Alternative Throttles for Digitrax?

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

I'm getting to the point of needing another throttle for my layout. I'm using a Digitrax Zephyr with a Utility Throttle.

 

My operators don't particularly like the utility throttle, but at the moment the full digitrax throttle is too expensive. So, what are the alternatives for a throttle that works with Digitrax and what would people recommend?

 

Simon 

[Roger Sunderland]

I'm not surprised they don't like the utility throttle, it's ok if you don't have to change the loco address eg. One loco in steam, although I do like the direction switch and large knob.

The full fat Digitrax throttle is very expensive, as you say, and is not particularly user friendly, several of our operators struggle with it. On the plus side it is still (I think) the only throttle out there capable of controlling two seperate locos.

I too would be very interested in alternatives that could be used with Loconet, the Digitrax system.

[tarifa]

Why not refer to the Digitrax web site "www.digitrax.com" for more information.

[Nigelcliffe]

(Why not refer to Digitrax website - because they won't list the non-Digitrax kit !!)

 

 

Alternatives:

 

DIY - published website designs for Arduino (loconet throttle), and the old published designs for Fred and Fredii 

DIY kit - via RocRail website contributor, a Fredii version in kit form. 

 

(very?) old shop stock, or second hand
 - Uhlenbrock Fred  (works well for operators, is simpler than a UT4 - direction switch, throttle knob and functions 0-8 only.  And assignment of locos is via "dispatching" on the main throttle (Zephyr in this case) and then the Fred can collect the dispatched address. Functions 5-8 are via a "shift" key, so not that quick to get to.  Works well if the limited capability suits what you need, and is the least intimidating DCC throttle I know.  Its my choice to hand to a new operator who has never used DCC to just try running a train. 

-  Uhlenbrock Daisy version 1.  Does work, but lots of features probably won't play ball (programming primarily, but so long since I tried one on a Digitrax command station that I've forgotten exactly what works and doesn't).  Limited functions (F0-F4), probably too archaic to recommend now. 

 

 

New in production

 

-  Uhlenbrock Daisy II.    Really nice to use throttle, and also available as a complete system for about £230, which I think is one of the nicest entry systems to use available.  But, compared to the price of a PowerCab or Zephyr it is seen as expensive. 
Daisy II stores locos in an internal roster with user-set names for each train (or can just type in the DCC address).   Can be customised with icons for every loco, unique function key icons per loco, etc.. (I've produced my own icons for Daisy throttles for people, but that requires more hardware to do the customising).   Used a LocoNet throttle on a Digitrax system it can't access the programming features of the Digitrax command station, but can run trains, operate accessories, etc..  

( NB, there is a bug in the DaisyII system which means Uhlenbrock Fred's don't work properly with it, despite what it says in the Daisy II manual.  I've got nowhere trying to get Uhlenbrock to acknowledge, let alone fix it, though A&H (UK importer) replicated the bug immediately when I talked to them, and also reported the bug to Uhlenbrock). 

 

-  Digitrax' UT4 or DT400/500 series throttles.  Or a second Zephyr running as a "booster+throttle" (via Op-switch settings described in Zephyr manual). 

 

-  Use one or two DC throttles onto Zephyr's "Jump Ports".  All functions and loco allocation is via the Zephyr keypad, and there is a bit of a lag in throttle movement, but its cheap!

 

-  Smartphone using the WiThrottle (Apple) or EngineDriver (Android) software.   EngineDriver also has option of using a Bluetooth small game controller as the speed/direction controller, rather than the touch screen.  Requires a LocoNet-Computer interface (Digitrax PR4 or RR Cirkits LocoBuffer) and a computer running software (Raspberry PI 3, costing about £40 is a very good option for just throttle serving).   Faff for someone to setup the infrastructure for this (computer, software, etc..), but once working, then anyone with a smartphone and the relevant App can drive trains. 

 

- Smartphone Apps via Digitrax LNWI device, which is a direct Smartphone interface (ie. skips the computer out, uses the same smartphone apps as above).  BUT, the LNWI device isn't licensed for use in the UK/Europe, is not going to be (says Digitrax), and would be illegal to sell here (no CE marking on a radio generating device, however that doesn't stop some dealers from selling illegal stuff), so you'll have to find a way to get one here and not care about the legalities.  Its probably less of an electrical noise issue as it just uses the WiFi bands, so unlikely to be causing interference to other radio systems. 

 

There is talk of another more advanced Fred version from the Fremo developers, but when is unknown.   And there are ways of interfacing Digitrax hardware onto other maker's systems, but you'll end up with a new DCC system in doing that, so expensive! 

 

 

- Weird method.  CML LocoShuttle device, its a LocoNet throttle which controls trains.  But can't see a human wanting to drive a train using it !

 

 

 

And probably a few others I've forgotten about. 

[TWG]

I agree with Nigel Cliffe that the Uhlenbrock Daisy 2 is really nice to use.  Uhlenbrock now produce a version of it for Piko, who call it the Smart Control light.  This is in a different case but is otherwise almost identical.  It costs only €99, which to my mind makes it a bargain.  The only missing features are the ability to add a radio module and backlighting for the keys.

 

It is new and at present available as part of a system, but it will no doubt be available separately shortly.

[Nigelcliffe]

There is also a red version of the Daisy II system under the ACME brand available from some Italian dealers for about Euro160 - that's a normal Daisy handset with a red outer front shell, rather than the Piko "round toy" moulding.  And a Blue one under a trainset brand but I can't recall seeing that available separately. 

[TWG]

The blue Daisy is sold by Tillig.  It is shown on the website with catalogue number 66204 but described as nicht verfügbar (not available).

 

Another secondhand possibility is the Fleischmann Profiboss, also made by Uhlenbrock.  It too is  a nice controller to use.

[barrymx5]

Quote Smartphone Apps via Digitrax LNWI device, which is a direct Smartphone interface (ie. skips the computer out, uses the same smartphone apps as above). BUT, the LNWI device isn't licensed for use in the UK/Europe, is not going to be (says Digitrax), and would be illegal to sell here (no CE marking on a radio generating device, however that doesn't stop some dealers from selling illegal stuff), so you'll have to find a way to get one here and not care about the legalities. Its probably less of an electrical noise issue as it just uses the WiFi bands, so unlikely to be causing interference to other radio systems. unquote

 

This is not necessarily true. I have purchased 2 LNWI this year from Digitrains of Lincoln. Both do exactly what is expected of them and without interference. One is on my home layout and the other on a Club layout. The CE marking may have limited validity in the UK anyway after next March. Certainly I can’t see any trading standards officer entering this murky area.

 

At under £80 including postage this has to be the way to go. I have installed WiThrottle on my iPhone 7 and even an old iPhone 3GS. WiThrottle lite is free but I splashed out on the full version (under £10 for both phones). The full version has a useful track power switch as well as the facility to change points. As noted above there is an Android version called EngineDriver.

 

No doubt about it LNWI is the cost effective and best way to go.

[Nigelcliffe]

 

Smartphone Apps via Digitrax LNWI device, which is a direct Smartphone interface (ie. skips the computer out, uses the same smartphone apps as above). BUT, the LNWI device isn't licensed for use in the UK/Europe, is not going to be (says Digitrax), and would be illegal to sell here (no CE marking on a radio generating device, however that doesn't stop some dealers from selling illegal stuff), so you'll have to find a way to get one here and not care about the legalities. Its probably less of an electrical noise issue as it just uses the WiFi bands, so unlikely to be causing interference to other radio systems.

This is not necessarily true. I have purchased 2 LNWI this year from Digitrains of Lincoln. Both do exactly what is expected of them and without interference. One is on my home layout and the other on a Club layout. The CE marking may have limited validity in the UK anyway after next March. Certainly I can’t see any trading standards officer entering this murky area.

 

The legality is very clear - selling a radio frequency device without a CE mark is illegal. I said some dealers sell illegal stuff:  its not murky, the legislation and government guidance is really clear.

As for March, well the "great repeal bill" codifies CE marking into UK legislation.

The LNWI functionality is a sub-set of what the Smartphone Apps can do if linked to a computer solution.  So, it depends on your trade-off of features and setup effort, plus a view on the legalities around radio devices. 

 

- Nigel

[barrymx5]

The legality is very clear - selling a radio frequency device without a CE mark is illegal. I said some dealers sell illegal stuff:  its not murky, the legislation and government guidance is really clear.

As for March, well the "great repeal bill" codifies CE marking into UK legislation.

 

The LNWI functionality is a sub-set of what the Smartphone Apps can do if linked to a computer solution.  So, it depends on your trade-off of features and setup effort, plus a view on the legalities around radio devices. 

 

- Nigel

Don’t let us get too bogged down in minutiae and technicalities. The question was

Quote Hi,

 

I'm getting to the point of needing another throttle for my layout. I'm using a Digitrax Zephyr with a Utility Throttle.

 

My operators don't particularly like the utility throttle, but at the moment the full digitrax throttle is too expensive. So, what are the alternatives for a throttle that works with Digitrax and what would people recommend?

 

Simon unquote.

 

My Club had the same problem. One answer is the Digitrax LNWI which is sold by respected DCC retailers and provides a cost effective way of providing additional throttles. End of story. My observation is that it is fun and simple to use and set up. Simon can make his own decision based upon the information provided.

[Oldddudders]

I'm not surprised they don't like the utility throttle, it's ok if you don't have to change the loco address eg. One loco in steam, although I do like the direction switch and large knob.

The full fat Digitrax throttle is very expensive, as you say, and is not particularly user friendly, several of our operators struggle with it. On the plus side it is still (I think) the only throttle out there capable of controlling two seperate locos.

I too would be very interested in alternatives that could be used with Loconet, the Digitrax system.

The UT4 was designed by Digitrax to meet a spec drawn from existing Digitrax users. It was intended to be more affordable, simple to use for visitors, and avoided the nightmare of unintended re-programming. Far from One Engine In Steam, it excels at large walkaround layouts, which are numerous in the country of its origin, where the visitor can run his train - probably freight - and stop and shunt as required. The DT4xx/5xx may cost a bit, but really, paying the price of just one new 4mm RTR steam loco for a full-fat infra-red capable throttle hardly seems unreasonable. A recent RMweb poll suggested that more than half of respondents owned more than 50 locomotives. Paying for a decent DCC system - whatever the brand - would seem a modest investment by comparison.

[Andymsa]

Hi,

 

The duplex radio version of the ut4 is easier to use when selecting locos compared to the tethered version.

[Oldddudders]

Hi,

The duplex radio version of the ut4 is easier to use when selecting locos compared to the tethered version.

I’ve just bought one - I have had a couple of the IR version for some years - but have yet to try it. The very low ceiling with supporting beams in my railway barn is less than helpful to either IR or radio, and my DT402D struggles at times. My portable HOm layout will be radio equipped from the start, and the UT4DCE will be very useful for guests.

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

Thanks for all the replies, I've concluded that the best and most cost effective way of increasing the number of throttles is conversion to wireless and use my crews fleet of iphones.

 

I know there are two ways of doing this, one is by adding a Raspberry Pi through a digitrax USB interface and the other is the using the Digitrax Wireless Interface.

 

Now, having read about the Digitrax Wireless Interface, it is clear that it can't be purchased in the UK, however, it is possible to use it on an exhibition layout in the UK?

 

Simon

[AndrewC]

Keeping it legal, I’d go for the PR 3/4 or a Locobuffer connected to a Raspberry PI running headless JMRI. That is good for about 4 or 5 smartphone throttles. Another option would be to use a Digikeijs DR5000 as a command station with its built in Z21 WiFi service. That way you can connect the Zeypher as a throttle / booster and still use any other loconet devices.

[barrymx5]

On 14/01/2019 at 18:47, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

Thanks for all the replies, I've concluded that the best and most cost effective way of increasing the number of throttles is conversion to wireless and use my crews fleet of iphones.

 

I know there are two ways of doing this, one is by adding a Raspberry Pi through a digitrax USB interface and the other is the using the Digitrax Wireless Interface.

 

Now, having read about the Digitrax Wireless Interface, it is clear that it can't be purchased in the UK, however, it is possible to use it on an exhibition layout in the UK?

 

Simon

Simon

The Digitrax LNWI can be purchased in the UK. I have bought 2 at different times from Digitrains in Lincoln. You will see this kit in use often at UK exhibitions. 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

On ‎01‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 22:33, barrymx5 said:

Simon

The Digitrax LNWI can be purchased in the UK. I have bought 2 at different times from Digitrains in Lincoln. You will see this kit in use often at UK exhibitions. 

 

 

It is sold by a few retailers, but in doing so, those retailers are breaking the law on supply of radio equipment (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/1206/contents/made).  Use of the equipment by the purchaser is also illegal. 

 

That said, chances of being caught or prosecuted is near enough zero.  There isn't any checking done, and the radio frequencies are already in use for WiFi, so licensed for use.  The illegality is that the device hasn't been tested and certified for use in the UK (and rest of Europe). 

 

 

 

The Raspberry PI method, running JMRI and the WiThrottle protocol is legal (because the PI has the relevant certificates), and the result is a slightly better interface as the function labels on the throttles can be labelled, a roster of named locos presented to operators, etc.. 

 

 

- Nigel