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  • 3 weeks later...
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Looks like the order has now been placed.

 

Order placed with Stadler.  Rail Operations (UK) Limited, who own Rail Operations Group, will lease them from Beacon Rail.  The first one due in the UK in August 2020.

 

Further details here;

 

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/rail-operations-fuels-its-ambitions-with-tri-mode-class-93s 

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  • 11 months later...

No sign that anyone is going to manufacture one of these, so i might just have to have a go at altering a class 68.  I've not really tried airbrushing yet so that might be a challenge.  I really like the look of them and think the sounds from it will be great, electric, diesel and .... silence (well almost)!  Might have to carry undercoat as I doubt anyone has done suitable transfers

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On 21/11/2019 at 15:26, Dixie Dean said:

No sign that anyone is going to manufacture one of these,...

 

 

Probably a bit early to come to that conclusion.

 

As far as I'm aware, since the media piece announcing that an order had been placed, there haven't been any pictures in any media that I've seen showing the first locomotives under construction.

 

Once there's some actual metal to look at and measure I imagine then that Accurascale/Bachmann/Dapol/Heljan/Hornby (delete as appropriate) might possibly get interested.  But even so, it's a very small order for only 10 locomotives.  No manufacturer has jumped in yet to produce a class 88 and they've been around for over 3 years.  

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On 21/11/2019 at 10:26, Dixie Dean said:

No sign that anyone is going to manufacture one of these, so i might just have to have a go at altering a class 68.  I've not really tried airbrushing yet so that might be a challenge.  I really like the look of them and think the sounds from it will be great, electric, diesel and .... silence (well almost)!  Might have to carry undercoat as I doubt anyone has done suitable transfers

 

Well, that's one way to get someone to announce a RTR 93.

 

Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if Dapol have an agreement that means they are the ones with the rights to make the model (as part of the negotiation to do the 68), and even if they were interested in doing the 88/93 as mentioned by 4630 they will want to wait until there is actually a 93 (or better all 10) built in case there are any last minute changes to the body.

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DRS own the rights to the design of the 68/88 - so logic would presume that Dapol will "do" the 88". (Although that has connections from the DJ/Dapol era, but depending on which post(s) you read, will depend upon whether you think Dapol have the rights to a 88.

 

The 93 is nothing to do with DRS and is a different subject matter.

Beacon Rail/Vossloh Stadler will be the folks to talk to......................

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited by newbryford
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1 hour ago, newbryford said:

DRS own the rights to the design of the 68/88 - so logic would presume that Dapol will "do" the 88". (Although that has connections from the DJ/Dapol era, but depending on which post(s) you read, will depend upon whether you think Dapol have the rights to a 88.

 

The 93 is nothing to do with DRS and is a different subject matter.

Beacon Rail/Vossloh will be the folks to talk to......................

 

Is it that simple?

 

The 68/88/93 are all Stadler products (previously Vossloh)

 

The 93 is part of the 68/88 UKLIGHT platform

 

That would seem to imply that DRS must be involved somewhere, unless their design rights didn't include a loco with a battery option (which is possible, strange things happen, but I would guess DRS rights would be to the UKLIGHT platform and not to any specific implementation).

 

As for Dapol and the 88, this post back in 2013 from then Dapol Dave might provide the answer

 

Though it is possible the 88 may have been included after DRS saw the 68 model.

 

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When I spoke to Dapol at the GETS, I was told by them that they had zero plans to do the Class 88 due to the fact there’s only one livery as well to many detail differences between a 68 and 88.  It would seem that the only common parts they share is the bogies and the cab but if the Class 93 is produced, I would say that there’s more commonality between Class 88 and 93 rather than a 68 and 88.

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Thing to consider is that pretty much any manufacturer (not just in this hobby) will deny things until they are ready to make it public (not out of malice, but rather to keep expectations in line and to attempt to prevent competitors from knowing).

 

With that said, I suspect it is a fair assessment that the best thing to happen to Dapol and their Class 68 model was Accurascale announcing the Mk5 coaches.  Being new and shiny only creates so much market demand.

 

Dapol doing either the 88 or 93 will depend on how flexible the 68 tooling was made, and hence what the additional costs are.  But I suspect it is fair to say that the 88 and 93, being limited prototypes (only 10 each, no livery variations) will be a tough project to commit the tooling costs to for any manufacturer unless either end up in use in such a way that generates above average interest.

 

It may well be that DRS holding design rights, while perhaps good for DRS, will be bad for the model community by preventing other operators from buying the units.

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Some have commented that the 68 and 88 are of differing lengths.  However, I have now found photographic confirmation that this isn't the case.  I am unable to confirm whether this is the case with a 93 though, but from comments made in articles about it, it would appear not.  However, another obvious difference (apart from the top of the doors) is the door handles.

 

class_88_length.jpg

 

class_68_length.jpg

Edited by Dixie Dean
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The Stadler UKLight and UKDual platform share the same basic design, other than that, there are subtle if not significant differences left right and centre for any model. Certainly, the UKDual could potentially share near identical details, yet as different body side grill arrangements for an increased engine housing, batteries and larger fuel tanks are envisaged, this shall impact a model's business case for a livery (ROG) that has yet to prove any modelling demand (not that that would change).  What has not been confirmed - as there are no forthcoming contract for the class 93 - is whether Stadler shall insist on their group standard cab design. Seeing as DRS/NDA have a royalty arrangement on the shape of the cab, there is no reason why any future UKLight or UKDual would pay royalties to look like the class 68/88 when it is the platform which has most of the approval work. Its a little grey of an area, but until the ink is dry on the contracts to order 10 class 93s, we just do not know for certain. 

 

Also, Beacon Rail has long been out of the picture as the financier and these locos are not yet ordered. I have always said the class 93 is nothing more than an ambition of ROG, if an order is ever placed - firstly - we need to see whether the Orion London Liverpool Street 'pallet' service is a success and then - secondly - pay attention to Stadler press announcements. 

 

I think in the short/medium term we have more chances of seeing a UKDual in a bo-bo arrangement (based on the EuroDual) for other FOCs once we know electrification plans for the long term future of the UK rail network. Until that (post Williams Review), no FOC shall be investing in new locomotives and instead re-conditioning existing traction as a short to medium stop-gap. (those who know things, know the previous InnoTrans was meant to feature such an order). 

 

EuroDual-ELP.jpg

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I am intrigued about that order and what has happened to it, there's certainly a few freightliner contracts that would benefit from any heavyweight bi-mode haulers with the discontinuous electrification North/South between Manchester and Southampton as well as East West between Felixstowe and Bristol... and if they could do some serious hauling off the wires from Westbury to Newbury for the Mendips contract. As you point out, there's some big decisions hanging over the UK rail network and it seems unlikely that any FOCs will jump in headfirst with such a significant order until there is slightly more certainty.

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I might still give it a go, but right now I'm still in the middle of creating 4 articulated coaches for my Eurostar, my first cut and shut project, so this one will have to wait until the Spring I would think.  Hopefully all 4 will be off to be sprayed in the GNER navy/red livery over Christmas.

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  • 1 year later...
On 22/11/2019 at 21:07, 4630 said:

 

Probably a bit early to come to that conclusion.

 

As far as I'm aware, since the media piece announcing that an order had been placed, there haven't been any pictures in any media that I've seen showing the first locomotives under construction.

 

 

There's a possibility that there may be movement on this, with the recent investment in ROG/ROUK by STAR Capital

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17 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

There's a possibility that there may be movement on this, with the recent investment in ROG/ROUK by STAR Capital


Yes, there’s been little snippets elsewhere hinting that the project wasn’t completely dead.  Here’s hoping.  

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image.png.40df7fd1cfcafbdb295716284c0d34ee.png

 

 

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

Interesting that the artists impression is with a Euro spec cab not a 68/88 cab.

 

could complicate matters for Dapol

 

It has been said, possibly in this thread somewhere, that DRS own the rights to the design of the 68/88, so maybe ROG has had to do something different.  Regardless, whilst there are many similarities between a 68 and a 88, there are probably as many difference between both of them and the 93 that will mean the only common parts will be the motor block and wheels, i.e. each of the 88 and 93 would require slightly different bodies and underframe equipment. 

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5 hours ago, RateTheFreight said:

There’s going to be 30 of them. Exciting times ahead for us! 

 

https://www.railopsgroup.co.uk/news

I must admit I was surprised to see that 30 have been ordered and according to wnxx.com, the first ten are due for delivery in 2023.  I remember reading on Europhoenix/ROG’s Facebook page that the 93’s were to replace it’s heritage traction over the next five years.

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