Industrial Beyer Garratt in EM gauge

[Barclay]

The postman brought me a present yesterday - Two N20 motor/gearbox units from China - very quick service and only about a fiver for the pair.

 

Two of the bevel gears were bored out to 3mm as carefully as possible. With no suitable equipment I could only bodge it and I have to say they are not perfectly concentric but these gears seem to be very forgiving. Having said that I will definitely try to obtain some with a 3mm bore for next time.

 

For the motor mounts, a section of 'L' - shaped brass was filed to be a fit between the frames, then soldered to the edges of the gearbox with 179 solder. It needs to be offset from the centre to permit the gears to mesh so, sighting it by eye, I made marks on the brass section, and drilled it to take the motor mounting screws that came with the N20's. Then I could screw the motor mount to the gearbox while I soldered it. 

 

The motor was then offered up to the chassis, running at low revs, so I could test the mesh of the bevel gears and when I was happy, a dab with the iron, armed with 145 solder affixed the crossmember to the chassis. Never soldered in a motor whilst it was running before but it worked !

 

I'm very pleased with the running - both chassis are turning over very smoothly indeed - I can't wait to install pick-ups so I can play with  test them.

 

 

 

 

[Michael Edge]

These bevel gears are very difficult to open out with a drill, I did try as an experiment but had to go back to boring them in the lathe.

[brack]

Did mine from 3mm to 1/8" with a tapered cutting broach. It hurt my fingers (no holder!). Using the lathe is far more civilised, but I didn't have it back then.

[Barclay]

Well I've finally braved the icy wastes of my loft and fitted pick ups to the 2 chassis. With a temporary bridging piece of brass and some weight applied the whole unit is running well. I plan to bridge the 2 units with a couple of wires once the body has been built so each set of pickups is feeding both units.

 

 

 

Valve gear next. I would like to attach the return cranks to some Gibson crankpin retaining screws but the shoulder on them is too big for the return crank so I'll have to think again. I really want to be able to screw the return cranks onto the crankpins so they are easy to secure, but I've little experience of Walschaerts, so I am open to suggestions...

[Barclay]

Well I hope everyone had a decent Christmas and that your modelling activities were more enjoyable than mine. That valve gear was very hard work - Nothing wrong with the parts supplied, although the motion bracket needs a fair bit of re-shaping, just a lack of dexterity on my part I think. The valve gear was assembled using the rivets supplied, although I substituted 16BA brass nuts and bolts in key locations to make it easier to put the sub-assemblies together. Clearances were an issue and in EM at least, it is vital to space the cylinders off the chassis frames as indicated in the instructions. I also had some issues with the return cranks, again due to incompetence, necessitating the re-manufacture of at least 2 of them. These are tricky little things, needing to be very securely located on the crankpin (dab of solder). Even so I managed to suffer from binding and, in one case, the force was sufficient to turn the crankpin. This meant the wheel had to come off to re-secure it with a piece of wire melted across the screw head. It was all pretty desperate stuff but at last I managed to get all 4 sets working and not impairing the running too badly ! Needless to say I have satisfied myself with the valve gear as supplied, which is somewhat simplified - The loco is in mid-gear with no motion imparted to the valve rod, which is only a dummy in any case. Walschaerts can look lovely with everything moving but I really think this level of refinement is beyond me. Over Christmas I finally managed to get hold of a long sought-after kit, the K's Fowler Dock tank. Only problem? More Walschaerts.....

 

The base for the superstructure folded up nicely and now the loco is starting to look the part. I'm looking forward to some hopefully less stressful and more enjoyable superstructure work now.

 

 

If you are at the Chiltern Model Railway Exhibition in Stevenage on Saturday I'll be on the EM Gauge Society stand so please come and say "Hello". Just don't look too closely at the valve gear!

 

 

 

[Barclay]

The main superstructure assembles onto a hefty fold-up brass sub base, to which the footplate sides with frames extensions are attached. I must say it is very odd putting together what is in effect a loco body with absolutely no 'works' in it at all ! The smokebox and firebox are cast white metal and there's a lot of brass so the whole unit is starting to weigh a fair amount. I did add a chunk of waste white metal into the boiler as well, it seemed rude not to with all that space available. The weight was the cut up remains of the deformed boiler bottom from a Kingdom Kits Barclay, rejected when I built it 20 years ago - at last I've found a use for it.

 

I did have a small issue with the smokebox as it was cast a little out of register - corrected by heavy sanding,  but of course you lose the rivets in the process, so I made a wrapper from riveted 5 thou brass, and super glued it to the freshly sanded smokebox, secured at the bottom with a dab of solder. 

 

 

 

The firebox needed some sanding too but that's fine because that comes with an etched wrapper which fitted nicely. The white metal chimney was 'blind' and rather than attempt to drill it out it was easier to substitute a replacement - I wondered if I would ever find a use for that brass GWR 61XX chimney... It is very close in terms of shape and size and seems to look the part. 

 

 

Once it's all fixed together and cleaned up it will be time to add the details then move to the body work for the engine units.

[Barclay]

The tanks and bunker, the superstructures for the engine units themselves are formed from etched overlays on a fold up structure. I messed one up and had to re-fold it. I don't think it's kink-free but I think this can be resolved. The only problem I've had with this part of the build is the way they attach to the running plates, which are part of the chassis. You therefore need to be able to remove the bodies to access the motors.

 

For this job the instructions tell you to solder captive 14BA nuts into the tanks, and secure with bolts from under the running plate. I really struggled with this, because 14BA is tiny and I kept getting solder on the thread (even when I up-sized to 10BA I couldn't do it, but I would have persevered if I hadn't realised that the bolt, inserted from underneath, would first have to be threaded through the valve gear. This seemed so impossibly tricky that I devised an easier, if less elegant way to do it:

 

10BA nuts soldered to the top of the footplates:

 

Then holes drilled into the top of the tanks, with brass tube underneath to take the bolts, which are fed in from the top. The bigger tube is wide enough to take the head of the bolt, but there is a smaller one inside it, a little shorter, that will only take the shaft. When the bolts are inserted from the top, the heads are thus flush with the top of the tank:

On the bunker I can cover them with coal, but on the front tank it will have to be oil cans or something. At least I know I can get it apart if I need to.

 

I have also run two wires through the main superstructure so I can link the 2 engine units electrically. At present the connection is only temporary but what a difference to the running - it really is so smooth and unstoppable with full 8 wheel pick up, and I'm really looking forward to doing some shunting with it in due course. Some way to go yet though.....

 

 

Sorry for these huge photo's - the new format is taking some getting used to. Is there a way to make them appear smaller I wonder?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Barclay

[Sandhole]

20 hours ago, Barclay said:

The tanks and bunker, the superstructures for the engine units themselves are formed from etched overlays on a fold up structure. I messed one up and had to re-fold it. I don't think it's kink-free but I think this can be resolved. The only problem I've had with this part of the build is the way they attach to the running plates, which are part of the chassis. You therefore need to be able to remove the bodies to access the motors.

 

For this job the instructions tell you to solder captive 14BA nuts into the tanks, and secure with bolts from under the running plate. I really struggled with this, because 14BA is tiny and I kept getting solder on the thread (even when I up-sized to 10BA I couldn't do it, but I would have persevered if I hadn't realised that the bolt, inserted from underneath, would first have to be threaded through the valve gear. This seemed so impossibly tricky that I devised an easier, if less elegant way to do it:

 

10BA nuts soldered to the top of the footplates:

 

Then holes drilled into the top of the tanks, with brass tube underneath to take the bolts, which are fed in from the top. The bigger tube is wide enough to take the head of the bolt, but there is a smaller one inside it, a little shorter, that will only take the shaft. When the bolts are inserted from the top, the heads are thus flush with the top of the tank:

On the bunker I can cover them with coal, but on the front tank it will have to be oil cans or something. At least I know I can get it apart if I need to.

 

I have also run two wires through the main superstructure so I can link the 2 engine units electrically. At present the connection is only temporary but what a difference to the running - it really is so smooth and unstoppable with full 8 wheel pick up, and I'm really looking forward to doing some shunting with it in due course. Some way to go yet though.....

 

 

Sorry for these huge photo's - the new format is taking some getting used to. Is there a way to make them appear smaller I wonder?

 

 

 

 

 

Ruddy Goergeous Mate!!!!!

Looking forward to seeing it painted and suitably weathered!!

                                                                             Chris.

[Barclay]

And so we grind ever closer to completion. I think it's as ready as it can be, except for the delicate business of final assembly, and the loco is now in the paint shop. So, a last look at it in the loveliness of brass....

The tank/bunker units have been detailed, and a representation of the 'bits' under the boiler cradle. I've also added boiler bands from Scotch magic tape and have prepared the pipework to go on the boiler. These pipes won't be fitted until after paint, so I can leave a little copper showing through here and there.

 

[Barclay]

Well it looks reasonable and can still move under its own power so I'm quitting while I'm ahead. After much consideration I decided the loco should really be in my standard livery (currently GWR green) rather than the North Stafford red they look so good in. I've tried to liven this up with the red maker's plates and number plates (Backwoods are the only kit maker I have come across who actually include maker's plates, so full marks for that, and no business for Narrow Planet this time, although theirs would be sharper). I've also left some of the boiler pipework as fairly fresh looking copper, which is pretty improbable really.

 

I still need to glaze the cab, but I have to make sure it doesn't obstruct the cab interior's ability to slide out, and you need to be able to do this in order to access the nut that connects the rear engine unit to the boiler cradle.I also made up the brakes but haven't actually fitted them - they would have added significant complication if the pick-ups ever need work. I don't think their omission on these tiny chassis is too noticeable. I also need to get some nice oil cans to hide the fixing nuts on the bunker.

 

Overall, then, concerns about scale aside, the kit certainly builds into something that looks the part. I found the gearboxes impossibly difficult, and had some other issues I've already described. I also think the instructions let it down a little, if only because they are very vague about certain areas - you can't just build this kit, you really need to know what these loco's look like or there's stuff you will miss completely. (That boiler pipework, for instance). Once I realised this and surrounded myself with pictures I made fewer mistakes. Was it an enjoyable build? Well, let's say I'm pleased it's done......

 

 

 

[Ruston]

It looks well. What does it weigh?

[Barclay]

275g. I know it could be a lot more but its nicely balanced and there's a limit to how much lead you can get in  the extreme front and rear ! In the words of Rolls Royce, power output is 'adequate'.

 

[Sandhole]

4 hours ago, Barclay said:

Well it looks reasonable and can still move under its own power so I'm quitting while I'm ahead. After much consideration I decided the loco should really be in my standard livery (currently GWR green) rather than the North Stafford red they look so good in. I've tried to liven this up with the red maker's plates and number plates (Backwoods are the only kit maker I have come across who actually include maker's plates, so full marks for that, and no business for Narrow Planet this time, although theirs would be sharper). I've also left some of the boiler pipework as fairly fresh looking copper, which is pretty improbable really.

 

I still need to glaze the cab, but I have to make sure it doesn't obstruct the cab interior's ability to slide out, and you need to be able to do this in order to access the nut that connects the rear engine unit to the boiler cradle.I also made up the brakes but haven't actually fitted them - they would have added significant complication if the pick-ups ever need work. I don't think their omission on these tiny chassis is too noticeable. I also need to get some nice oil cans to hide the fixing nuts on the bunker.

 

Overall, then, concerns about scale aside, the kit certainly builds into something that looks the part. I found the gearboxes impossibly difficult, and had some other issues I've already described. I also think the instructions let it down a little, if only because they are very vague about certain areas - you can't just build this kit, you really need to know what these loco's look like or there's stuff you will miss completely. (That boiler pipework, for instance). Once I realised this and surrounded myself with pictures I made fewer mistakes. Was it an enjoyable build? Well, let's say I'm pleased it's done......

 

 

 

Lord and Lady that is so tasty!!!!

I said you would do a superb job and I've been proved right!!!

Lovely job!

                            Chris.

[Gordon A]

Well done and a very nice job.

I am envious because I have collected four of these kits to build - one in each livery.

One was turned out in red.

 

Gordon A

[Barclay]

Wow I don't think I could build four and retain my sanity. Four of anything to be fair!

[Sandhole]

It is interesting that you found the gearboxes to be swines.

Mike, when he built mine, had to take the, supposed , foldup gearbox apart to make it work! Having talked to two people who were running them in the 90s, he was not the only one!!!!!!!

I know this is cheeky, but you will appreciate I have to ask again!!!

Any chance of getting the Gin Pit Naismith Wilson drawings?

I realise what you told me last time, but I had to try!!!!

I'll now get my coat!!

                                    Chris.

[Barclay]

The gearboxes are a bit of a fiddle, but I did get one together. I'm at a loss to understand why it then managed  to tear itself to bits!

 

Well, the drawings - thing is if I'd drawn them myself, that would be fine, but I didn't and it's just not my place to publish or distribute someone else's work. It's my understanding that the owner of them doesn't want this. He's a really helpful and generous chap in my limited dealings with him, perhaps he's worried that some smart alec will come out of the woodwork and point out an error - people are good at that of course. I'll email him if you like just to be sure.

[rope runner]

Quite a fleet you have!

 

Is that an MRJ F class Manning Wardle? - Looks very nice, any chance of a better photo?

 

Paul A. 

[Sandhole]

1 hour ago, Barclay said:

The gearboxes are a bit of a fiddle, but I did get one together. I'm at a loss to understand why it then managed  to tear itself to bits!

 

Well, the drawings - thing is if I'd drawn them myself, that would be fine, but I didn't and it's just not my place to publish or distribute someone else's work. It's my understanding that the owner of them doesn't want this. He's a really helpful and generous chap in my limited dealings with him, perhaps he's worried that some smart alec will come out of the woodwork and point out an error - people are good at that of course. I'll email him if you like just to be sure.

If it dosen't put you in a spot, I'd greatly appreciate it if you could.

If not, I quite understand.

                                              Chris.

[Regularity]

3 hours ago, 1whitemoor said:

Quite a fleet you have!

 

Is that an MRJ F class Manning Wardle? - Looks very nice, any chance of a better photo?

 

Paul A. 

Looks a bit like a little Black, Hawthorne.

 

There is so much more about this layout and the stock that we are yet to be told...!

Edited March 9, 2019 by Regularity
Edit. Looking closely, yes, an F but we need (want) to know more!

[Corbs]

It looks incredible, very nice.

[Michael Edge]

17 hours ago, Barclay said:

The gearboxes are a bit of a fiddle, but I did get one together. I'm at a loss to understand why it then managed  to tear itself to bits!

 

Well, the drawings - thing is if I'd drawn them myself, that would be fine, but I didn't and it's just not my place to publish or distribute someone else's work. It's my understanding that the owner of them doesn't want this. He's a really helpful and generous chap in my limited dealings with him, perhaps he's worried that some smart alec will come out of the woodwork and point out an error - people are good at that of course. I'll email him if you like just to be sure.

I find the Backwoods gearboxes extremely fiddly to assemble (and I've built at least 18 of them) and almost impossible to repair when they go wrong.

[Sandhole]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I find the Backwoods gearboxes extremely fiddly to assemble (and I've built at least 18 of them) and almost impossible to repair when they go wrong.

Oh thanks Mike!!!!

I'll really take care of my lady then. She is now getting on a bit, like me!!!!

Coachbogie, Mike, got in touch with me and said he'd build me the second kit, he is an old and valued friend!!!!, using the method Barclay has used!

I already have the motors and the spur gears so we'll see.

I'm stopping with him in April after Record Store Day, so I'll take them up.

                                                                                         Chris.

[Sandhole]

Scenery question.

Is your backscene warehouse and conglomeration of Walthers kits? It looks great and I'm in the process of sorting out the Walthers stuff I've amassed over the years, to start to do something with my low level goods yard/ industrial complex so ideas are very welcome!!

                                                          Chris.

[Michael Edge]

53 minutes ago, Sandhole said:

Oh thanks Mike!!!!

I'll really take care of my lady then. She is now getting on a bit, like me!!!!

Coachbogie, Mike, got in touch with me and said he'd build me the second kit, he is an old and valued friend!!!!, using the method Barclay has used!

I already have the motors and the spur gears so we'll see.

I'm stopping with him in April after Record Store Day, so I'll take them up.

                                                                                         Chris.

I've had to repair two of the ones I've built so far, one was a damaged spur gear which I managed to replaced, the other, I can't remember what was wrong with it but I did get it fixed.