ScotRail 1987/88 Workbench

[EddieK]

Just found this thread. I was based on ScotRail for a few months in 1987 and seeing these push-pull sets brings the memories back!

 

Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing more ScotRail stock.

[jono26]

Not a lot of coach building on the workbench at the moment as I am busy on the layout tidying up the ballast and applying some light weathering as well as painting the platforms ready for fitting. In the meantime I thought a couple of shots of the complete mk3a push pull rake would look good as a conclusion to this DBSO and coach build. Here is 47715 Haymarket passing the coach depot and approaching platform 1 on a service from Glasgow 

 

Help Wanted - On hold on the workbench I have a Bachmann 47 which has been reworked into 47550 University of Dundee from the base model 47436. What I would like to do is fit the ploughs onto the under frame, like Heljan do instead of the bogies so I can add pipe work. I have some spare Heljan ploughs but I cannot find the space to get these in without fouling the leading edge of the bogies. I am also considering the PH designs ploughs. Ideally I also wanted to fit a Kadee to the under frame rather than bogies but again no space for the draft gear box. I have searched rmweb  and the internet but not come across any explanation of how this is done or if it is possible.

Thanks in advance for suggestions

 

Jonathan

[jono26]

Class 47 - 47550 University of Dundee

 

Next up is a class 47 project reworking a Bachmann ready to run into 47550 University of Dundee. Having done a lot of research into this engine I searched for a suitable rtr engine from Heljan or Bachmann which would minimise the amount of work required as I didn’t want to have to strip back to basics and do a lot of modifications. For the first round of work on this 47 I wanted to concentrate on getting the basic livery and design features correct, new super detailing of hand rails, glazing etc can wait for now. Also I am not weathering the finished engine at this time.

I am using the excellent class www.47.co.uk website for prototype reference. For those that do not know this site it is a wealth of ‘free’ information and if you use it please donate a couple of quid in support.

The main features of 47550 in my 87/88 modelling period are – BR blue large logo, Inverness stag depot logo, original underframe tanks and battery boxes, Spanner mkIII round boiler plate, black head code, blue roof and no orange cantrail stripe. This being a Scotrail 47 the numbers were smaller than usual for the large logo livery so consider this when ordering decals. Prototype pictures also show this was fitted with ploughs minus the centre section.

 

The donner RtR model for this is the Bachmann model of 47436 selected for the full under frame tanks/boxes and Spanner mkIII boiler port but requiring the following modifications; Remove TDM aerials and respray roof blue, Remove numbers and data panels, Paint head code panel black, Remove orange cantrail

 

Items I used

Railtec 47550-5 £6.90 numbers and name plate (correct size numbers and 3D printed name plates)

Railtec 1279 (6 pairs) £3.90 Inverness stag

Fox transfers F4360/1 (156) £4.35– Data panels (I bought a sheet of these as I have a lot more locos)

Railmatch RM 310: Roof Dark Blue-Grey

Humbrol matt black for headcode

 

Having cut off the aerials the V was filed flush with the roof and sanded smooth and sprayed with grey primer. Once dry the primer is sanded with 1200 grade paper and then cleaned thoroughly before spraying the dark blue.

The numbers and data panels were removed with the side of a wooden cocktail stick and tidied up with a gentle rub over with T-cut on a cotton bud.

 

Roof resprayed in RM310 Dark Blue-Grey. I removed the double fan unit which is held in by two small screws.

 

The head code was painted matt black and the body sides where the new decals are applied got a coat of Phoenix Precision gloss (the airbrush premix). As usual left this 48 hours and then applied the new decals.  Have to say I am very impressed with the Railtec 3d decal name plates. All decals were then sealed with a coat of matt varnish

 

Next update I will show how I solved the body fixed ploughs and kadee coupler so I could detail the buffer beam with pipes

 

Jonathan

[jono26]

Body mounted Bachmann Ploughs – how to

This is the result of several trial designs which have been iterated over the past 2-3 months to end up with something robust enough to pull a rake of up to 10 coaches, avoiding the mounting mechanism distorting and not having the kadee pull off. For now I am happy with this version though I have another design in mind which I will try out as time allows.

The design of a body mounted plough on the Bachmann 47 is challenging as there is very little space between the leading edge/front of the bogie and the buffer beam where the ploughs need to be mounted. The key to the design is finding a wire which will not deform under the expected load of pulling a rake of coaches. The 0.7mm wire I used requires a high force to bend and then holds its bent shape well. At this time I cannot recommend what the wire is or where to get it as I got this from my wife’s jewellery making stock box. If/when I find out I will post details.

 

Instructions (see picture below)

1. I used 0.7mm stiff steel wire which holds its shape when bent. This needs to be strong enough for mounting on the body and not bending under the expected load.

2. 1.5mm square strip drilled length ways with 0.7mm drill to hold the wire

3. 1.5mm square strip glued to the back of the ploughs either side in line with the cross brace

4. 1mm plasticard strip cut to fit below the cross brace and behind the ploughs below the 1.5mm square strip

5. NEM couple fork cut off

6. 0.25mm packing piece below the kadee to set the correct height

7. Kadee fixed with super glue

9. Kadee drilled through with 1mm bit and plasticard pin glued in place for additional strength

10. 0.7mm wire bent approx. 90degree and pushed into the predrilled 1.5mm square section

11. Edge of wire should be just inside the outer edge of the plough – do not glue this

12. Ensure the wire is bent such that the uprights are close to vertical when fitted in the plough

13. On the underside of the 47 fix a section of 1mm plasticard in the back corner of each buffer beam being careful not to get glue on the buffer spring

14. Drill 0.7mm hole as shown in the underside of the buffer beam

15. Because the holding pins are set at an angle to the buffer beam they do not bend down and hold position under load.

16. The pins are friction fit into the buffer beam holes and during testing on the layout they have not moved so I have avoided gluing at this time.

 

 

Jonathan

[jono26]

ScotRail Mk2 push pull rake

 

After completing the Mk3a project attention has now turned to Mk2 coaches and the formation of two rakes more typically seen in Aberdeen in the late 80's. As before I have done a lot of research to get a good understanding of the rakes and coach details and there is a lot of information already on RMweb so I will only summarise on the key points here.

In my modelling period 87/88 the Mk2 push pull rakes from Glasgow and Edinburgh to Aberdeen were formed into 5 and 6 coach rakes from a pool of Craigentinny based coaches.

12x Mk2D TSO – ScR livery 5623,5653,5659,5662,5663,5671,5673,5694,5711,5716,5726,5740

5x Mk2z TSO – ScR livery 5146,5152,5153,5176,5197

7x Mk2D TSOT – ScR livery 6601,6604,6605,6607(blue/grey),6613,6614,6619

4x Mk2E FO – ScR livery 3245,3247,3248,3265

1x Mk2F FO – ScR livery 3284

2x Mk2A FK – blue/grey livery13456, 13461

 

From the above list I plan the following

4x Mk2D TSO - 5623 5694 5663 5726

1xMk2z TSO - 5197

2x Mk2D TSOT – 6614, 6607

1x Mk2E FO - 3247

1x Mk2A FK - 13461

 

Which should allow for several rake permutations, but I will start off with;

47/7-Mk2z TSO-2x MK2D TSO-Mk2D TSOT-Mk2A FK-Mk2F DBSO

47/7-2x MK2D TSO-Mk2D TSOT-Mk2E FO-Mk2F DBSO

 

Over the past five years since the layout idea developed, which requires a significant number of coaches, I have picked up old Dapol and Hornby Mk2D coaches on line or at shows for as little money as possible. This includes some very tired looking examples which doesn’t really matter as they will all be stripped back and resprayed. For the Mk2E FO I will be converting a Mk2D FO

 

Base models

Mk2z TSO x1 Bachmann blue/grey

ScotRail respray and No. 5197. Disc braked so requires bogie and underframe modifications as well as brake discs on the wheels. As this was air brake fitted the vacuum cylinders were removed and an air distributor needs to be added.

 

Mk2A FK x1 Bachmann blue/grey - renumber/ScotRail text, No. 13461

 

Mk2D TSO x4 Dapol exec. Livery

ScotRail respray and re number  5623 5694 5663 5726,

 

Mk2D TSOT x2

Hornby exec. livery – ScotRail respray and No. 6614

and

Hornby blue/grey renumber to 6607 and ScotRail decal with Red buffet line extended over the door

 

Mk2E FO x1

Dapol Mk2D FO exec. Livery, conversion. Door windows corrected to same depth as passenger windows, roevac vent change on roof (two vents at the non-roof panel end and one vent at the roof panel end on the non-toilet side), bumper stop removed from doors, corridor doors fawn colour. ScotRail respray and No. 3247

 

All Mk2D/E Air Cons to be fitted with Replica B4 Bogies, Shawplan laser glaze, new buffer beams and retracted buffers and additional under frame detailing. All handrails, door handles and grab handles and lamp irons to be replaced.

 

I may regret this later, but I decided not to use etched frames on the Mk2 air cons mainly due to cost but also I was pleased with the look of the budget DBSO build so decided to just use Shawplan laserglaze only which is 6x TSO and 1 x FO so still a significant investment in the project. Thanks to a visit to the Glasgow show back in February I have the necessary stock of windows for the project.

 

Detailing items

Fox transfers – Scotrail duplex lining, coach numbers, livery lettering and coach detailing

Replica B4 bogies x7

Hornby 12mm wheel

Stenson models - discs brakes CC07W 1 set

Dart castings/MJT  - Door handles (2930) /retracted buffers (2934)

0.3mm wire for hand rails

JSW Coach End Steps from existing stock + 2 sets scratch build brass

JSW Bogie steps from existing stock + 2 sets scratch build brass

ETH sockets and receptacles x18 pairs – scratch build plasticard and wire

TSOT buffet signs x4

Shawplan laserglaze for Mk2D/E x6 TSO 1x FO

 

Making a Start

Starting point was to disassemble all the air con coaches and remove the glazing which was not as easy as first thought on the two Hornby coaches which both required glazing to be broken out in small parts due to excessive glue. The bogies were all set aside as I will replace with the much better detailed Replica Railways B4 bogies.

I will replace all the handles, hand rails and lamp irons so the plastic mouldings were carefully removed and the area sanded with fine paper. The roof was sanded to remove the prominent weld ridges and for the Mk2e FO the roevac vent next to the roof panel on the non toilet side was removed.

 

 

I am already some way on with this project so more to follow soon

 

Jonathan

[jono26]

Air Con Under Frame Modifications

Working on 7 coaches at the same time allows for a more efficient production line of processes but the down side is repetition and apparent slow progress. This stage took quite a while to get to what you see in the picture below.

The under frames of the Hornby are still the same as the original Airfix moulding and although complete with most components and boxes I think some parts can be improved or replaced. First off the curved buffer beam is cut off to be replaced with a scratch built 1mm plasticard (same as I did for the DBSO;s) I made a template for this as I need 14 of them. These are then measured out and holes drilled for new retracted buffers.

The alternator unit on the original mould is one thing that always stands out for me as looking wrong, too big a diameter and looks short as a result. Easy to scratch build from plasticard tubing with a little filing of profiles.

 

Further under frame modifications to come

 

Jonathan

[westie7]

Between yours and Eddie's workbench, it got me digging out the "part finished coaches box"

 

Must resist 

 

Anyway, sitting looking at this Mk2d BFK and I've got the urge to cut out below the doors for a bit more depth. Might help improve the look along with blending the tumblehome a bit?

 

Maybe?

[jono26]

Additional Under Frame modifications

The Stones double AC fan units were cut off with a wide blade razor saw and remounted on 2mm plasticard to get them a the correct height (I think having looked at the pictures another 1mm  lower would be more accurate but close enough as they are), to get to the fan I had to also cut off the first box to its left and refix. See picture below. I also cut off and remounted the box to the left of the battery box.

Despite some of the other boxes not being 100% correct I am happier with the look of the under frame with the changes I have made

Note also that the central fan hubs stick out beyond the fan cowl so I have added a section of plasticard and also added a small 0.5mm piece on top which represents the cable housing into which I drilled a hole for the wire.

I cut out the ETS socket position on the end of the coach body and will replace this with a section of plasticard on the top of the under frame. That way I can fit a dummy plug into the recess.

 

Jonathan

 

[jono26]

Having completed the air con under frame detailing with JSW end steps, I modified two TSO interiors for the TSOT’s  with partitions and the counter top, I will not be fitting interior lights so kept this simple.

 

All the air con interiors, bodies and under frames were given a coat of Halford grey plastic primer.

 

With this first coat of primer the coach bodies have been checked where I removed mouldings and modified the door window openings on the E FO, more filler applied, and sanding as required. At this stage I have marked out and drilled all the holes for door and roof handles, grab handles, end handrails and lamp irons, in total 32 holes drilled per coach. I have made the roof panel handles and coach end hand rails from 0.3mm wire, which will be fitted next (door handles, and grab handles are fitted after the lining and livery are complete), followed by giving the bodies a good clean then a final coat of primer. For the blue/grey TSOT I intend to keep the existing Hornby paint job on the body sides but respray the roof and ends where I have made modifications. I couldn’t match the light grey so I will not remove the door and grab handle.

 

Next up the bogies and making a start on the two non AC Bachmann Mk2's

 

Next weekend, 29th, is the Perth exhibition so looking forward to catching up with fellow modellers and also stocking up on building materials for the layout 

 

Jonathan

[charliepetty]

Say Hello when you visit the stand:  Ian & Charlie (Legomanbiffo & REALTRACK Models)

[jono26]

Good question Eddie, not sure yet. I read somewhere that Railtec do them but having searched their website I couldn't find any so maybe have to print my own on photo paper and mount on plasticard behind the window.  Any suggestions?

 

The batch process is good in a way but can become repetitive, so I like to break this up by having sessions on the layout scenery.

Jonathan

[jono26]

2 hours ago, charliepetty said:

Say Hello when you visit the stand:  Ian & Charlie (Legomanbiffo & REALTRACK Models)

 

will do

 

[westie7]

This continues to be absolutely inspiring Jonathan, so much proper modelling that can be done with these old coaches

 

Regards

Mark

[ColinK]

Great modelling.

 

Any more info on making the Glasgow - Edinburgh class 27 push pull sets would be appreciated, I’ll be making one when I get the time.

[jono26]

Colin,

 

This is a little outside my modelling era as the last 27 push pulls ceased operation in early 1980. In this thread I am focusing on 87/88 time period with class 47 and DBSO push pull operations. There is plenty of info here on RMweb, I did a quick search and it turned up several links for the 27's. The Mk2z I will be working on next in this thread is one from the old 27 push pull era which survived into the 80's era of operations so you may want to come back to this thread over the coming month to see  what I do.

 

Cheers

Jonathan

 

[railtec-models]

On 22/06/2019 at 13:53, Eddie R v2.0 said:

I did have a brief exchange of messages with Steve at Railtec about them a while ago-I'm in no rush as its the only bit of my coach (6603 in B/G) that needs finished. He has more than enough to keep him going without adding to his workload! 

 

These are still in the pipe Eddie :>)

[Flood]

On 22/06/2019 at 11:01, Eddie R v2.0 said:

... What are you doing for the "Buffet" sign for inside the windows? 

 

Cheers

 

I used N gauge transfers for the stock on Kirkhill but these are upper and lower case and some coaches had all upper case.

[jono26]

The 7 Hornby/Dapol AC coaches are having the bogies replaced with Replica Railways detailed B4 bogies, these just needed steps fitting after which a coat of primer was applied, which now means all the air con coach parts (body, under frame and bogies) are ready for painting.

 

I then started on the Bachmann Mk2a FK removing the under frame from the body and taking the bogies off, I will be retaining the Bachmann B4 bogies for the two non AC coaches, these just require steps. I took the opportunity to correct the height of the battery boxes fitting them 2mm higher. No other changes to do other than fit the ETS sockets and cables and end steps. This coach will retain the blue grey livery so just the ScotRail branding and numbers to apply and it is pretty much done. With this realisation I changed from engineering to soft furnishings and added some interior detailing of seat covers, headrests and curtains. I am not fitting lighting to my coaches so no need to be super accurate. The main thing is to get the look of the orange seat covers and white head rest cushions – printed paper and plasticard respectively. Orange curtains are textured orange card. For the seat fabric I found an image online like the striped pattern of the original first-class seats. This was printed in bands which when cut to the correct width would fold neatly into the seat glued in place with rocket card glue. See picture below

 

Jonathan

[jono26]

Mk2z TSO

The base of this model is the Bachmann Mk2z TSO which is correct for the body and gangway doors but the under frame is set up for a vacuum braked coach. This coach was part of the original ScotRail push pull fleet top and tailed by class 27’s and was modified for air braking using disc brakes. As such the Bachmann under frame need some modifications to be prototypical, remove vacuum brake cylinders, add air brake gear and air distributor (top right on the photo). I scratch built the air brake cylinders taking measurements from the Mk2a under frame but the distributor was taken from a Mk2a BSO which at some point in the future will become a vacuum braked BSOT from Inverness. In addition, the bogies need the air brake system added as per the DBSO bogies (detailed previously in my DBSO build) and the wheels need brake discs. Note I will be switching the Bachmann wheels for Hornby 12mm wheels so I can glue in the brake discs)

The body will be resprayed to ScotRail blue stripe livery, so I removed the ‘intercity’ and number with t-cut and I carefully removed the windows for re-use and removed the roof section. The body was given a light sand with 800 grade paper followed by a thorough clean ready for a coat of primer The gangway ends are difficult to remove so I left them attached and masked up for painting. 

 

When it came to adding bogie steps and coach end steps to the two Bachmann Mk2's I discovered I had run out of the etches so had a go at scratch building these from left over brass sprue and 0.45mm brass wire. Examples below. I am not really set up for working in brass or even have experience with this so I did a lot of trial and error until I got something I was happy with. 

 

Jonathan

[jono26]

The bogies and under frames are now painted, note I only painted the modified parts of the two Bachmann under frames. At some point in the future all the coaches will have the under frames weathered. I modified the Hornby/Dapol bogie fitting bearing with plasticard packing to allow the bogies to be attached via a nut and bolt. Picture below shows the AC under frames which now only need the ETS sockets fitting, I will be scratch building these. The under frame boxes are in reality all square and not misaligned as the photo below suggests.

 

The bogies below are all B4’s, left are Replica Railways and on rights Bachmann which have been fitted with scratch built/bodged brass footsteps as per previous post and the lower two have the extra piping for the air brake system fitted to the Mk2z TSO, see my DBSO and Mk3a thread for how I did this. Close up I am not 100% happy with the alignment of the piping this time around but from viewing distance they look just fine and give the coach a stand out difference when running in a rake.

 

The TSO interiors including the TSOT’s have been painted blue with the buffet area light grey and the wooden counter tops painted brown, no interior lighting is planned so this should be OK. It looks a tad too blue in these pictures but once behind tinted glass windows it should be OK. The FO interior I hope I have got right with rust coloured seats and off white table tops and the Mk2z blue seats and black table tops.

 

The bodies had a final coat of primer after the handrails and lamp irons were fitted, this was lightly sanded with 1200 grade paper before a thorough clean ready for the first coat of executive light grey. I usually wait 48 hours after cleaning to ensure the surface is completely dried out.  I spray painted the exec. light grey (Phoenix Precision) on 7 of the coaches in one session and will again leave this a minimum 48 hours before masking up for the dark grey.

 

Jonathan

[jono26]

For a bit of variation I like to have a three different work bench projects on the go at anyone time, coach, engine and layout. With the bench currently awash with coaches I decided I would tackle a simple 47 change of ID project.

 

47642 Strathisla (Inverness Depot)

Another of my favourites in Executive Livery and Inverness depot stag 47642 Strathisla is probably an even easier identity change than the previous 47550. The donner model for the conversion is Bachmann 31-651 47612 Titan which has similar Exec livery and under frame boxes. The plated over boiler port of the Clayton mk2 on Titan has an additional inner plate but otherwise is similar to the stones vapour of Strathisla, I may remove this, but it means a roof respray.

 

I removed the roof aerials as these were not fitted in my time period, simple case of pulling out and the area filing/sanding flush before filling the hole. There is also a minor livery change to the head code area which will need the lower half painting yellow, Titan is all Exec. Dark grey. All existing names, numbers and intercity branding are removed with T cut and cotton bud / cocktail stick.

I will also model Strathisla with snow ploughs so same body mount modifications as previous with Kadee fitted in the central section.

 

Decals

Fox FEP47642 Strathisla etched name plate

Fox F4221-306 IC ScotRail lettering/Numbering

Railtec 1279 Inverness stag

 

The coach was masked up yesterday and the headcode area and front roof panel sprayed with white under coat as a base for the yellow, a little more sanding required as there is still a hint of the aerial V. I also added plasticard support to the underframe/buffer beam for the plough fitting.

 

Jonathan

[westie7]

Have you seen this?

 

 

Maybe too late if you have started your modifications, or not close enough to your timeframe

 

Rgds

Mark

[jono26]

Not seen this particular picture before, those were the days and great scenery and nice weather. I think the full black head code was sometime in 89 but not certain, as for the roof is that just dirt?

Because of all the variations in livery and depot allocation I have fixed my time period to 87/88 

 

Engine has already had white primer applied, sanded and re applied so hope to be getting the yellow on next week.

 

Jonathan

[westie7]

57 minutes ago, jono26 said:

Not seen this particular picture before, those were the days and great scenery and nice weather. I think the full black head code was sometime in 89 but not certain, as for the roof is that just dirt?

Because of all the variations in livery and depot allocation I have fixed my time period to 87/88 

 

Engine has already had white primer applied, sanded and re applied so hope to be getting the yellow on next week.

 

Jonathan

 Andrew Donnelly on Flickr, 20/04/90

And from other similar timed shots the roof is just manky

[westie7]

1 minute ago, Eddie R v2.0 said:

Shame you can't get views like that anymore at Carrbridge. Or many other places.....

Yeah some of the lineside views really going downhill. Weeds north of ABD thru the gardens like a scene from "I am Legend"