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EMGS commissions Peco for RTR EM Gauge bullhead track/turnouts

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I hate to diverge too much into conversion territory but I'm a little at a loss as to where else to ask: I gather from the above I can just easy out the wheels on my Bachmann 4CEP and 2EPB's?

I don't know about the 4CEP but the 2EPB has half axles that fit into the cog. For the power bogie conversion Branchlines do replacement half axles and wheels (not cheap though very good). For the remainder of the wheels I used coach wheels from EMGS stores.

 

Edit, you could ease the half axles out of the cog a bit but the wheels then foul the side frame. You also need to make arrangements for the pick-up to the wheel rims on the coach wheels

 

If you ever do DMUs they do ease out of the cog on the power bogie; and coach wheels again for the remainder (Derby LW, 101, 105 and 108 in my case)

Edited by dhjgreen

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I find this site incredibly useful for wheel diameter data:

http://www.clag.org.uk/wheelbase.html

Thank you Mark.

 

I've posted step by step rewheeling details for a few locos over the years, I'll try to find a link at some point.

If you could find these links, thank you again.

 

Your 08 is probably the most difficult to get right and I wouldn't tackle that one first (I made that mistake). You basically have two options; a drop in replacement wheelset from Ultrascale (complete wheels on axles, with gear and with cranks fitted and quartered) or the Alan Gibson conversion pack where you need to recover the gear from the 00 driven axle, set back to backs and quarter the cranks yourself. As you can guess, the latter requires a little more patience!

I'm learning lots here, and getting more confident knowing there are these resources available (your link above and RMWeb). It sounds simple after the fact, but I now know the difference between 'drop in replacement' and 'conversion pack'.

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914mm is a Peco standard length (1 yard) and has been since Peco started. So what is any different?

 

EMGS once offered 1/2 yard lengths as available (which I took to mean, if someone could be bothered to cut lengths in half!).

 

Peco track can be bought in any shop that stocks Peco, this new track can't, so postage cost will be an issue to some.

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How to convert the Hornby 08 to EM here

https://bawdsey.wordpress.com/2016/04/12/Hornby-08-em-ultrascale-conversion/

 

The news regarding EM points and track is excellent and retailing it via the society absolutely logical. There’s very little point in marketing it through normal model shops as the market and support for it isn’t available. When SMP points/track and Ratio track were available back in the 1980’s, there was very little take up of them through MRM where I worked. It was a traditional shop where pretty much all the common and required components for 4mm finescale modelling were kept in stock, P4 wheels for example. Today’s shop market has contracted massively as we know, and I can’t think of a single shop where you could walk through the door, and buy everything you need to start an EM layout off the shelf. RTR conversions can be simple or very complicated, a high street customer would need to be exceptionally lucky to find someone behind a counter today that could offer the components/advise/assistance to complete an easy conversion let alone a more complex one. In today’s market the EM society is exactly the right place to market this track, and provide the correct support to make sure that it’s the success I hope it proves to be.

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Well this is an uncannily timely and welcome piece of news for me.  I am retiring this week and will be making a start on my retirement project layout in the loft, so the OO vs EM decision can be delayed no longer.  The forthcoming availability of these turnouts and track now makes the decision a no-brainer.  EM it will be.  Time to renew my lapsed EMGS membership…

 

Since I cannot build my layout entirely with B6 turnouts, I will need to build several turnouts myself. Does anyone know if the Peco Individulay sleepers (IL-111) and turnout sleeper strip (IL-114) match the “non-standard” sleeper thickness of the EMGS RTR track?  If not, perhaps the EMGS should consider commissioning Peco to produce some matching thickness sleepers/point timbering?  And perhaps even some 4mm scale chairs?

Also, could someone from the EMGS confirm whether consideration has been given to using a HiNi nickel-silver variant rail for the EM track and turnouts.

Nick

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Well this is an uncannily timely and welcome piece of news for me.  I am retiring this week and will be making a start on my retirement project layout in the loft, so the OO vs EM decision can be delayed no longer.  The forthcoming availability of these turnouts and track now makes the decision a no-brainer.  EM it will be.  Time to renew my lapsed EMGS membership…

 

Since I cannot build my layout entirely with B6 turnouts, I will need to build several turnouts myself. Does anyone know if the Peco Individulay sleepers (IL-111) and turnout sleeper strip (IL-114) match the “non-standard” sleeper thickness of the EMGS RTR track?  If not, perhaps the EMGS should consider commissioning Peco to produce some matching thickness sleepers/point timbering?  And perhaps even some 4mm scale chairs?

 

Also, could someone from the EMGS confirm whether consideration has been given to using a HiNi nickel-silver variant rail for the EM track and turnouts.

Nick

 

Hi Nick,

 

The rail will be the same rail that Peco use in their bullhead track, which i belive to be Nickle Silver.

 

There are already 4mm scale chairs avaible from Exactoscale and C&L so I doubt that the society would look at producing thier own chairs as we stock both makes in the EMGS stores. I would also suspect that it maybe the same case for the sleeper timber.

 

I will of course mention your questions at the next board meeting.

 

Thanks

Simon

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914mm is a Peco standard length (1 yard) and has been since Peco started. So what is any different?

 

EMGS once offered 1/2 yard lengths as available (which I took to mean, if someone could be bothered to cut lengths in half!).

If only they came in 960mm lengths to make exactly 4 60' track panels.

 

I thought I had a bundle of half yard lengths from C&L but it turned out they are metric and 50cm pieces. C&L's standard length is 1m.

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As I said, very welcome and to be applauded as its a big step forward, but its not a range !! Lets hope they sell well and not only will the society recoup their outlay but are able to expand the range of what's available

 

Which is exactly why you don't restrict selling to members only

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Was it optional longer axles for the Dapol J94?

Yes, Ian Rice in his short lived magazine did a whole J94 article including the EM drop in conversion, if you're a J94/Austerity fan it's worth tracking down.

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Which is exactly why you don't restrict selling to members only

 

As has been explained, due to the way the EMGS is set up we are only allowed to sell to members/day members and this won't be changing.

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Which is exactly why you don't restrict selling to members only

I believe that the EMGS Constitution and/or legal status doesn't allow them to sell to non members. So there is little point in debating it further at this time.

 

Edited to add that the EMGS Trade Officer has officially clarified that above!

Edited by Jol Wilkinson
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Which is exactly why you don't restrict selling to members only

 

Read this f'ing post!

 

If you're not a member there is a multitude of methods that have been suggested up thread into how you will be able to obtain this track once it is available.

 

If you are a member and don't like the way things are being done, you could always lobby support and then get yourself along to the December AGM and make your suggestions known. Then get your proposals added to the agenda with a view to taking a vote and having your proposals adopted/accepted.

 

First though, I'd do a google for "Charities Commission" and/or "Companies Limited by Guarantee with Charitable Status". You will find multiple reasons why items commissioned to be sold by the society can only be sold to members. Then have a read through the EMGS Memorandum and Articles of Association where you will probably find more reasons why the society is limited to selling to members only.

 

Can't be bothered with that? Thought so.

 

One criticism often aimed at Societies and Community Groups (I'm talking in general here and not just Model Railway Clubs/Societies) is that of the Committees sitting on society(members) money. In this instance it looks as though the committee of the EMGS has take the bull by the horns, made an executive decision to invest members monies in developing, commissioning and having manufactured, something that EMGS members can really benefit from. I for one, hopes their venture pays off.

 

So rather than moan and complain that the ready to plonk EM track/turnouts will only be available to EMGS members, join the bl**dy society and take advantage of the benefits.

 

P

 

Edited for crap spelling.

Edited by Porcy Mane
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A tad exasperated are we then P?

 

Nah!

 

Never surprised that someone has to directed through the forest to see the log pile.

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Still wanting the same access to track for non-members as members even after the regulations are explained.

 

I think I've heard this idea before somewhere. Is this having your cake and eating it track?

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As I said earlier, some people still don't get it do they.

 

Dave.

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Which is exactly why you don't restrict selling to members only

 

 

The reply by the society clearly stated there was valid reasons why they can only sell to members, if like the Exactoscale parts the cost can be kept down this will mitigate the cost of joining the society. Perhaps the decision to restrict sales to members is not of their making but contractual or for legal reasons

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Just curious here. Could P4 turnouts be made commercially in the same way as these EM ones. In other words are the production tolerances tight enough?

This is not an elitist P4 question because I have no idea what normal tolerances are acceptable for EM turnout construction. If built using gauges then the tolerances on the gauges would set the final acceptable tolerances.

  

Anything is possible. The S4 Society would have to negotiate with Peco. Or indeed the EMGS could (since they cover all 4mm gauges, larger than OO).

I think I the intent of my question was misinterpreted. I'm wondering about the production capabilities of Peco regarding P4 turnouts, not how it could be arranged commercially.

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Crikey - just seen this topic!  Once my future man-shed build is underway, some time in Q2/2019, it will be time to either stay OO or go with this very exciting alternative.  My principal fear is the amount of stock needing conversion.  It's just so daunting, I hesitate to guess, but the number of wheelsets involved would be in excess of 10,000 I'm sure.  possibly well in excess too....   :scratchhead:

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Crikey - just seen this topic!  Once my future man-shed build is underway, some time in Q2/2019, it will be time to either stay OO or go with this very exciting alternative.  My principal fear is the amount of stock needing conversion.  It's just so daunting, I hesitate to guess, but the number of wheelsets involved would be in excess of 10,000 I'm sure.  possibly well in excess too....   :scratchhead:

So just like converting your fleet to an alternative coupler, you make a start with models that will be of most use when the layout first emerges. And incrementally work through in descending order of relevance to the new layout. Few layouts need an enormous fleet on Day 1. If EM is going to make your layout more satisfying, there will always be an incentive to convert a few more here and there.

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Which is exactly why you don't restrict selling to members only

 

also....I'm surprised PECO agreed to only have the items sold via the society who it has to be assumed must have put up a pretty strong sales pitch to them (PECO) before they agreed to sign on the dotted.......

 

I don't know how many members the society has - maybe it runs to 10s of thousands of members.  Many will have already completed layouts and no need to buy the new items apart from maybe the odd piece.  How many folk will even be aware of the availability unless they are a forum member or are aware of the society?   If you sell a product surely you want to reach as many buyers as possible.

 

Its a bit like the tradesman who charges a fee for him to come to your house and do a quote for some work when all the other local tradesman do free quotes.  Who are you going to call first?   

 

Would love to have been a fly on the wall at Peco when the society were making their case............….

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also....I'm surprised PECO agreed to only have the items sold via the society who it has to be assumed must have put up a pretty strong sales pitch to them (PECO) before they agreed to sign on the dotted.......

 

I don't know how many members the society has - maybe it runs to 10s of thousands of members.  Many will have already completed layouts and no need to buy the new items apart from maybe the odd piece.  How many folk will even be aware of the availability unless they are a forum member or are aware of the society?   If you sell a product surely you want to reach as many buyers as possible.

 

Its a bit like the tradesman who charges a fee for him to come to your house and do a quote for some work when all the other local tradesman do free quotes.  Who are you going to call first?   

 

Would love to have been a fly on the wall at Peco when the society were making their case............….

 

ThaneofFife, You know what I'm getting sick of explaining the same thing over and over and over and over!!!!

 

If this gets me a warning then im quite happy as people fail to read what has been put before, its not a difficult task!!!!

 

Pecos involvment in this process has been to do the drawings, the CAD work and then manufactoring the track and points. Thats it, nothing more.

 

The society went to them and asked would they be prepered to make us some track. They thought about it, asked for some drawings/track templates to see what we wanted, Thought about it some more and then came back to us and said yes they would be able to make it for us, contract signed and the process of having CAD work started and hopefully at the EMGS stand at Warley there will be some 3D printed samples to look at.

 

 Yes thats a simplifed version of what happened but I don't want to pitch it too high as some people are struggling with what has been posted before.

 

Peco don't have anything to do with the sales side of the project THATS THE EMGS!!!!!!!!!!

 

The only people that have a say in how the product is sold is HMRC!!!!

 

There are rules in place that we have to obey in the selling and this is why it is members/day members only.

 

If you want to change it then please join the society, become a member of the board and then spend lots of time rewrting the articles of adminastration, submitting them to Compaies house. Then you can also deal with the HMRC paperwork whch will need to be completed to enable us to sell to everyone.

 

Also just for the record lots of members who already have a layout havecontacted me and wanted to order track there and then. They all said that they will buying track and couple of points to make a small shunting puzzle, myself included.

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From the very first post (my bold):

 

the EM Gauge Society, which was formed in 1955 to promote modelling in 4mm scale with a track gauge of 18.2mm, has commissioned Peco

 

 

In other words there's no pitch to be made.

 

EMGS: "Hi, EMGS here, how much will it cost to tool up EM points and track ?"

Peco: "£xxxxxx"

EMGS: "Crack on, cheque is in the post".

 

So legal restrictions aside, EMGS members have paid their subs to enjoy the benefits available to members, and the EMGS has invested those subs in tooling for the benefit of those members. If you want to play, join the club.   

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