Diesels on the Southern Region

[Mike Storey]

Little (although some) has been mentioned of the Class 56's, which were regularly used on the Snowden, Betteshanger and Tilmanstone colliery trips during the mid to late 80's (when the last pit shut). They were welcomed as their RA was superior to the Classes 33 and 47, and the track was getting a bit ropey in parts in the East Kent complex. But we soon learned to groan if one was spotted on  a working, as there was a 50% chance it would fail somewhere.......

 

Indeed, one was named Hither Green, IIRC. Poor bu88er.

 

 

Edit - typo on class no.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Mike Storey

[Baby Deltic]

How about the Pioneer Diesels on the Southern?

The LMS Twins and Bulleid triplets, and any others such as the unsuccessful  North British 10800 "Wonder Engine".

10000/1 certainly spent time on the Southern working the Waterloo - Bournemouth expresses before being transferred back to the LMR at Camden.

[NIK]

Hi,

 

The OP asked about diesels on inter-regional passenger workings to the Southern Region other than Class 47 (and the few Deltic trips to Ramsgate).

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[lapford34102]

Hi,

Correct and I think that has been covered quite well but like many enquiries on here throws up all sorts of odd side-shoots that the curious might find interesting.

Stu

[SED Freightman]

Little (although some) has been mentioned of the Class 58's, which were regularly used on the Snowden, Betteshanger and Tilmanstone colliery trips during the mid to late 80's (when the last pit shut). They were welcomed as their RA was superior to the Classes 33 and 47, and the track was getting a bit ropey in parts in the East Kent complex. But we soon learned to groan if one was spotted on  a working, as there was a 50% chance it would fail somewhere.......

 

Indeed, one was named Hither Green, IIRC. Poor bu88er.

 

 

58's never made it to the Kent pits, I guess you are thinking of the 56's which worked on the Toton - Ridham - Betteshanger - Toton circuit along with some of the local air braked coal flows.  Other than the Toton - Northfleet - Toton circuit, the 58's did not venture towards East Kent until 19/03/1994 when 58039 ventured onto the Isle of Sheppy for a gauging test at Queenborough.

[Mike Storey]

58's never made it to the Kent pits, I guess you are thinking of the 56's which worked on the Toton - Ridham - Betteshanger - Toton circuit along with some of the local air braked coal flows.  Other than the Toton - Northfleet - Toton circuit, the 58's did not venture towards East Kent until 19/03/1994 when 58039 ventured onto the Isle of Sheppy for a gauging test at Queenborough.

 

Quite correct - my typo!! Corrected.

 

There was a theory that it was the Romanian ones that failed most,

[SED Freightman]

 

 

There was a theory that it was the Romanian ones that failed most,

 

 

 

It was the low numbered 56's that appeared regularly on Kent coal traffic, 56/004/06/08/15 spring to mind, so as these were all Romanian built it may account for your recollection of their poor reliability.

[Baby Deltic]

There was a theory that it was the Romanian ones that failed most,

 

 

 

It was the low numbered 56's that appeared regularly on Kent coal traffic, 56/004/06/08/15 spring to mind, so as these were all Romanian built it may account for your recollection of their poor reliability.

Apparently they kept finding impailed crew members in the cabs of the Romanian 56's.

[guzzler17]

There was a theory that it was the Romanian ones that failed most,

 

I once saw 13 parked up at Tonbridge West Yard.  It had been working the Hither Green to Brookgate Sidings service but obviously didn't too far.  The service went forward with 47317 running 1,685 mins late.

[45156]

There was also a railtour featuring a Class 40 brought down from Haymarket, and which ran from Victoria to Portsmouth harbour, then back on the Portsmouth direct, and which ran late throughout - at one stage on the return it was on the fast line and was being overhauled by the 4VEPs on the stoppers. 

 

I also recall that departure from Portsmouth was brought forward in order to try to make up time (some hope, the loco was knackered) and that some who decided to visit the pub during the break at harbour were left behind.

 

Other than that, I can't recall the date (or year), and have not had time to search Six Bells Junction for any assistance with that.

[guzzler17]

There was also a railtour featuring a Class 40 brought down from Haymarket, and which ran from Victoria to Portsmouth harbour, then back on the Portsmouth direct, and which ran late throughout - at one stage on the return it was on the fast line and was being overhauled by the 4VEPs on the stoppers. 

 

I also recall that departure from Portsmouth was brought forward in order to try to make up time (some hope, the loco was knackered) and that some who decided to visit the pub during the break at harbour were left behind.

 

Other than that, I can't recall the date (or year), and have not had time to search Six Bells Junction for any assistance with that.

40173, 11th February 1978.  Still have my ticket and associated bumph.  I might even have a tape recording that I got from one of my mates.

 

IIRC the return from Brighton to Victoria was delayed waiting for the 40 to light come from Eastbourne but it had got stuck behind a normal service.

[Nearholmer]

Interesting observation about a Class 40 vs VEP race, because it is often overlooked that the BR(S) slam door stock had pretty good installed power in comparison with its dmmu and diesel loco hauled contemporaries, typically 225-250hp/car as compared with <200hp/car. 12 VEP = 3000hp very dependably; Class 40 = 2000hp, on a good day, and it had its own 130 ton weight to shift, on top of whatever it was pulling. The VEP was geared for semi-fast operation too, so doubtless could leave a 40 trailing from a standing start.

[Zomboid]

Or in simple terms, electric is faster than diesel. Especially when that diesel is a class 40.

[guzzler17]

Especially when that diesel is a class 40.

and with load 10!

[Nearholmer]

The loco-weight was probably the equivalent of 2 or 3 coaches, so it runs out to an effective power perhaps as low as 150hp/car.

[45156]

Many thanks Guzzler - I was sure that this tour left earlier than booked, as I know that some got stuck in the pub - however, it may have been that they just missed it - memory (and a couple of pints of Gales HSB at Pompey) may well have been defective

[Downendian]

Or in simple terms, electric is faster than diesel. Especially when that diesel is a class 40.

But doesn't sound anywhere near so good.

Echo the comments on Pompey-Bristol/Cardiff firmly in the hands of Hymeks till 1973, then WR DMUs including class 123, class 205s to Bristol only then class 31/4 then class 33. I've seen several class 37s pressed into service on this route in the 1970s.

Neil

[Zomboid]

I'd sooner listen to an 87 than a 117...

 

Though the best diesels do sound better than an EMU, that is true.

[SED Freightman]

I once saw 13 parked up at Tonbridge West Yard.  It had been working the Hither Green to Brookgate Sidings service but obviously didn't too far.  The service went forward with 47317 running 1,685 mins late.

 

I can beat that for a delay, on Tuesday 11/04/1989, 56017 working the 0640 Hither Green Yd to Brookgate Sdg failed at Tonbridge and the train was recessed in the West Yd until Thursday. The 35 loaded MGR's were finally delivered to Reed Paper 2,900 minutes late.  In general, the 56's were far less reliable than the pairs of 33's and 73's previously used on the Kent coal traffic.

[Hal Nail]

Finally, the sort of useless hint that annoys everybody: I am sure I can remember Peaks working to Bournemouth in the early 1970s, possibly on a Motorail service, but it is nothing but a faint memory. Stirling to/from Brockenhurst?? Having searched, all the photos I can find show this train headed by a 33!

 

Stop Press: still can't find Peaks to Bournemouth on-line

I used to travel from Southampton to Birmingham in the late 70-early 80s as a kid, which would have come from Bournemouth. We did definitely have a Peak once but I can’t now remember if it was already on at Southampton or was waiting for the loco change at Reading. Have a feeling the latter in fact.

 

More relevant to the location and period asked, Diesels on the Southern has a photo of Royal Signals in 1966 on a Bournemouth to Leeds at Byfleet and a 46 at Staines in 1967 on a Poole to Bradford.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Hal Nail

[DY444]

A Hymek in the Redhill area in this:

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by DY444

[Grizz]

On 06/11/2018 at 15:50, Joseph_Pestell said:

I can't recall seeing any diesels on inter-regional passenger workings to the Southern Region other than Class 47 (and the few Deltic trips to Ramsgate).

 

Would I be right in thinking that 40s, 45s and 46s would be excluded as being incompatible with the 3rd rail in the way that some HSTs are?

 

I know that you asked this question back in 2018 but.....With regards to East Sussex, this is the Deep South, Central Division, this is about as exotic as it gets..... 
 

Copies of these photos were kindly given to me. They were taken by an old Sussex Railwayman. gentleman and good friend, now sadly passed away, Colin Packam. 
 

D41, In BR Rail Blue livery, dumped at Pinwell Lane, Lewes, failed on an inter regional service from Newhaven to the Midland region. Later the Midland sent a BR Class 25 to recover this loco and then they sent another BR Class 45 to haul the the train back to the midland. 
 

 

The rescue loco, unidentified in BR Green, passes Lewes on the UP......semaphore frenzy 

 

[Nearholmer]

Fascinating!

 

And, it made me look at the previous post.

 

In the early ‘70s, and I think the late ‘60s but I’m less certain of that, Hymeks  were regulars at Redhill on a morning goods from Reading, returning about lunchtime. I’ve got some truly terrible photos I took of I think D7028 there in 1972.

[NIK]

51 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Fascinating!

 

And, it made me look at the previous post.

 

In the early ‘70s, and I think the late ‘60s but I’m less certain of that, Hymeks  were regulars at Redhill on a morning goods from Reading, returning about lunchtime. I’ve got some truly terrible photos I took of I think D7028 there in 1972.

Hi,

 

On the same line: I think Hymeks sometimes replaced 33s on passenger trains. Later Class 31s on Parcels trains. I think Class 52s were used on stone trains (for M23 construction?).

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited July 25, 2020 by NIK

[john new]

Grew up by the SW mainline at Shawford until we moved in the summer of 1972.  We did sometimes see Peaks, although no idea now of which specific variety or on which of the inter-regional services,  and Hymeks on the trains that had come down off the Western Region. Hymeks regulars on the Bristol (and beyond?) Pompey’s via Southampton as others have said.

 

One afternoon during a period of industrial action whilst waiting on Eastleigh station going home from college (so between 68 & 72)* a Hymek brought a massive pax load southbound which was the regular late afternoon/early evening southbound train and its length suggested also plus the stock of an earlier service doubled up! IIRC that HYMEK turn was a train ex-Birmingham and ran twice or possibly three times a day.

 

*One FT course then followed by a PT day release course so can’t be more accurate for dates.

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by john new
Typos