davknigh Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I’m adding a small ironstone quarry to my layout and need some information as to the best way to model ironstone loads and how heavily laden the average 16T mineral wagon would have been loaded. I suspect it would be less than an equivalent load of coal but....I dunno? Can anyone please help or point me in the right direction? I’ve tried the usual searches but most photos were B&W and concentrated on the engines. All assistance gratefully accepted. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 There is a Tippler wagon which is the same size as the standard 16 ton mineral but had no doors. They were rated at 27 tons and alot of them were vac fitted. On top of the wagons built by BR there were wagons built by LMS/LNER/GWR, Ministry of Munitions (World War 1), other Pre 1923 companies and private owners. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 You can reckon on a 13t or 16t mineral being loaded up to about halfway; someone has recently posted a aerial view on here of Toton yard in the 1940s which illustrates this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I’m adding a small ironstone quarry to my layout and need some information as to the best way to model ironstone loads and how heavily laden the average 16T mineral wagon would have been loaded. I suspect it would be less than an equivalent load of coal but....I dunno? Can anyone please help or point me in the right direction? I’ve tried the usual searches but most photos were B&W and concentrated on the engines. All assistance gratefully accepted. Cheers, David Whilst by no means impossible, the use of 16T steel mineral wagons for carrying ironstone was the exception rather than the rule; the specially produced iron ore tipplers were far more common, as were various types of hopper wagons, the latter especially in the Oxfordshire ironstone fields. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 Thanks to all who have replied. I did manage to find some information on my own that was useful http://www.rocks-by-rail.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Ironstone-4-for-print.pdf but still have to find some ideas for a suitable load. Would 0 scale ballast suitably tinted do the trick or is something more coarse needed? Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Thanks to all who have replied. I did manage to find some information on my own that was useful http://www.rocks-by-rail.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Ironstone-4-for-print.pdf but still have to find some ideas for a suitable load. Would 0 scale ballast suitably tinted do the trick or is something more coarse needed? Cheers, David It seemed to vary from quarry to quarry, and the requirements of the destination steelworks. Some sites seemed to load main-line wagons at the quarry face, whilst others crushed the ore before despatch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 It seemed to vary from quarry to quarry, and the requirements of the destination steelworks. Some sites seemed to load main-line wagons at the quarry face, whilst others crushed the ore before despatch. It depends where you live - when I (briefly) modelled an ironstone railway I obtained a piece of ironstone from a worked-out quarry and smashed it up! As one might expect, it's dusty stuff and stained the wagons very realistically. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 It seemed to vary from quarry to quarry, and the requirements of the destination steelworks. Some sites seemed to load main-line wagons at the quarry face, whilst others crushed the ore before despatch. My plan is to load at the quarry face for the practical reason that space is limited so I suppose large lumps will be required. The learning process continues. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 David, the ore appearance will depend heavily on where your quarry is situated geographically. Northamptonshire "Northampton sand" ore is typically lighter in colour (think light grey), whereas ore from South Lincolnshire is typically brighter (think dull earthy orange) and that of Oxfordshire is deeper in colour (think brown). The best bet is to choose an area and then physically get some (try the edges of plowed fields, or better still the woods and areas surrounding old quarries). My forthcoming layout is exclusively a small area of an ironstone quarry and has been in the planning/implementation phase for a few years - so feel free to PM if you'd like photos of anything specific etc. Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted November 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2018 If it is haematite it's a purple/red colour. Go to Barrow in Furness.. a lot of civic buildings there are a good example of the colour. Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Iron oxide is a can of worms for colours. It's a moving feast depending on the amount of water locked into the molecular structure. The rule of thumb is the more water the more yellow. I could boar people with the geological science. Marc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 Thanks again for all the useful answers. The area for the hypothetical quarry is Ayrshire/ Renfrewshire in Scotland which does have a lot of sandstone as can be seen by the buildings in Paisley. I’m a wee bit far off for a quick visit so the wonders of the internet will have to do for the moment. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Did you know the the G&SWR had a fleet of 20ton iron ore all steel hoppers built in 1914 and they would have been still running 40 years later. I have just designed some in Scale 7 for a customer. I will try and see if I can post some of his photos here. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 Did you know the the G&SWR had a fleet of 20ton iron ore all steel hoppers built in 1914 and they would have been still running 40 years later. I have just designed some in Scale 7 for a customer. I will try and see if I can post some of his photos here. Marc This sounds very interesting. I’m assuming you can also do this in 4mm? I look forward to seeing the photos. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 The etched parts could be reduced to 4mm however the axle boxes are at the limit of what I can get printed. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 The etched parts could be reduced to 4mm however the axle boxes are at the limit of what I can get printed. Marc That makes it sound like they were unique. Are there any acceptable cast substitutes considering I am modelling late LMS-early BR? Also I’m working in P4, would that help or hinder? Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 There are Two types of axle boxes fitted from the photos both don't seam to be not common to anything else. The chap who I design the kits for wanted the ABs on the GA. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Don't know whether it applies to the Scottish ores, but a very notable feature of the dragline quarried Northants sands in the Corby supply trains was the size range, everything from practically sand to large bedded chunks which could be a yard on a side. ...I could boar people with the geological science. Throw in some badgering too, knowledge of the underlying geology is often essential to persuasively 'fixing' a layout location. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 My knowledge of Scottish iron mining isn't great but the few photos I have seen show them as underground mines like those in North Yorkshire, Cumberland and north Lancs. those in the southern areas of England are on the whole open cast quarries. The exception being Cornwall and Devon but they sit on very different geology. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warspite Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 David On my proposed 7mm ironstone layout (set in the East Midlands), I'm using Dapol 'O Gauge Iron Ore Load' (ref.: 7S-000-002). Dapol describes it: “This kit contains real iron ore milled to represent iron ore at O Scale.” There are some variations in colour which aren't really showing in my photo of the Peco 27T tippler. As you are modelling in 4mm scale, you may be able to crush it to make it more suitable. Just an idea. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 My knowledge of Scottish iron mining isn't great but the few photos I have seen show them as underground mines like those in North Yorkshire, Cumberland and north Lancs. those in the southern areas of England are on the whole open cast quarries. The exception being Cornwall and Devon but they sit on very different geology. Marc The mines tend to exploit the much denser, reddish-brown, haematite- one of the last sites to win it for steel-making was at Llanharan, between Cardiff and Bridgend. The last deep mine in Cumbria (Cleator Moor, I think) was latterly producing ore for use in pigments and other non-iron-making uses. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Am I correct in thinking that hopper style wagons would have been used for ore that had been processed to some degree and that tipplers and other opens would be more likely to be found at quarries? Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 In later years perhaps David, but there's plenty of photographs of both at quarries up until the early 60's. Paul A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Processing processes depends on the type of iron in the ore. Iron stone needs to be roasted to reduce the iron sulphide to iron oxide so it can be smelted in a blast furnace. The North Yorkshire field just used hoppers. All wood for none processed and iron/steel ones for processed ore. The Furness and Cumberland fields used side tip ore hoppers and the only processing was crushing. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Processing processes depends on the type of iron in the ore. Iron stone needs to be roasted to reduce the iron sulphide to iron oxide so it can be smelted in a blast furnace. The North Yorkshire field just used hoppers. All wood for none processed and iron/steel ones for processed ore. The Furness and Cumberland fields used side tip ore hoppers and the only processing was crushing. Marc I remember reading accounts of the North Staffordshire iron industry; removal of sulphur was done by mixing coal and ore in open 'calcining' hearths, and setting light to the mixture. The effect on the local atmosphere can be imagined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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