JST Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hi, My layout has expanded to the stage where I feel I need a power booster. I currently am using a Hornby Elite via Railmaster and am happy with the set up. However, I now have over 40 sets of points run via DCC Concepts AD8SX decoders, about 40 locos (some of them a bit power hungry) on the track at any one time, a Heljan turntable plus various LEDs powered from the ADS8SX decoders. All this is beginning to sap the power from the 4 amp Elite (especially on start up). I am now about to build the branch line terminus which will be sort of "Minehead" size. My plan is to use the Elite power output to run the branch terminus and then get a new power source booster to run the rest of the layout. I am looking for suggestions as to which one to use that has an output of 5 plus amps. My current leaning is towards the DCC Concepts Cobalt Alpha, any views? Oh, and another question from a bit of a DCC beginner - I realise that the two power sections need isolating from each other by use of insulating fishplates, but what happens when loco wheels go over the join and bridge the gap? Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hornby do their own booster which is a fraction of the price of the Alpha system. A properly setup booster will cope with the power being bridged between the two systems by a train crossing the gap. Provided you follow the instructions on setup, get the rail "phase" correct, etc. (which will be in the manual, essentially use the correct wire to the correct rail, don't cross them over!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hi Nigel. Thanks for this and clearing up my second query. I may have missed something but as far as i have seen, the Hornby booster is about the same price as the DCC Concepts item. The places that say they are selling it for less are all "out of stock". Also I was hoping for a bit more than the 4amps the Hornby booster provides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 If you are considering higher currents than 4A then you really need to be considering your wiring too. What wire are you using for your bus & across your board joins? Also bear in mind that a motor which draws 1A will only do so under full load. Once running at a decent speed, it will draw much less than this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hi Pete, I am using domestics cable (2.5mm) for the bus and there are no baseboard joins so the bus is continuous wire with soldered joins for the droppers on every piece of track. I take what you say about the locos, it is just that some of my old Hornby items are over sixty years old and despite re-magnetising etc. they still want a fair bit of juice! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I'd recommend several smaller boosters rather than one huge powerful one. With a big booster, you need power district cutout devices everywhere, or you're putting potentially max-Amps through any wiring failure or short circuit. If the problem is purely at startup, then a few on-off switches in the bus, to turn on sections of the layout in stages, will be enough. Each stage is turned on, the surge is smaller, and by the time you reach the next switch its over and things can move along. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Yes Nigel, I have already put separate switches in for the ADS8SXs to bring them in gradually on start up. Good point on the power district cut outs. Maybe I can find a Hornby booster on eBay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) If going for the Hornby booster use Figure 4 in the instructions to wire it, rather than the RJ cable or Boost output methods. Fig 4 method takes the master track signal to the booster input and outputs it to the boosted district track, which is reliable. The RJ and Boost circuits share internal circuitry with the Elite programming, which can affect the boosted district signal if you are programming. Less reliable and it needs a special 6-wire RJ12 cable. Ditto for not using the Elite Boost direct output either. Take care with the boost wiring else it is too easy to bust the Elite. Edit: I say take care - as in the figures some have main track wired at one side and some at the other side. Easy to get it wrong. Rob Edited November 6, 2018 by RAFHAAA96 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) Fig 4 method takes the master track signal to the booster input and outputs it to the boosted district track, which is reliable. If you are saying what I think you are, then it also guarantees that a short on the main track will take out both power districts. Ideally all boosters should be fed from the same low power DCC signal so that a short on one booster only affects the power district connected to that booster. Edited November 6, 2018 by Crosland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Use the track output from the elite just to feed your accessory bus, and feed all the track from the boosters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 If you are saying what I think you are, then it also guarantees that a short on the main track will take out both power districts. Ideally all boosters should be fed from the same low power DCC signal so that a short on one booster only affects the power district connected to that booster. Not sure if I've misunderstood you Andrew, but that method (no 4) effectively works as a "sniffer". The track power input connection is only used to extract the DCC signal information from the track or power bus in the adjacent Power district.. Connecting the Bachmann EZ Command to an EZ Command 5 amp Booster can only be connected like this, as the only output from the EZ Command (main unit) is track power. The ECoS ECOSniffer ports can take a track power input from another DCC systems track power output, with the ECoS just reading (sniffing) the DCC commands from that other system. . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 3 Rons I agreed with Andrew as I took his statement to say that if the main district trips say due to a short then the input DCC signal ceases to the booster, hence to the remote district, although the booster would maintain power to that district so trains should keep running at their present state. Even so if a short puts the Elite into error I think all DCC signal outputs would cease regardless of which method is in use. I think this would read across to any controller/booster setup. The important bit is the track output is full current, whereas the RJ and Boost signals are low current, which the booster ‘boosts’. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 Use the track output from the elite just to feed your accessory bus, and feed all the track from the boosters Hi Suzie, I don't have an accessory bus as such, just the track bus - except for a transformer feeding one Lenz LS 150 decoder. This is because ADS8SX decoders need to be fed from track power only and they are the only things I would otherwise have fed from the accessory bus. The LEDs I referred to are fed from the ADS8SXs as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 You have enough accessory decoders to justify an accessory bus, it is not like the ADS8SX are low current devices and you don't want your frog polarities changing when a booster shuts down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) I don't have an accessory bus as such, just the track bus - This is because ADS8SX decoders need to be fed from track power only and they are the only things I would otherwise have fed from the accessory bus.... Hi JST, An accessory bus and track bus are both Power buses. They are both produced from the Power/Track output of the booster in your main system (the Elite in this case) and there is no difference other than what they are used for. Therefore any accessory decoder that requires "track power" can run from an accessory bus. Edited November 7, 2018 by Oakydoke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 Hi JST, An accessory bus and track bus are both Power buses. They are both produced from the Power/Track output of the booster in your main system (the Elite in this case) and there is no difference other than what they are used for. Therefore any accessory decoder that requires "track power" can run from an accessory bus. Thanks for this, I was getting a bit confused probably because although you can power the ADS8SXs from the "accessory" bus, they still power at least part of the track via the frog power. Anyway, I think I now have more of a handle on what I need to do. Having looked at the instructions for wiring a Hornby booster and taken on board Rob's comments, I am at a bit of a loss as to why you would use the RJ cable method. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Whichever method you use - only use one. Never connect track wire and RJ wire at the same time. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 If you are saying what I think you are, then it also guarantees that a short on the main track will take out both power districts. Not sure if I've misunderstood you Andrew.... 3 Rons I agreed with Andrew as I took his statement to say that if the main district trips say due to a short then the input DCC signal ceases to the booster, hence to the remote district.... ..... I think all DCC signal outputs would cease.... Ah! I see what was being said now. Thanks. Ron. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 JST, A certain seller in Sheffield has a few Hornby Boosters left. It appears that Hornby have run out of stock and it's likely there won't be any more of this model of Booster. Hornby web site says..... "We're sorry, the website has sold out of this item and we're not expecting any more stock." . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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