Diesels on the Southern Region

[Joseph_Pestell]

I can't recall seeing any diesels on inter-regional passenger workings to the Southern Region other than Class 47 (and the few Deltic trips to Ramsgate).

 

Would I be right in thinking that 40s, 45s and 46s would be excluded as being incompatible with the 3rd rail in the way that some HSTs are?

['CHARD]

Not as such, no...

 

https://wobblewinterwanderings.smugmug.com/Trains/Class-45/i-BpdwDvj/A

 

https://thesulzerpictorial.weebly.com/uploads/8/2/1/2/8212554/mj0414_filtered.jpg

[TravisM]

HST’s aren’t banned from the Southern Region as there was a regular service to Bournemouth with them. I believe that they had to have their BT10 bogies adapted to deal with the 3rd rail issues but that might have been just the Mk 3 sleepers. Class 45’s and 46’s were regular visitors to the Southern Region, Class 40’s not so but remember that the 1-Co+Co-1 bogie is a Bulleid design and suitable for the Southern Region.

Edited November 7, 2018 by jools1959

[Pandora]

Do not forget the WR Warships which worked out of Waterloo

[NIK]

I can't recall seeing any diesels on inter-regional passenger workings to the Southern Region other than Class 47 (and the few Deltic trips to Ramsgate).

 

Would I be right in thinking that 40s, 45s and 46s would be excluded as being incompatible with the 3rd rail in the way that some HSTs are?

 

Hi,

 

There was a book called "Diesels on the Southern" which includes inter-regional workings to the Southern Region.

 

Here's some sort of list of Green and Pre-BR blue Diesels on the Southern Region:

 

Southern Region based:

 

Class 24

Class 33

Class 08

Class 47

 

Visitors:

 

Class 15

Class 20

Class 27

Class 31

Class 35

Class 40

Class 42/43

Class 45/46

Class 52

 

I think the 40, 45 and 46 were all on passenger services.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Wickham Green]

Hi,

 

There was a book called "Diesels on the Southern" which includes inter-regional workings to the Southern Region.

 

Here's some sort of list of Green and Pre-BR blue Diesels on the Southern Region:

 

Southern Region based:

 

Class 24

Class 33

Class 08

Class 47

 

Visitors:

 

Class 15

Class 20

Class 27

Class 31

Class 35

Class 40

Class 42/43

Class 45/46

Class 52

 

I think the 40, 45 and 46 were all on passenger services.

 

Regards

 

Nick

hmmmm ..... not many 08s on Inter-Regionals ......................... but why's nobody mentioned 50s ?

[Joseph_Pestell]

HST’s aren’t banned from the Southern Region as there was a regular service to Bournemouth with them. I believe that they had to have their BT10 adapted to deal with the 3rd rail issues but that might have been the Mk 3 sleepers. Class 45’s and 46’s were regular visitors to the Southern Region, Class 40’s not so but remember that the 1-Co+Co-1 bogie is a Bulleid design and suitable for the Southern Region.

 

I did say some HSTs. I know about the short swing link bogies.

 

Good point about the Bulleid diesels which were, of course, used on Bournemouth trains before being transferred away to the WCML.

[Oldddudders]

I can't recall seeing any diesels on inter-regional passenger workings to the Southern Region other than Class 47 (and the few Deltic trips to Ramsgate).

 

Would I be right in thinking that 40s, 45s and 46s would be excluded as being incompatible with the 3rd rail in the way that some HSTs are?

Not passenger, but 45s were regular power on coal trains to Southfleet.

[Joseph_Pestell]

hmmmm ..... not many 08s on Inter-Regionals ......................... but why's nobody mentioned 50s ?

 

By the time we had 50s, the regional boundaries had become somewhat blurred by sectorisation. So Exeter St Davids - Waterloo would not count to me as an inter-regional - even if technically it was. I feel the same way about Warships and Westerns although they did (now I think of it) get used on the Plymouth/Exeter - Portsmouth/Brighton services.

[Joseph_Pestell]

The real origin of my question was a bit of musing about a "might have been" layout of Bournemouth West post-electrification. Apart from the interest of the REP/TC combos and 33 haulage to Weymouth, there would still be DEMUs to Swanage and inter-regional services (which in reality got diverted to Poole after closure of BW).

 

So I was wondering if one might justify anything other than a 47 on an inter-regional in the late 60s.

 

Of course, under Rule 1, the Dorchester - Axminster line might have been built and still open, so there could be 42s and 52s from that direction.

[chrisf]

Some Class 24s were loaned to Hither Green to cover until the 33s were ready.  In times of extreme snow there were instances of Class 56s being used to drag EMUs.

 

Chris

[Oldddudders]

Some Class 24s were loaned to Hither Green to cover until the 33s were ready.  In times of extreme snow there were instances of Class 56s being used to drag EMUs.

 

Chris

I think, Chris, that the 24s were needed for their steam-heating capabilities, since the 33s only had ETH, thus one saw them paired on the final loco-hauled services prior to electrification of Phase 2. I think this is why Southern got the first 20 24s, which had the boilers from new.

[Zomboid]

Maybe the wrong era, but I have a distinct recollection of seeing a 60 on some tank cars on the Bournemouth line, sometime in the early/mid 90s.

[darren01]

Do not forget the WR Warships which worked out of Waterloo

And class 50's worked on the SR.

[eastwestdivide]

Not passenger, but 45s were regular power on coal trains to Southfleet.

and/or Northfleet.

[Dunsignalling]

I was doing some work in the front bedroom shortly after moving in (Autumn 1983, and before my railway days) and heard an up train (not a 33) on approach control so going into Honiton loop.

 

When I looked out, it had a Peak at the head, though I'm too far away to read numbers without binoculars. Back then there was a booked cross about 10.00 so I'd guess it was at that time.

 

I'm pretty sure it was a Waterloo working rather than a WR diversion, but have no way of knowing if it went all the way to London.

 

There were a few times 37s turned up, both then and in the hiatus before the arrival of the class 159s, when dwindling numbers of 47/7s produced all sorts of unlikely (both "disparate" and "desperate")  borrowed freight 47s from as far away as Tinsley and Thornaby.

 

It wasn't unknown for up trains to leave Exeter late at that time, the 47 having finished off what remained of its brake blocks on the down working.

 

John

Edited November 6, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[ba14eagle]

Class 56's, 58's & 60's worked stone traffic from Westbury & the Mendip quarries.

58's & 60's worked the Furzebrook to Avonmouth LPG tanks

56's & 58's worked coal trains from the Midland to North Kent and stone trains from the Midlands to terminals in Kent, such as Bat & Ball.

[ba14eagle]

OOPs!

Nearly forgot the Westerns & Warships, which also worked stone traffic from the Westbury area - especially to the South Western division, during construction of the M3 & M25 motorways.

Hymeks also used to work passenger trains from the Western, through the New Forest, to Bournemouth & Weymouth

[slilley]

The real origin of my question was a bit of musing about a "might have been" layout of Bournemouth West post-electrification. Apart from the interest of the REP/TC combos and 33 haulage to Weymouth, there would still be DEMUs to Swanage and inter-regional services (which in reality got diverted to Poole after closure of BW).

 

So I was wondering if one might justify anything other than a 47 on an inter-regional in the late 60s.

 

Of course, under Rule 1, the Dorchester - Axminster line might have been built and still open, so there could be 42s and 52s from that direction.

 

Hymeks were periodic visitors to the Southern.

[anroar53]

45s were regular power on the Summer Nottingham to Ramsgate via Chatham throughout, also on the Car Sleeper workings down to Newhaven.

Nice picture somewhere of a 40 on the Folkestone Harbour branch with a Troop Special.

[SouthernBlue80s]

During rail blue times the main classes were 33,47,50,56

But a few rare ones here

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/oldbuzzard/6152608544/in/photolist-pHamoA-gzQkrM-pANMTB-dMGaVf-iFnJtb-anFJaE-eDM5iv-X7XXsD-eDM5nk-e2ZhYQ-7Bnv3P-JJeM1L-ANvAFP-XYpsBR-99rn2C-WrmRCX-9JWLLp-gzPikT-9scu7n-9qUVbq-29tWeRo-aikVJb-7iZ2h3-aXbycx-aikyNJ-23FZoEB-eDTbw9-26dzgzB-W6wrgx-2cdFBkZ-26N5jZh-dkAJqK-ENmaxs-9qF4Zc-aikFow-9pN2eq-Yp87Po-VTPeDn-aihHZe-DaDtws-aii7ie-TuMxnM-aii3G6-26dzkqT-YqJxP1-YrCY3B-XCETm8-aikAw5-aihUYH-YBeyFQ

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/38339202@N00/8322626152/in/photolist-fmCgMy-hSmcrJ-haYhNa-dWyYdG-dVx6gW-dFrDom-aMmHLT-hHXR4d-6GC772-777ry6-dnzPFf-24xWszM-r5wArg-GUCaS7-dryaQN-dFrCNm-dzd3yD-cUiADf-dd6orz-SVrMmA-YAKGe5-aDPiBt-64h3dS-ibtL8y-23uy3en-pNDs8R-75U8mS-dryaYj-75Qe5v-oujpLE-w9Tq7a-75Qb8g-oy8maF-6T3t8p-WGeeDq-rpV7mK-26fkiWa-7P7BoU-qN56D8-7P3G2a-9XFFX5-7P3zkn-aeeN13-HWkGJn-8bKGpc-8bt4co-aeeQ4S-aEXUiy-8V51eG-r6ACya

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/d33206hg/6335150773/in/photolist-aDPiBt-64h3dS-ibtL8y-23uy3en-pNDs8R-75U8mS-dryaYj-75Qe5v-oujpLE-w9Tq7a-75Qb8g-oy8maF-6T3t8p-WGeeDq-rpV7mK-26fkiWa-7P7BoU-qN56D8-7P3G2a-9XFFX5-7P3zkn-aeeN13-HWkGJn-8bKGpc-8bt4co-aeeQ4S-aEXUiy-8V51eG-r6ACya-HXkrZB-BBVw6i-Nnorci-rptR8c-DDxNEi-2byXznE-24SiVVJ-te1Goz-x4tNwJ-sZBETq-sZMKEt-w9w7W1-wNT9RQ-sZML8c-wP2gbA-tWoveQ-w9H8rr-tWLgjv-sZBEYA-tWCPtR-tmcKNG

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/44587637695/in/photolist-J4PYvC-gPmv2E-JEZh4C-gPomFQ-d9TvHA-Jk5aJB-9hUQLo-9ayMoP-a4fBJd-r8nSM4-XYz5PG-CB9Ajt-sD2WMd-2aW4ih4-FB4d1Z-stmMay-te1Goz-vyCeGq-w6azro-vhACdW-Gu3SBL-wP5DAk-tD8nQc-w9BGg7-w9w7W1-w9w1WA-w9zz94-wa8RSS-rpBNQb-tDmYcT-qwzryp-apW7jZ-qsvWf1-3JuGG4-qrTKSt-d9Tu7g-V2DTBB-roA9pS-raXNTp-sG1hcL-Z68FNN-P9VVk7-sEuw87-q1LWdS-26YbfCD-M9rC3o-rWYHLg-BMBQEr-MwBQjb-LUA71q

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8708923@N03/24457197277/in/photolist-DgcwF8-25bcCYn-S4t6wK-RZR1HY-ddYdG4-Etx7Az-jnxsS8-22SVFRC-aRZe5g-GtuGk1-bZUaVs-snGLFG-9TKAes-7ShYda-bxHE9D-5bL5PK-9TGNJR-aV33Mx-6obKdk-aaBnHS-92FRnP-XU5jXx-a1WAdy-TG1JGg-fupN4z-aV34pr-aaynkt-6nqU8U-eX198e-BLDjZg-a9ox4M-Wv3Lsv-7Sm4rY-FbbC4V-R49y2d-AWxFqu-XNXadh-EMFu3w-HQLU5X-BrPhYL-K6JTSi-6mK3su-bFEjq8-GaJkrz-7GNDoZ-fuqgxP-BRCnDm-ae7VHV-qhVQZo-s6pHXc

 

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=40001%20eastleigh

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Hymeks were periodic visitors to the Southern.

 

Hymeks were quite often used on the Cardiff - Portsmouth services. I am sure they made occasional forays to Brighton (based on at least one photo I recall in a book a few years ago).

 

56s were common - used on the Ardingly branch for example. There was a batch allocated to Stewarts Lane, along with a number of 60s. 37s were quite common - particularly around Eastleigh, but weren't allocated to the region until the early 90s - 37198, 37274 and 37377 immediately spring to mind, but there were about 6. 45s also ventured to Eastleigh on freight - I read somewhere they were often used on the Severn Tunnel Jc services.

 

20s, of course, were used on the week killing trains, so the Hunslet liveried examples were seen all over the region (I distinctly remember a pair of them passing my school whilst treating the Lavant Branch in about 1990). They worked out of Horsham.

 

58s appeared in the mid 1990s and again were common around Eastleigh

[Nearholmer]

The question is about passenger, rather than freight, operations, which rather restricts things, but I've got a photo taken by a guy who I used to work with showing a Hymek on a passenger train somewhere Basingstoke-Eastleigh in either 1966 or 1967. I think it might have been working the same turn that was discussed elsewhere on RMWeb as being a late WR steam turn running through onto the SR.

 

Also, the list of BR(S) allocated diesel classes given in post 5 is incomplete. 

 

A useful reference on-line is http://www.semgonline.com/photoind.html#dedhl but even that doesn't list all the visitors.

 

Finally, the sort of useless hint that annoys everybody: I am sure I can remember Peaks working to Bournemouth in the early 1970s, possibly on a Motorail service, but it is nothing but a faint memory. Stirling to/from Brockenhurst?? Having searched, all the photos I can find show this train headed by a 33!

 

Stop Press: still can't find Peaks to Bournemouth on-line, but how about Peaks to Newhaven and Eastbourne? https://www.derbysulzers.com/peakseverywhere.html

Edited November 6, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

And, since the thread has wandered on to freight, some random 1970s memories:

 

Westerns and Peaks were staple power on Acton to Norwood freights, and if the train was a long one they would drag a brake tender with them. There were also Brent to Norwood trains that were worked by (different) Peaks.

 

Hymeks worked a regular Reading to Redhill freight.

 

Westerns worked motorway construction traffic to Earlswood (I think it was Earlswood).

 

Class 37 were used on oil trains on the SW main line, from I think Ripple Lane to Micheldever.

[SRman]

Some Class 24s were loaned to Hither Green to cover until the 33s were ready.  In times of extreme snow there were instances of Class 56s being used to drag EMUs.

 

Chris

 

 

I think, Chris, that the 24s were needed for their steam-heating capabilities, since the 33s only had ETH, thus one saw them paired on the final loco-hauled services prior to electrification of Phase 2. I think this is why Southern got the first 20 24s, which had the boilers from new.

 

Both correct: the 24s were initially allocated to cover for late-delivered class 33s, then borrowed again (continuing on from the initial loans in many cases) to provide steam heat because there weren't sufficient electrically heated coaches in service.

 

On the initial loans, a few actually lost their steam heating boilers and tanks because they were found to be too heavy for the Southern Civil Engineer to approve of their use.

 

In the later loan period, the 24s were frequently to be found between the class 33 and the train, double-headed but really only there for the heating.

 

Quite a few of the 24s were on the Southern for around 3 years, so it wasn't exactly a short-term loan. Others came and went, with some only spending a month or so on the SR - D5016 was an example of the latter, which is why I renumbered my SLW example to D5017, which was a long-term resident on the SR.