POLL: Which industrial steam 0-6-0 should be made in RTR? [Industrial Loco Poll #1]

[Corbs]

INDUSTRIAL LOCO WISHLIST POLL #1

 

Please read this before voting

 

-The aim of these polls is to get some specific loco types to submit to the main wishlist poll team for inclusion in the next poll

-I already know that there is a general demand for industrial 0-6-0 locos, so please limit your vote to 1-5 choices rather than selecting everything, so that we can eliminate the locos with less demand

-You can submit new locos to be added to this poll! Please post the loco and why you think it would be a good choice for an RTR manufacturer, and any pics you can find of said loco (more info at the foot of this post)

 

THANK YOU FOR VOTING!

 
This category is 0-6-0 Steam Locos, there will be more. Thought it best to start here though. I've tried to show detailing variations which could be incorporated as Hattons have done so with their Barclay.
 
The Contenders
 
Manning Wardle L Class
Inside Cylinder
0-6-0ST
 
Examples:
Sir Berkeley
No. 2025 Winston Churchill
 
Weatherboard version

Source: http://www.leedsengine.info/leeds/histmw.asp
 
Cab version

Source: http://www.sodor-island.net/railwayseries/billy.htm
 
RSH Class 56 ('Uglies)
 
Inside Cylinder
0-6-0ST
 
Examples:
No. 63 'Corby' worked at Stewarts and Lloyds, Corby
 

Source: https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/robert-stephenson-hawthorn-works-no-7761-sl-no-63-corby-0-6-0st/
 

Source:
https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/2/ironstone_tramways.htm
 
Hudswell Clarke 1955-era (don't know class name/designation)
Outside Cylinder
0-6-0ST
 
Examples:
No.1885, worked at Mountain Ash

Source: https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/hudswell-clarke-works-no-1885-the-pilling-pig-0-6-0st/
 

Source: https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/hudswell-clarke-works-no-1885-the-pilling-pig-0-6-0st/
 
RSH (Hams Hall)
Outside Cylinder
0-6-0T
 
Examples:
7151 at Avon Valley Railway
That one that's at Hawes Station
That one at Foxfield
 

Source: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76530-arc-models-new-range-of-4mm-scale-products/page-3
 

Source: https://stephensonrailwaymuseum.org.uk/collection/our-collections
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/60790501@N04/5684725948
 
Avonside B3 & B4
Outside Cylinder
0-6-0ST
 
Examples (B3):
The MD&HB locos
B3

Source: https://bristolharbourrailway.co.uk/industrial-railways-of-bristol/avonmouth-docks/

Source: https://ribblesteamrailway.wordpress.com/author/ribblesteam/page/8/

http://www.friendsofaltonstation.org.uk/community/friends-of-alton-station-8100/longmoor-military-railway/
 
Examples (B4):
ISC No.2 at Avonmouth
Portbury
Earl Fitzwilliam/Pitsford
 
Rounded tank variant

Source: https://bristolharbourrailway.co.uk/industrial-railways-of-bristol/imperial-smelting-co/


Source: https://bristolharbourrailway.co.uk/locomotives-and-rolling-stock/portbury/#jp-carousel-1524
 
Straight sided tank variant

Source: http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/RR_Avonside.htm

 
Hunslet MSC 'Jazzer'
Inside Cylinders
0-6-0T
 
Examples:
 
The Lady Armaghdale at the Severn Valley Railway

 

Source: https://wilt.jimdo.com/4-trust-history/

Source: https://www.svrwiki.com/686_The_Lady_Armaghdale

Hunslet 15" and 16" standard types
Inside Cylinders
0-6-0ST
 
Examples:
15" Airedale on the Embsay Railway
16" Beatrice
 
Modified with Porta features

Source: https://www.martynbane.co.uk/modernsteam/ldp/austerity/locophotos.htm
 

Source: https://www.martynbane.co.uk/modernsteam/ldp/austerity/locophotos.htm
 


Source: http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/ArchiveSteam/locobeatrice.htm
 
Peckett B2
 
Examples:
'No.1203 The Earl'
‘Henry’ No.1264 of 1913
 

Source: https://bristolharbourrailway.co.uk/industrial-railways-of-bristol/avonmouth-docks/


Source: Hugh Llewelyn, on Flickr
 
Peckett Type X
Inside Cylinder
0-6-0ST
 
Examples:
Metropolitan Railway locos (old style cab)
Lilleshall

Source: https://www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/locos.htm


Source: https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/LONDON-TRANSPORT-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/i-JbmJhWC
 
 
Andrew Barclay 14" and variants - Side and Saddle Tank
Outside Cylinder
0-6-0ST and 0-6-0T (I believe two locos could be made on a common chassis/mechanism and share several components)
 
Examples:
SADDLE TANK
Swordfish
Salmon
Llantanum Abbey at Mountain Ash

SIDE TANK
1296 at Polkemmet Colliery
1245 at Haverthwaite on the Lakeside & Haverthwaite Railway

SADDLE TANK


Source:Terry Pinnegar, on Flickr
 

Source: http://beamishtransportonline.co.uk/2014/03/ti-news-update-12th-march-2014/
 

http://www.geoffspages.co.uk/raildiary/ma.htm
 
SIDE TANK


Source: https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/1245-andrew-barclay-0-6-0t/

Source: https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/andrew-barclay-works-no-1296-ncb-no-8-0-6-0t/


Hudswell Clarke 1800 Class
0-6-0T
Outside Cylinder
 
Examples:
Thomas at Nene Valley Railway
S100 at Chasewater

S100 fitted with Porta improvements

 
Bagnall 'new Standard 18'
0-6-0ST
Outside Cylinder

Examples:
Victor
Vulcan
Valiant


 
Source: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/misc_indust087.htm

 

Fireless 0-6-0

 

If there is a loco which you think fits the bill and is not on the list, please do let me know! If I have made any glaring errors please point them out and I will do my best to correct them.
 
If you want to vote or suggest a new one, try to think about:
-Does it fill a gap?*
-Can the tooling be used over and over again to recoup set-up investment?
-Can it be adapted to suit multiple prototypes with little detail differences?
 
Also, please bear in mind I am not asking 'name every industrial 0-6-0 you can think of', it's 'what industrial 0-6-0 is a good idea for a manufacturer to make?'
 
*In other words, is it distinct enough from things already on the market? An example of this would be that I don't think any manufacturer considering a new tooling would make a Hunslet 50550 because they are so similar to the Austerity which is already made by 2 manufacturers.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Corbs

[Sandhole]

Nice job Corbs!

                         C.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Ruston
removal of unnecessary photo quote

[Ruston]

Looking at the results so far, 16 people have voted yet 22 votes have been cast. I just went to vote and apparently I can cast a vote for each and every option. Since some people have cast more than one vote the poll is not going to give a proper result. Perhaps the poll should started again but with only one vote per person.

[rope runner]

I think the poll is fine - I would buy a Peckett B2 class, RSH 56 class, Manning Wardle L or 14'' 0-6-0 Barclay if one became available rtr.

 

To choose my favorite out of that list and to vote once would probably not give meaningful data, as I am a potential customer for several options. I would probably also choose something at the niche end of those listed too...

 

Paul A. 

[Corbs]

Looking at the results so far, 16 people have voted yet 22 votes have been cast. I just went to vote and apparently I can cast a vote for each and every option. Since some people have cast more than one vote the poll is not going to give a proper result. Perhaps the poll should started again but with only one vote per person.

It’s a good point and I did deliberate about it beforehand, merits to each way around. But I have decided to do it this way.

[Ruston]

Fair enough, Paul. As a potential customer I too would vote for more than one, as, I guess, would many others but I thought the idea was to find out which one is the most popular. Doesn't having the ability to cast from one single vote to as many as one vote per entry mean that the result shows the least popular, rather than the most?

 

If one entry ends up with more votes than the others it doesn't guarantee that more people have voted for it I just means that more votes have been cast. If everyone cast the same amount of votes - say three votes per person, so that you were picking your top three out of the list, then that would be fair but 22 votes from 16 voters proves that some are having a greater influence than others. As it is we could all cast a vote for each entry and then the poll would be meaningless. If everyone had to use the same amount of votes it would give a clearer and fairer result.

 

One thing is for certain and that is that this whole business is very complex and the more it goes on the more I understand why the original poll team left it all so vague.

[Corbs]

True, but one would hope that people understand that voting for all of them would be the same as voting for none of them.

Ideally a top 3 would be an option but it wasn’t.

I’d like to see how this plays out and if future polls need a single vote then that’s fine. In this poll I only need to look at the results of any one loco relative to the others.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Corbs

[Walkden]

Hudswell Clark  No 1885 gets my vote , think it was the only one of its type produced, a powerful 18 inch cylinder loco ,  with nice proportions , shame it sits on a plinth and not running , 

one day maybe ..... 

[Nearholmer]

The first loco on the list probably has strong appeal to light railwayists, who might not be tempted in by the thread title. Probably one reason why Ixion(?) are making an MW in 0 gauge.

[Corbs]

It’s worth doing a shout-out thread in that part of the forum then?

[Captain Kernow]

I don't know which one to vote for first - 'all of the above', please!

[Nearholmer]

Corbs

 

Your challenge is that I don't think that LRs have a special niche on RMWeb; they lurk in multiple different corners.

 

Expand your thread/poll title?

 

Kevin

[brack]

A minor correction,but ISC no. 1 is not a Hunslet Jazzer, but the short tank version of the hudswell Clarke MSC design (hence it doesn't look quite so nice, and it's very HC bunker).

[Dan Griffin]

Its not on the list but a hudswell clarke 1800 class, as in ‘thomas’ at the NVR. Its a loco ive always wanted.

[Corbs]

Its not on the list but a hudswell clarke 1800 class, as in ‘thomas’ at the NVR. Its a loco ive always wanted.

Heya, is it the same class as NCB S100?

 

ISC No.1 duly corrected. I did wonder if the Hunslet and HC locos could be made from the same basic loco.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The first loco on the list probably has strong appeal to light railwayists, who might not be tempted in by the thread title. Probably one reason why Ixion(?) are making an MW in 0 gauge.

 I will probably offend most of the 'industrial specialists' here, but IMO this is 'the one' in that list, something that clearly isn't the Hunslet 18"/J94 (which most of the other candidates more or less resemble) but instead is clearly C19th, small, and distinctively different, especially so in its cabriolet version.

[Dan Griffin]

Heya, is it the same class as NCB S100?

 

ISC No.1 duly corrected. I did wonder if the Hunslet and HC locos could be made from the same basic loco.

 

Hi

 

It is a fairly small Industrial loco, it looks much smaller than the RSH class listed above.

 

1800 Class 'Thomas' as named by the man himself, Rev W Awdry. (picture from google)

 

S100 from chaswater is a very similar 1800 class HC.  (picture from google)

 

There are similarities to this beast also.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Dan Griffin

[Covkid]

Excellent work "Corbs" I have voted.

Are you likely to do a diesel poll too ?

If so please add Bagnall DL2   http://www.flickriver.com/photos/65480188@N07/8523455097/

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.smugmug.com%2FUKRailways-Preserved%2FFoxfield-Railway-150417%2Fi-pgqb82b%2F5%2Ff7c49235%2FS%2F2017-04-15%2520%252828%2529-S.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpadders.smugmug.com%2FUKRailways-Preserved%2FFoxfield-Railway-150417&docid=CWYsCjbzgumQdM&tbnid=UBsmzFjitVuabM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiQgonoo7PeAhUIBsAKHUrHCuAQMwhkKBcwFw..i&w=400&h=267&bih=612&biw=1280&q=wolstanton%20diesel%20loco&ved=0ahUKEwiQgonoo7PeAhUIBsAKHUrHCuAQMwhkKBcwFw&iact=mrc&uact=8

2 different lengths / cabs

 

Many thanks 

[Corbs]

I've added the HC 1800 0-6-0T to the vote.

If you want to change your vote I believe you can 'delete my vote' and then re-vote ( I just tried it and it worked), but bear in mind that you need to re-vote for your other options too.

 

I've thought about the thread title but I'm going to leave it as-is for now.

 

Thanks for the submission for diesels, I'll add it to my spreadsheet.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Corbs

[Regularity]

True, but one would hope that people understand that voting for all of them would be the same as voting for none of them.

 

Not the same, except in terms of deciding which one.

A vote for none of them says, “I won’t buy anything.”

A vote for all of them either means, “I have deep pockets and will buy every model produced,” or “I don’t mind which one: anything will do for me.”

You might want to add an option for “Any of the above: I just want an 0-6-0 industrial loco,” which would at least cover one of the above interpretations.

[Corbs]

Not the same, except in terms of deciding which one.

A vote for none of them says, “I won’t buy anything.”

A vote for all of them either means, “I have deep pockets and will buy every model produced,” or “I don’t mind which one: anything will do for me.”

You might want to add an option for “Any of the above: I just want an 0-6-0 industrial loco,” which would at least cover one of the above interpretations.

True, but the main aim of this is to get data on which models to submit to the main poll, and not all of them will be submitted. We already know there is a demand for it from previous main polls, so ‘all of them’ doesn’t give me much new information.

You may think that means it should be a single vote per person, but that’s not the data I want, either. I do want overall popularity (so I can go to the main poll team and say ‘look at how many people want models of these locos’), but I also want to know relative popularity to each other.

For example, I would definitely buy 3 of the locos on the list, but I wouldn’t buy the others, so I’m not going to vote for them. If I only had one vote, I could either be saying ‘this is my favourite choice’ or ‘I would only buy this loco and not the others’ which is not as useful to me in this instance. That’s why the main poll allows you to select a variety of GWR 4-6-0s and not just a Manor or a Castle.

 

So you are correct that selecting every option isn’t totally useless data to me, it’s just filling half of my data saucepan when a vote for top 3 or top 5 would give me more to go on.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Corbs

[Regularity]

You need to ask people to select no more than say 3-5 options, then. Make it clear that multiples are permitted, but request that voters limit their choices.

 

With polling, you get the answer to the question the respondee thinks you asked, not to what you think you asked, which is why there is such a big industry involved in market research and opinion polls.

[Corbs]

You are right, I should add an explanation why we are doing this and what data I need. I put this together in a bit of a hurry so it’s worth including especially if people have not been privy to the discussions around it.

EDIT - added.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Corbs

[avonside1563]

Now then Corbs, what you should definitely add to the list is a Peckett X2 class. The sole surviving one of which is currently undergoing an extensive survey prior to overhaul at Foxfield at an anticipated cost of £120,000. The X2 was the uprated version of the X class (a kit for which already exists) and the 52 members of the class worked extensively across the UK.

 

[Corbs]

Could it be made using the same tooling as the X class? I had originally put it in under the same entry.