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Bonsai RhB in Nm9


PaulRhB
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2 hours ago, backofanenvelope said:

Great I was hoping so. :D Are you planning scenic loop i.e alp grim or hidden?

Talking of Alp Grim or more accurately Alp Grum, why is there a 'sort of' loop (not enough clearance for two trains to pass) on the tight curve?

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20 minutes ago, simonmcp said:

Talking of Alp Grim or more accurately Alp Grum, why is there a 'sort of' loop (not enough clearance for two trains to pass) on the tight curve?

It maximises the loop as the point was before the main part of the curve before. The new arrangement had to be gradual due to the tight curvature. I think it gave them another potential couple of coach lengths with the more powerful Allegra’s. 
 

There’s a nice before and after comparison on this site near the top of the page. 
http://www.spoorgroepzwitserland.nl/regio-mid/regio-midden-bernina/en-bb-alp-gruem.htm

 

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57 minutes ago, simonmcp said:

Talking of Alp Grim or more accurately Alp Grum, why is there a 'sort of' loop (not enough clearance for two trains to pass) on the tight curve?

 

Oooops, Damn auto correct on my gadget..

 

47 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Arosa Branch on this one ;) 

 

Good.. Im now noodling some bit of paper around.

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3 hours ago, Glorious NSE said:

I think it also let's them use a fairly standard point installed on straight track the other end of the curve, rather than something highly bespoke installed half way round a really sharp curve. 

 

I'm sure that's the reason - separation of the point and curvature  - its somewhat analogous to a number of tramway systems that have a point and a short length of interlaced (gauntlet) track to move the point blades out of the road, where they are subjected to damage from traffic, into a rail only segregated area. The Midland metro at the Wolverhampton end had an example of this - my photo of which was my first published photo - in the Institute of Permanent Way Engineers magazine no less!

 

jon

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After Jim’s amazing work rate on wagons I’ve been working up artwork for the containers and cement tanks for the decals. Test print drying. 

 

 

 

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I’m intrigued by Nm9 and some of the layouts here in the Swiss Forum on RMweb.  I’m just trying to get my head round the concept, but can’t lay my hand (finger) on the information I’m trying to absorb, so I hope it’s Ok to ask a couple of basic questions here that have no doubt been covered elsewhere (or earlier): this seemed the best thread to ask in, if that’s OK?
 

If I understand it correctly, Kato have developed a range based on Swiss Metre Gauge prototypes using N Scale (I think the Japanese is 1:150) and running on standard 9mm track.  This enables them to use the best of N-Scale technology as well as readily available standard gauge track to make Swiss Metre Gauge modelling accessible, both from a space and a budget point of view (both factors likely to be popular in Japan, as well as keeping export costs reasonable, I guess).

 

The necessary compromise on gauge (which scales to 1.35m) can be accommodated because prototype rolling stock bodies are wide enough, and a lot of the prototypes are quite well ‘skirted’ which helps hide the bogies anyway.

 

Have I got that right?
 

If so, I wonder what this range looks like when side by side with standard gauge N-scale SBB models - are they interchangeable, or is the difference noticeable?
 

I’m afraid I’m not familiar enough with Swiss Railways to be able to tell which is which just from a photo, so I may have seen some examples here on RMweb without realising it.

 

Hope it’s OK to ask - I’m not planning a(nother) layout project, but want to better understand what I’m seeing (and am very impressed with) in this small scale.  Thanks, Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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3 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

If I understand it correctly, Kato have developed a range based on Swiss Metre Gauge prototypes using N Scale (I think the Japanese is 1:150) and running on standard 9mm track.  This enables them to use the best of N-Scale technology as well as readily available standard gauge track to make Swiss Metre Gauge modelling accessible, both from a space and a budget point of view (both factors likely to be popular in Japan, as well as keeping export costs reasonable, I guess).

Correct

 

4 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

The necessary compromise on gauge (which scales to 1.35m) can be accommodated because prototype rolling stock bodies are wide enough, and a lot of the prototypes are quite well ‘skirted’ which helps hide the bogies anyway.

 

Have I got that right?

Yep

 

4 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

If so, I wonder what this range looks like when side by side with standard gauge N-scale SBB models - are they interchangeable, or is the difference noticeable?

Before the range expanded and people like Jim provided us with 3D prints several were using cut n shut N gauge stock for coaches and freight as they were to virtually identical designs but longer. 
The N being 1/160 and Nm9 being 1/150 meant they are pretty much identical in size. 

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6 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Correct

 

Yep

 

Before the range expanded and people like Jim provided us with 3D prints several were using cut n shut N gauge stock for coaches and freight as they were to virtually identical designs but longer. 
The N being 1/160 and Nm9 being 1/150 meant they are pretty much identical in size. 


Thanks Paul - I suppose what I should now have a look for are prototype photos of Swiss standard gauge and metre gauge locos side by side to see how different they are (or aren’t) in real life to complete the picture for me.  Thanks again, Keith.

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10 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I suppose what I should now have a look for are prototype photos of Swiss standard gauge and metre gauge locos side by side

Not that easy to find ;)

 

A Re4/4ii is 2970mm wide and a RhB Ge4/4ii is 2650mm wide. 
When scaled by 1/160 and 1/150 that works out to 18.5 and 17.6mm wide so less than a mm difference. 

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Comparison shots are a bit difficult, not lest because a lot of the SBB/RhB shots in Chur show SBB Dopplestock, whuch is hardly a fair comparison, but try these

 

SBB RE4/4 in red, with RhB Ge4/4 nearer in yellow

https://www.rail-pictures.com/bild/switzerland~rhaetian-railway-rhb~main-line/6302/sbb-re-44-ii-and-rhb.html

 

SBB left RhB right

 

http://jonathansworldlyimages.com/wp-content/gallery/switzerland-dec-2014-151214/2014-extra-3112.jpg

 

Rhb Right, Std gauge ICE and TEE

https://www.historic-rhb.ch/assets/images/c/100 Jahre RhB-5d6c755c.jpg

 

and RhB right, SBB Dopplestock left

 

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/710965/

 

Jon

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1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Not that easy to find ;)

 

A Re4/4ii is 2970mm wide and a RhB Ge4/4ii is 2650mm wide. 
When scaled by 1/160 and 1/150 that works out to 18.5 and 17.6mm wide so less than a mm difference. 

 

Thank you - a useful comparison.
 

 

1 hour ago, jonhall said:

SBB RE4/4 left, Rhb GE4/4 right

 

 

0118457.jpg?itok=YSkjh7pa


I’ll guess this may be a publicity photo, noting the absence of overhead lines as well as the ‘staging’.  I also noted the mixed gauge track in this and a couple of the other photos - but as I’d expressed an interest in side-by-side photos that’s not a surprise.  Interesting stuff - the more I learn about Swiss Railways and modelling them, the more there is to appreciate.

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It's also worth noting to help with your sizing comparisons that in some of the pictures you can see that the OHL is the same height for both SBB and RhB. 

 

For another visual comparison, the RhB also has some piggyback wagons for carrying standard gauge wagons as per here linked from flickr: 

'Piggyback' Silos

 

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I realised this morning that the Nm9 stock is designed to go round a 150mm (6”) radius curve*, which is incredibly efficient on space, so with a bit of spare time today I’ve taken the chance to re-read through the whole thread in a bit more detail, and remain very impressed: from what I can tell the overhang on the tight curves in @PaulRhB’s videos is not as obvious as I’d imagine it would be.

 

While I can see challenges in modelling in this small scale, I suppose the invisible overhead electric lines might offer some compensation (ie: they don’t need modelling).

 

(* There’s a Kato 20-150 curve in their N gauge track range which confused me - though this has a very broad radius of 718mm (approx. 28.25”), so I should have known better.  Must pay more attention).

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Further to my earlier posts, I’ve been thinking about Kato RhB with a view to a desktop layout, as my plans for anything larger keep running into delays due to space problems.  How the needs of the family keep changing faster than I can build baseboards has been well document elsewhere on RMweb!

I’ve had a valuation done on items I’d need to sell for an additional interest, and while I was pleased with the worth of some of my stock, overall I’d still be short of what I’d really want to get started.

So although I’ll continue to be interested in the concept and look forwards to seeing more projects and layouts in Nm9, I’ll need to buy a rail pass so I can ride as a passenger rather than join those who are driving the train.  Thanks, Keith.

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50441716921_f5594e5487_b.jpg

with a module system having a fixed backscene limits turning modules round as they need to be removable or very low . I wondered if it would be possible to put the image behind, or in the middle of a group of modules so there’s room for operators either in front or behind. At a show or if standing outside it would provide more of the scene and particularly with the Swiss mountains give more of a sense of the vertical scenery. So assuming the scene is printed on a 4ft deep banner hung from a simple fold up 2x1 timber frame approx 5-10ft long and about 5 ½ - 6ft high this is what I came up with. 

 

 

Musings on backscenes

 

Musings on backscenes

 

Musings on backscenes

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

Aren't generic large roll-out exhibition style backgrounds with support frames a thing already?

Well yes on trade stands but they are phenomenally expensive and don’t really pack small, they’re just fast to pop up! ;) You’d be looking at £1000+ for something the size I’m thinking of and I can get a 4ft deep banner of suitable length for around £100+ which is a significant saving. The image and frame are the challenge ;) 

 

1 hour ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

A 6ft high back ground from floor level stretching the length of a modular layout would be a site to see.

;) and to transport! That’s why I’m seeing what I can get away with. I used banners on my G scale Harz, they were a little crude but ideas have developed. 

5ECE1B75-F744-484B-B1D8-BA3F90FE14E1.jpeg.679e564fe457448957f3d7131b7ad8d2.jpeg

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Two things came to mind.

1. Brian Harraps backscene apron he wears when behind his layout.

2. A 'coffee table' layout I saw at a show with the operators sitting in arm chairs and banners behind them of a full size photo of their living room, fireplace, bookshelves and all 

 

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On 06/09/2021 at 11:36, JimFin said:

How about a couple of these? https://www.digitalprinting.co.uk/products/1500mm-wide/86/  about £250 but ae complete and easily portable?

 

Apart from the cost they are single sided while the idea I have is to wrap the banner around both sides and surround it, or at least sides and one end, with modules.

I’m not so worried about instant assembly like those offer, something that takes ten minutes to assemble is fine.  I did look at these a couple of years ago but for something used three or four times a year maximum is more than I want to pay really when I can spend it on the layout itself ;) 

 

On 06/09/2021 at 12:04, Ian Morgan said:

Brian Harraps backscene apron he wears when behind his layout.

Even with my appetite for cake I’m not quite 10ft wide yet :lol:

 

Backscenes

 

 

I did a backscene for my 009 modules for photos and that ended up 4ft long to fill the background in photos, Brian’s apron is only really suitable for close ups ;)

 


 

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