I'm a Yankee Mogul Dandy...

[LNWR18901910]

Tim Watson did make a Baldwin mogul in 2mm but it was a GNR one which was somewhat different in detail from the Midland ones. The Schenectady in MRJ was my 7mm MR No. 2517. If anyone is interested I will try to post some photographs of it. Tim and I corresponded many times about the Baldwins and he gave me some of the photographs that I used in the Wild Swan book.

 

Dave

Yes, please! I'd love to! I've always wondered what they look like.

[Dave Hunt]

Why, yes. Please do, that would be a big help.

I've finally got round to scanning the drawings from the Midland Record supplement that I wrote and am attaching them here. I haven't had time yet to look for the originals that I drew twenty odd years ago but if I do find them I'll let you know. In the meantime I hope this helps; if you'd like email copies, again let me know and I'll PM them to you.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

PS; Sorry some of the images are upside down - I've tried turning them over but it doesn't work.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'm sure there were drawings in Railway Modeller in the 1980s.

May 1985 to be precise. It was the first issue I bought as a kid.

[Dave Hunt]

Yes, please! I'd love to! I've always wondered what they look like.

Some photographs attached of my 7mm model of a Schenectady mogul. I built it nearly 30 years ago as a finescale model then converted it to Scaleseven some five or so years later. It's powered by a Maxxon motor in the firebox driving a home-made gearbox and the outside rocking shafts are driven by eccentrics on the driving axle. Wheels are from AGH castings that Alan made for me and I turned up. The crimson lake paint is from a Derby firm called Joseph Masons who used to supply the Midland and state that the colour (although called at the time in their catalogue as Mercedes Red) is correct. It was discovered by David White and I bought a can of it that I still use, Lining is Humbrol matt straw colour applied with a bow pen and brushes then the black is done variously with a Rotring pen and brush painted before the whole lot is varnished over. I'm afraid that my photographic skills aren't up to much but the pictures give some idea of what the engines were like.

 

Dave

[jamie92208]

Having just discovered this topic you may well be interested in a photo of a model of a Baldwin mogul.   It was built in 7mm, from David's drawings by Ray Clasper from the Wakefield Club.   I'm now fortunate enough to own it and it runs on Lancaster Green Ayre.

 

This is the best photo that I've got of it but if you are interested I can take some more photos next week when I'm having a running session.

Ray also built a Schenectady for a friend of mine.

 

Jamie

[Dave Hunt]

Having just discovered this topic you may well be interested in a photo of a model of a Baldwin mogul.   It was built in 7mm, from David's drawings by Ray Clasper from the Wakefield Club.   I'm now fortunate enough to own it and it runs on Lancaster Green Ayre.

 

150821-3.jpg

This is the best photo that I've got of it but if you are interested I can take some more photos next week when I'm having a running session.

Ray also built a Schenectady for a friend of mine.

 

Jamie

I'd like to see it please.

 

Dave Hunt

[LNWR18901910]

Having just discovered this topic you may well be interested in a photo of a model of a Baldwin mogul.   It was built in 7mm, from David's drawings by Ray Clasper from the Wakefield Club.   I'm now fortunate enough to own it and it runs on Lancaster Green Ayre.

 

150821-3.jpg

This is the best photo that I've got of it but if you are interested I can take some more photos next week when I'm having a running session.

Ray also built a Schenectady for a friend of mine.

 

Jamie

Yes, yes please do!

[jamie92208]

It now resides with the layout on France but I will get some photos next week and post them. Just off to Orleans to see what a French show looks like.

 

Jamie

[Joseph_Pestell]

It now resides with the layout on France but I will get some photos next week and post them. Just off to Orleans to see what a French show looks like.

 

Jamie

 

Orleans traditionally one of the best shows in France.

[Steamport Southport]

May 1985 to be precise. It was the first issue I bought as a kid.

 

So I wasn't imagining it.

 

Almost certainly not authentic, but I've always imagined them pulling the Midland Railway American Pullmans.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[jamie92208]

I had a very enjoyable visit to the Orleans show and then had the village Remembrance ceremony yesterday, which in true French fashion ended up back at the town hall sampling the liquid harvest that grows hereabouts.   This morning gardening was cancelled due to th liquid sunshine so I had chance to photogrpah the Baldwin.   

 

As I mentioned previously it was built by Ray Clasper.  It is mainly plasticard but he turned his own brass fittings. It has performed on both Long Preston and Lancaster Green Ayre and has run many real miles. The legend for it appearing on a layout set in 1923 was that the shed staff at Green Ayre had kept it as a pet during WW1.   It has usually pulled the down cattle empties heading for Heysham with a scratchbuilt 6 wheel Cattleman's brake on the rear. It coped admirably with 22 wagons on Long Preston but due to shorter fiddle yard roads has 17 on on Green Ayre, most of them wighted to about 5 ozs. I think that it was built in about 2002.

 

Here are various shots of it from different angles.

 

And one final photo of it on it's train.

 

It's only vice is that it could use tender pick ups but fitting them to those bogies would be a pain.

 

Jamie

[Spitfire2865]

 

 

It's only vice is that it could use tender pick ups but fitting them to those bogies would be a pain.

 

Jamie

You could go the American route and have each truck pick up from one rail with the other side insulated.  No wipers and easy wiring to the bolster pin.  

[jamie92208]

You could go the American route and have each truck pick up from one rail with the other side insulated.  No wipers and easy wiring to the bolster pin.  

 

That's not a bad idea, now the loco belongs to me I can do things like that.  I'll have a look.

 

Jamie

[Dave Hunt]

Most of my locomotives (including, appropriately I suppose, the Schenectady) use the so-called 'American' pickup system. The Schenectady picks up from one rail with the pony truck and tender whilst the drivers pick up from the other. If you spring the wheels so that they are constantly in contact with the rails the system works fine and is simple to use.

 

Dave

 

PS - like the Baldwin Jamie

Edited November 12, 2018 by Dave Hunt

[Spitfire2865]

Ive honestly never liked the traditional American style of pickups.  But for tenders where you may have several axles dragging on the pickup wires, I can see its appeal.  

[jamie92208]

Ive honestly never liked the traditional American style of pickups.  But for tenders where you may have several axles dragging on the pickup wires, I can see its appeal.  

 

I've got problems with American style due to a system that I use that hands control between sections on the layout and you can have problems with tender locos.   However the suggestion of using the American style on the two tender bogies does appeal.   I've been test running this afternoon and the Baldwin has been somewhat reluctant to move so it will have to have some attention anyway. Even though my layout is 1923 ish Midland I do have a couple of big black thigs labelled for the Union Pacific and they don't like the handover sections.  What happens is that trains run into the fiddle yard and as long as the exit point are set against them they come to a dead stop automatically at the section break between the receiving track and the exit section.   If the tender is still the wrong side of the section break then the train won't re start.   

 

Jamie

[LNWR18901910]

Here it is, for my 500th post.

 

I was saving the finished product for a surprise, but this date should be a reference to the classification this locomotive once had.

 

And now, the work so far - it wasn't easy as my friend and I had to measure it up. So now, thankfully it looks bang-accurate with one or two compromises.

 

 

I know it's not done yet, but it's getting there. I have decided on the Midland Railway Crimson lake livery. I decided on a running number 2516 as a reference to one of the original source images for inspiration.

 

[LNWR18901910]

And here it is! My Midland Railway Yankee Mogul is nearing completion! I just applied the livery on it now.

The decals and lining have yet to be added after the second coat and the model still works fine. Stay tuned for more on it as it develops!

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

You've got me thinking now, I've always fancied the GN version.

 

manna

[chris p bacon]

G'Day Gents

 

You've got me thinking now, I've always fancied the GN version.

 

manna

 

I have a plan...a very cunning plan...

[LNWR18901910]

G'Day Gents

 

You've got me thinking now, I've always fancied the GN version.

 

manna

Did I, now?

[DCB]

The Midland had to scrap the Moguls quickly as they made the Midland's other locos look positively antique.  And they didn't have 8ft + 8ft 6" driving wheel spacing which was written in stone when Derby works was built in 1544.    They were goods engines which had pony trucks and could run passenger trains without falling on their sides something Deeleys Flatiron 0-6-4Ts couldn't manage, and they had cabs.   Imagine the cost of fitting actual cabs to all the Midland's antique 0-6-0s if the drivers got a taste for comfort on the Yankees. Imagine a Kirtley with a side window cab,   It wasn't until 20 years later that the Midland actually had to accept 2-6-0s and then L&Y ones which must have caused much despair in the ale houses of Derby

 

Seriously though the wheelbase really defines these locos and is pretty much the same as the Wrenn R1 0-6-0 so a bit of filing and a High level gearbox in one of those could be a good start point.  The GW Mogul has a short cone taper boiler tapered on the rear ring whereas the Midland is tapered on the front ring for some weird reason which does affect the look so maybe there is a better starting point for an 00 model.

[Dave Hunt]

Just to dispel a few myths. The Derby 8ft + 8ft 6in wheelbase was adopted because an early works manager had an erecting stand made that enabled very accurate tolerances to be achieved as well as the use of standard fittings and that had such a wheelbase. In later years the wheelbase was often used because the drawing office could more easily satisfy the requirements of the civil engineers by working to a previously accepted arrangement. This is a somewhat simplified explanation but is nearer the truth than the usual "Derby didn't know what they were doing" or "Dead hand of Derby" nonsense that is bandied around. As far as cabs were concerned, Midland drivers seemingly had a dislike of too much protection even in Kirtley's days and there were complaints that the enclosed cabs of the American engines with large amounts of firebox projecting into them were far too hot in anything but very cold weather. It is unlikely that the Moguls were used on anything other than freight trains apart from some empty stock workings and the Flatirons got a bad press regarding road holding, largely because of the Tamworth Mail accident - an old Midland driver named Tom King, whose reminiscences I sub-edited for Midland Record, stated that there was nothing wrong with the engines and that the fault lay in poor track maintenance following WW1. Finally, the main reasons for scrapping the American engines after only a relatively short time were that standard Midland boilers wouldn't fit between their bar frames so when the original ones started wearing out it would have meant either making special flagging blocks etc. or getting replacements from America. Also they had very few standard Midland parts and fittings so overall it was more economical to scrap them. After all, they were only bought as a stop-gap measure when the British locomotive building industry couldn't supply the Railways needs in the late 1890s. Although they were given a poor reception in the British railway press of the time (as was anything American in those days) and it was reported by Johnson that they were heavier on oil consumption and more costly to maintain than other Midland types, his response when asked about them was ,"They worked their trains satisfactorily."

 

I hope that the above, whilst a very brief précis of a more complex subject, gives a more accurate account of the Midland's American Moguls. The other British railways that bought them had similar experiences.

 

Dave Hunt

[Dave Hunt]

Sorry, in my previous post, for "flagging blocks" read "flanging blocks." One of those annoying predictive text things that slipped through.

[Compound2632]

Moreover, it seems to be seen as acceptable to have a go at Midland locomotive practice. Would such outrageously ill-founded and prejudiced remarks be thought acceptable when commenting on the practices of Swindon or Doncaster?