Results - The Wishlist Poll 2018

[Mallard60022]

Hello Ian

 

Not on our agenda, I'm sorry to say. It has been, but no more (as have 0, 009, etc etc). We are focussing on 'core content'.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

Did I read that Peco are tooling up for a range of EM track?

Phil

[Oldddudders]

Did I read that Peco are tooling up for a range of EM track?

Phil

Yes and no. They are contracted to the EMGS to supply exclusively to them. The product will not be appearing in shops.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Many thanks Chris.

 

I was aware I was 'tempting providence' but this is the first year we haven't had some non-sensible posts. And The Team is much appreciating the difference!

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

Sorry, I was too busy modelling unavailable things that will be announced in the next round of new products to add any. LMS Period 3 Pull-push BT is a dead cert for the next Hornby round.

(Ducking and running)

 

Eric

[MarkSG]

Age vs era has been discussed to death but it always rears its ugly head. Ultimately there never seems to be much correlation... There are all sorts of reasons people choose subjects to model, some older modellers enjoy modelling the railways of today, some younger modellers enjoy modelling the railways of 60+ years ago =)

 

When you look at the various polls on the subject, there does seem to be a statistically significant correlation between age and era, but not overwhelmingly so.

 

More generally, there is a significant minority of modellers who deliberately choose to model the railways of their childhood and early adult memories, and, obviously, for those their age will directly relate to their chosen era. But those who aren't basing their models on their own memories - which is the majority - make their choices based on other factors, and those choices are more evenly distributed across the eras.

 

If you look at this poll on RMweb earlier this year, that tends to bear out this principle:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129998-unscientific-not-guaranteed-to-be-representative-age-versus-modelled-era-poll/

 

In that poll, around 31% of respondents selected "I model what I remember when I was younger", while 48% selected "I model a specific period, irrespective of any first-hand connection". So there is a correlation between era and age, but not a huge one.

[sorabain]

The interesting thing is how 'oddballs' have crept near to the top of the field presumably reflecting that either most more useful subjects have been covered (which seems unlikely) or that there is a solid group of folk to whom an oddball (such as the Leader) appeals simply because it is an oddball.  I wonder what influence this sort of voting will have on manufacturers and if it will divert their attention from more' bread & butter' high scorers such as the long overdue Class 120 dmus?  For example some of us might have a 'fluffy liking for a gas turbine 18000 but given a choice between that and a Class 120 set I know where many would put their money as the dmu would be far more useful and typical.

 

 

The other thing with oddballs is that people are likely to only ever buy one, whereas with "bread and butter" standard items you may buy multiple. Generally i'd have at least 2 standard items, often more for locomotive classes (for me that's D&E). Any manufacturers should perhaps weight the votes with some measure of ubiquity. I've got 10+ 37s, and would love class 81s to come out but would likely only buy a couple (i have 3x85s). When it comes do DMU/EMU i tend to have two (one for up services, the other for down).

 

Class 325s are very likely to sell multiple as they tend to run that way.

Edited November 13, 2018 by sorabain

[BMacdermott]

I found the poll results interesting and I just wondered what the age demographic is when voting? I’m fairly certain that people over a certain age would be looking for more pre grouping, grouping and BR in the steam era where as the younger generation for the modern scene of sectorisation and privatisation.

 

I’m in my late 50’s and don’t remember BR steam except those that have been preserved though I do remember BR blue. We have to remember that there are people who voted who don’t remember that or even sectorisation. I also wondered if manufacturers read these polls and take notice of them?

Hello jools

 

We did collect age/era data in 2012 - but we found it makes the whole thing much more complicated. We keep to our 'Purpose' now.

 

We know for a fact that many of the makers do read the Results and use them as part of their overall planning. We have often said that it would be unwise of any maker to place any specific reliance on our results to the exclusion of other market research info - there are many factors to take into account. For example, Hornby - we believe - take the view that although Bachmann already make a number of Mk1s, they need them in their portfolio also.

 

Do they take notice? They wouldn't tell us even if we had the impertinence to ask. However, we can say from our 2018 statistics that 33 of the 39 (listed) items announced came from more than halfway up the total. And when you think we have a potential list of 30,000+ items, anything above the halfway way mark in our Poll is really at the pinnacle of the pinnacle.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

Edited at 16.55 13.11.18 to correct '2018 statistics' not '2016' as written.

Edited November 13, 2018 by BMacdermott

['CHARD]

 

Do they take notice? They wouldn't tell us even if we had the impertinence to ask. 

 

They observe, be in no doubt 

[Garethp8873]

Happy to see that Dapol have already announced GWR Express Parcels Railcar No.17 which scored 126 votes...

[Forester]

The other thing with oddballs is that people are likely to only ever buy one, whereas with "bread and butter" standard items you may buy multipl

 

 

Not only that, but after amusing themselves with the oddball they are more likely to sell it on quickly if it doesn't fit with their layouts, leading to an early supply of secondhand models and more resistance to purchase new.

[Mallard60022]

I found the poll results interesting and I just wondered what the age demographic is when voting? I’m fairly certain that people over a certain age would be looking for more pre grouping, grouping and BR in the steam era where as the younger generation for the modern scene of sectorisation and privatisation.

 

I’m in my late 50’s and don’t remember BR steam except those that have been preserved though I do remember BR blue. We have to remember that there are people who voted who don’t remember that or even sectorisation. I also wondered if manufacturers read these polls and take notice of them?

The answer to that is a definite yes. However, they select very carefully (if at all) and will only proceed after taking advice from selected individuals). They run businesses after all and however philanthropic they may want to be their business plan out weighs most of the philanthropy!

There was a time when a manufacturer of kits, that I was involved with over a number of years, looked at informal polls and so called wish lists and then spoke to trusted 'clients' and customers at shows. If it was then considered to be probably worthwhile financially to produce a set of etchings, following a huge amount of research and time involved in CAD design, away it went and a product came to the market. However, as the RTR market evolved into a maker of decent model railway stock (most of the time) the market for kits was (is?) falling and also existing products were (are) often lost to excellent RTR items. Such a difficult business to keep balanced and still is.

I suspect that there are at least two locomotives in the top 10 that will appear on the this is coming list before 2020, and one of those will be a loco I really desire.

Have no doubt that Mr. Mac. D. and Co's poll will be a well browsed document by the 'big boys and girls'.

ATB

Phil and Anne Thropic

Edited November 13, 2018 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

Yes and no. They are contracted to the EMGS to supply exclusively to them. The product will not be appearing in shops.

 

Must have read it in the EMGS Journal then and forgot about it almost immediately  

P

[BMacdermott]

Hello Phil

 

This is the relevant RMweb thread.

 

Brian

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/139084-emgs-commissions-peco-for-rtr-em-gauge-bullhead-trackturnouts/

[Mallard60022]

Hello Phil

 

This is the relevant RMweb thread.

 

Brian

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/139084-emgs-commissions-peco-for-rtr-em-gauge-bullhead-trackturnouts/

.....and I see that almost ended up with handbags at dawn....oh dear, some people eh?

Phil

[88C]

First of all, thanks to the team for your efforts.

 

Looking at the results I was surprised to see that the South Wales engines polled as well as they did, I certainly didn't expect a Barry B1 to get 72 votes and more than locos from some other railways. However, no chance of RTR so I'll stick with my Redcraft kits.

 

Brian

[Bernard Lamb]

Yes and no. They are contracted to the EMGS to supply exclusively to them. The product will not be appearing in shops.

 

Until Hattons start to flog failed projects in their pre-owned range.

Bernard

[The Johnster]

I would be amazed if the manufacturers were not aware of these sorts of polls; it's basically free market research for them.  However, their viewpoint on some matters is likely to be very different to ours; they are there to make money for their shareholders not to satisfy our needs, not primarily anyway.  They must consider the costs of producing a model and weight it against what we claim is going to be it's popularity, and they know that most of us base that claim on our own personal preferences and have little understanding of what it costs to design, develop, produce, assemble, package, ship, and distribute a model, or experience of the actual market conditions in which the profit must be made.

 

So, IMHO, we should regard such polls as influencing manufacturers, but not directing their thoughts or intentions.  They must keep their cards close before announcing a model, by which time they will have already spent a good bit of time and money on the project and had no return.  Get this wrong and someone else'll gazump and undercut you, so it is not unreasonable that they do not tell us everything we want to know as soon as we want to know it.  They know better than us what will sell profitably.

[Steamport Southport]

.....and I see that almost ended up with handbags at dawn....oh dear, some people eh?

Phil

 

Oh dear. Echoes of the Bullhead track thread....

 

 

 

Jason

[BMacdermott]

I would be amazed if the manufacturers were not aware of these sorts of polls; it's basically free market research for them.  However, their viewpoint on some matters is likely to be very different to ours; they are there to make money for their shareholders not to satisfy our needs, not primarily anyway.  They must consider the costs of producing a model and weight it against what we claim is going to be it's popularity, and they know that most of us base that claim on our own personal preferences and have little understanding of what it costs to design, develop, produce, assemble, package, ship, and distribute a model, or experience of the actual market conditions in which the profit must be made.

 

So, IMHO, we should regard such polls as influencing manufacturers, but not directing their thoughts or intentions.  They must keep their cards close before announcing a model, by which time they will have already spent a good bit of time and money on the project and had no return.  Get this wrong and someone else'll gazump and undercut you, so it is not unreasonable that they do not tell us everything we want to know as soon as we want to know it.  They know better than us what will sell profitably.

 

Hello Johnster

 

Pretty much our thoughts...and that's why we say what I have clipped below from the Q&A that we provide with each Poll.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

Does The Poll Team expect ‘the top items’ to be made?

We would ask voters to appreciate that manufacturers lay plans anything up to three years or more in advance and have to continually balance requests against their current models and proposed portfolios – as well as those of their competitors. To us, it’s a hobby; to them, it’s a commercial decision.

['CHARD]

I would be amazed if the manufacturers were not aware of these sorts of polls; it's basically free market research for them.  However, their viewpoint on some matters is likely to be very different to ours; they are there to make money for their shareholders not to satisfy our needs, not primarily anyway.  They must consider the costs of producing a model and weight it against what we claim is going to be it's popularity, and they know that most of us base that claim on our own personal preferences and have little understanding of what it costs to design, develop, produce, assemble, package, ship, and distribute a model, or experience of the actual market conditions in which the profit must be made.

 

So, IMHO, we should regard such polls as influencing manufacturers, but not directing their thoughts or intentions.  They must keep their cards close before announcing a model, by which time they will have already spent a good bit of time and money on the project and had no return.  Get this wrong and someone else'll gazump and undercut you, so it is not unreasonable that they do not tell us everything we want to know as soon as we want to know it.  They know better than us what will sell profitably.

 

Fair and measured points, Johnster!  Add-in the need to manage expectations of the customer base too; the length of time to get these products to market would suggest that announcements of a couple of products per year is more the norm today than the double-figures ambitions of five years past.

[Covkid]

Brian & team thanks for another year of the poll, well done.

 

The interesting thing is how 'oddballs' have crept near to the top of the field presumably reflecting that either most more useful subjects have been covered (which seems unlikely) or that there is a solid group of folk to whom an oddball (such as the Leader) appeals simply because it is an oddball.  I wonder what influence this sort of voting will have on manufacturers and if it will divert their attention from more' bread & butter' high scorers such as the long overdue Class 120 dmus?  For example some of us might have a 'fluffy liking for a gas turbine 18000 but given a choice between that and a Class 120 set I know where many would put their money as the dmu would be far more useful and typical.

Interesting question.

I very much would like a green three car SCC with yellow panels, but that is only one of the number of options that could be produced. The issue is of course that whoever chose produce the units would have very significant development costs which would have to be passed on with the price tag.

 

Contrast with either of the "Kerosene Castles" which are effectively quite similar to the Kernow D6xx in terms of desirability, and I am guessing a price tag of approx £180 could see one on the front of an existing rake of WR or Mk1s, already sitting on a layout. What I am trying to convey is a gas turbine could be just another loco purchase as distinct from a three car DMU which would be a greater outlay. They would probably both sell well, the loco particularly to collectors

[Covkid]

BTW thanks to all involved in the poll. Some interesting results indeed.

I was surprised the class 180 DMU pipped the Swindon Cross Country DMU, but it perhaps highlights the fact that there are many modellers of recent history.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Covkid

 

Many thanks for the appreciation.

 

Am I reading your post correctly, in that you are under the impression that the Class 180 was higher than Class 120?

 

If so, it was the other way round. Class 120 was in The Top 50 (338 votes) and Class 180 was High Polling (198 votes).

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[TravisM]

Age vs era has been discussed to death but it always rears its ugly head. Ultimately there never seems to be much correlation... There are all sorts of reasons people choose subjects to model, some older modellers enjoy modelling the railways of today, some younger modellers enjoy modelling the railways of 60+ years ago =)

It was never my intention to raise any discussions “ugly head”, more a curiosity as though I remember BR blue, sectorisation, the start of privatisation and fond memories of these but I model the present day because all the information I need is easily available both digitally or photographically.

[prtrainman]

.

 

Thanks for all your efforts  -  I am very grateful.

 

I must admit to not understanding most of the most "popular" of the results, both for the overall but especially for the Southern  -  a very peculiar selection still a poll is a poll.

 

Hope it helps the manufacturers, although I have my concerns.

 

.

 

Firstly, another thank you to the Poll Team for all of your efforts. An interesting set of results. Like Phil,and others, I am a bit surprised by some of the more esoteric choices. The Bullied Leader polling higher than the LBSC 'K' class 2-6-0!  This for an experimental class of which only one loco was actually completed and, as far as I know, never actually ran in revenue-earning service. As others have remarked, I guess some modellers just like to have as varied a collection as possible.

 

I am not sure how much of a model's development costs are taken up by the chassis compared to the body, but it has already been commented that the chassis for the N15X could be used for a LBSC 'L' class. Likewise a SECR 'D' chassis could be used for a D1 4-4-0 and the LNER 'Hush-Hush' for the W1. I am sure there are lots of other examples, especially going back to pre-group days when some classes were rebuilt quite drastically before they reached their final forms.

['CHARD]

Like Phil,and others, I am a bit surprised by some of the more esoteric choices. The Bullied Leader polling higher than the LBSC 'K' class 2-6-0!  This for an experimental class of which only one loco was actually completed and, as far as I know, never actually ran in revenue-earning service. As others have remarked, I guess some modellers just like to have as varied a collection as possible.

 

With due respect, the word there is probably more collectors, but I'm splitting hairs.  

 

Anyway, it's long overdue that we saw this: