Y]

Perhaps if an explanation with a link to your quote when the thread was first removed there would have been no silly speculation and all would be sweetness & light.

It was necessary to shelve the topic which was already getting daft, pending a response from Bachmann (bear in mind this was on a Sunday). I had more important personal things to be doing on that day than babysit conspiracy theorists.