Highland Mainline formations 1948

[ossy5190]

After seeing a photograph of ex-Southern Railway 34004 Yeovil at Perth in 1948 during the locomotive exchange trials I started thinking about how I could model the train. My main interest in the pre-grouping era so 1948 is a little outside my comfort zone! What would be a typical Highland Mainline train formation for this period? I have seen pictures of trains made of LMS and LNER coaches around this time but none are clear enough to make out the carriage types. I know pre-grouping dining cars and ex-Pullmans were used well into the 1950s but I'm not sure about the mix of pre-grouping/LMS stock in use.

 

Many Thanks

 

Ross

[sulzer27jd]

After seeing a photograph of ex-Southern Railway 34004 Yeovil at Perth in 1948 during the locomotive exchange trials I started thinking about how I could model the train. My main interest in the pre-grouping era so 1948 is a little outside my comfort zone! What would be a typical Highland Mainline train formation for this period? I have seen pictures of trains made of LMS and LNER coaches around this time but none are clear enough to make out the carriage types. I know pre-grouping dining cars and ex-Pullmans were used well into the 1950s but I'm not sure about the mix of pre-grouping/LMS stock in use.

 

Many Thanks

 

Ross

 

 

Ross, I would suggest your first port of call to be this site - https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock/info

 

It provides the train marshalling arrangements for the ScR in 1948, which will give the basic formations. 

 

The HR mainline was complicated to operate as it had two routes to Inverness, both of which operated through coaches. This led to a mix of ex LMS and LNER stock, for which the LNER had set vehicles with compatible corridor connections. This has been discussed and from memory, I think it is in this thread - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65351-the-glenfarg-route/?hl=glenfarg. [see Page 7 which includes the 48 Carriage information] A great deal of shunting and re-marshalling took place in Perth.

 

There are a couple of things to bear in mind for that era. There was still considerable pre-grouping stock available, which was often used to strengthen the marshalling instructions and the ScR applied the maxim that if it moved, use it. That and between Perth and Inverness there seemed to be a limitless supply of Black 5's to pull whatever was required. My father still tells stories describing monstrous trains coming into Perth from Inverness, with multiple Black 5's. These being replaced with a Stanier Pacific returning south.

 

I am sure there will be much more information on tap here as required, but this might give you a start.

 

John

Edited October 22, 2018 by sulzer27jd

[Argos]

Hi,

 

I have a vague recollection that GWR stock also found its way into the formations.

 

Might not have taken my pills that day though......

[ossy5190]

Thanks for that link John, some really fascinating photographs on there. 

 

GWR stock is interesting. I know that there were through GWR carriages that ran to Glasgow but I've not heard of them traveling that far north.

 

Ross

[uax6]

I'm unaware of GW vehicles heading that far north (apart from a railmotor in WW1).

 

Here's a copy of a PM to Ross for others interest:

 

In 'The locomotive exchanges' by CJA there is a picture of Yeovil cresting Druimuachdar, sadly the picture isn't that clear. The train is: LNER dyno car, three stanier end door coaches, a stanier brake 3rd (I guess, its a 1/3 brake, 2/3rds passenger), two more stanier end doors, two vehicles of different body texture(gresleys?), followed by two more steel clad vehicles and with a van of some sort pulling up the rear.

 

Below it is a picture of B1 61292 pulling out of Perth, the first vehicles being: LNWR top light elliptical roof full brake, gresley corridor brake with passenger accommodation, and then another gresley vehicle. The rest of the train being invisible.

 

The text doesn't mention vehicle types but does say that it was 12 vehicles to Aviemore, then 9 onwards to Inverness. The week before the tests the Aberfeildy coach was run as normal making the train 13 vehicles to Ballinluig, but this coach was left off for the tests.

 

Andy G

[DCB]

After seeing a photograph of ex-Southern Railway 34004 Yeovil at Perth in 1948 during the locomotive exchange trials I started thinking about how I could model the train. My main interest in the pre-grouping era so 1948 is a little outside my comfort zone! What would be a typical Highland Mainline train formation for this period? I have seen pictures of trains made of LMS and LNER coaches around this time but none are clear enough to make out the carriage types. I know pre-grouping dining cars and ex-Pullmans were used well into the 1950s but I'm not sure about the mix of pre-grouping/LMS stock in use.

 

Many Thanks

 

Ross

Its very much like the GWR as train formations depend which bit of the Highland Main Line you are modelling.  The huge cavalcades of coaches moved primarily between Aviemore and Perth over Druimochter(?) about 100 miles (?)  North of Aviemore the line splits into the mountainous direct Carr Bridge route to Inverness and the slightly less steep Dava Moor route to Forres where trains could further divide for Inverness and for Elgin etc to the East. South of Perth trains often divided into Edinburgh and Glasgow portions while the Sleeping Car trains for England went down the middle of the central belt and served neither Glasgow nor Edinburgh.  Each portion needs a Handbrake to stop the coaches wandering off while being shunted so there will be at least 4 Brake coaches in many formations.  A "Brake" coach is one with a Handbrake. They all have power brakes but you need a Handbake as the air or vacuum leaks away when a coach is uncoupled from the vacuum or air supply.   The HML had a reasonable train service (compared to the West Highlands three per day). As stated above LMS and LNER corridor connections and buffing gear differed, the corridor needed an adaptor plate and the LMS used side buffers and the LNER the central Buck eye coupler with side buffers retracted just like BR Mk1s etc.  it must have been awkward to drop the LNER Buckeye coupling and bring the side buffers and the screw coupling into use on a typical Scottish night of horizontal gale force snowfall and minus ten temperatures with winter being even worse.  Hence I believe the LNER built or adapted stock to have screw couplings and LMS style corridors.

Normally I would say refer to photographs, but no one photographs the whole train, so maybe refer to the timetable.

From memory the 1948 exchanges train was a light weight day train, it had to be if a single class 5 was rostered.

 

Its a great shame the GWR Hall was not tested as Stephenson gear gives a "Fatter" indicator diagram (more torque) at Highland climbing speeds, also a great shame Bulleid didn't apply some common sense and space his 3 cylinders power impulses at 120 degrees to get good starting, as Raven, Gresley, Robinson, etc did, instead of using a 120 degree crank with an inclined cylinder.  It doesn't take a genius to work out that was not a good idea.

 

If Yeovil went up through Carr Bridge unassisted then that part of the train should make a manageable model.

[uax6]

 

Normally I would say refer to photographs, but no one photographs the whole train, so maybe refer to the timetable.

From memory the 1948 exchanges train was a light weight day train, it had to be if a single class 5 was rostered.

If Yeovil went up through Carr Bridge unassisted then that part of the train should make a manageable model.

 

As I said I was referring to a photo of one of the actual trains used for the trials.

 

The train selected for the trials was the 4pm Perth to Inverness. 4hrs 19mins for 118.5 miles.Stops every station but one after the 23.5 mile run from Perth to Ballinluig. For Yeovil the test week the Aberfeldy coach was left off, the tare thus being 350 tons to Aviemore. Assistance was given from Blair Atholl to Dalnaspidal, normally a pilot was used, but banking was specially authorised. Between Aviemore and Inverness the tare load was appro 265 ton, and no assistance was given.

 

The weights of the train varied for the runs for the different engines: For Perth to Aviemore: july 13th 34004 tare 361, july 20th 61292 tare 354, july 14th

44799 tare 407.

Aviemore-> Inverness: july 13th 34004 tare 263 tons, july 20th 61292 tare 263 tons.

Inverness -> Aviemore: july 14th 34004 tare 248 tons, july 21st 61292 tare 251 tons.

Aviemore -> Perth: july 14th 34004 tare 356 tons, july 21st 61292 tare 352 tons.

 

There is a whole chapter in CJA's book devoted to the Highland trials, from which more details can be found.

 

Andy G