Talgo Factory for Longannet Site

[luckymucklebackit]

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2018/11/longannet-awaits-decision-on-1000-jobs-train-factory/

 

Jim

['CHARD]

Now it just remains for the Talgo team to win the HS2 order!

[Zomboid]

There is no way the UK market can sustain this factory as well as Derby, Newton Aycliffe, the CAF one that's coming to Wales and the proposed one at Goole (Siemens?).

 

I mean, great news for the people who might work there if they win the contract, but train building in the UK is a bubble which is going to burst.

['CHARD]

There is no way the UK market can sustain this factory as well as Derby, Newton Aycliffe, the CAF one that's coming to Wales and the proposed one at Goole (Siemens?).

 

I mean, great news for the people who might work there if they win the contract, but train building in the UK is a bubble which is going to burst

 

Siemens' Goole factory is essential to build the New Tube fleet for London Underground (NT4L).

 

Newton Aycliffe's future is bound up with the eventual winner of the South Eastern franchise and whether SE Metro is re-equipped with a fleet of AT200s, failing that Hitachi Europe could deliver future orders from its recently acquired Ansaldo factory in Italy, leaving Aycliffe as an overhaul facility in waiting.

 

CAF's UK heavy rail order book is relatively short, so they will be hoping for repeat orders of Urbos 3 trams for UK network expansion.

 

This leaves Bombardier - which is looking relatively quiet in four years' time, and waving a white flag....

[Danim]

Bombardier aerospace have cut 5,000 jobs and are really struggling at the moment so it wouldn't surprise me if bombardier don't exist in the next year or two

['CHARD]

Bombardier aerospace have cut 5,000 jobs and are really struggling at the moment so it wouldn't surprise me if bombardier don't exist in the next year or two

 

Don't forget that they are in an alliance with Hitachi for HS2 trains, https://www.railway-technology.com/news/hitachi-bombardier-open-hs2-bid-centre-birmingham/ - so if this consortium succeeds, Longannet won't come to fruition but Derby and Aycliffe could be sustained.

[Clay Country]

I don't think the short-term outlook is particularly grim, although rececent franchising policy has sustained and arguably exacerbated the age-old boom-and-bust cycle in rolling stock procurement.

 

The current big boom might be followed by a big bust that claims a plant or two. But for now there are a few positives.

 

New Tube for London will potentially keep Siemens' Goole plant busy until the 2030s if TfL exercises all of its options.

 

Bombardier, CAF and Hitachi are shortlisted for the Tyne & Wear Metro fleet replacement (alongside CRRC and Stadler. This is due to be awarded next year.

 

As already mentioned, Southeastern Networker replacement will generate a fair amount of work for one plant and of course there's HS2.

 

Looking further ahead, we could see Sprinter replacement in the next Great Western franchise, bi-modes for Cross Country and a follow-on HS2 order to expand the fleet for Phase 2. I would also expect Scotrail 318s, 320s and 334s to go before the end of the 2020s.

[luckymucklebackit]

Any prospect of replacement for the 150/153/155/156/158s, they were all introduced within a few years of each other and pre-date a lot of the stock that is being cited for replacement.

 

Jim

[Ramblin Rich]

Any prospect of replacement for the 150/153/155/156/158s, they were all introduced within a few years of each other and pre-date a lot of the stock that is being cited for replacement.

 

Jim

Absolutely, the 14x and 15x families were being talked about mid 1980s as replacement for 1st generation DMUs which had been in service for 20-25 years. So the replacement stock has now been running longer than 1st gen. stock was.

Devon are anticipating 158s as an improvement but not a lot younger than the current 143/150/153 fleet - and the 150s will still be around I believe.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Seems a bit politically naive to me.

 

If they want to persuade Govt to buy their trains, they should propose a factory in an area with marginal seats.

 

They might also find it easier in such areas to find a pool of suitably qualified workforce.

[pete_mcfarlane]

Are Talgo going to be building proper trains there, or do they actually think they can flog their flimsy 2 wheel contraptions to the UK rail industry? 

[phil-b259]

Are Talgo going to be building proper trains there, or do they actually think they can flog their flimsy 2 wheel contraptions to the UK rail industry? 

 

One of Talgos previously big marketing advantage was its low level carriages meant no big steps for folk to climb when boarding from continental low level platforms. Given the UK uses high level platforms etc then its extremely unlikely that Talgos 'stub axle' concept would be perpetuated over here when there is plenty of space for a proper bogie setup.

[BernardTPM]

Siemens' Goole factory is essential to build the New Tube fleet for London Underground (NT4L).

Can they make tube trains ride any better than their hopeless 350s?

[phil-b259]

Can they make tube trains ride any better than their hopeless 350s?

 

We have been through this before.

 

In Europe, railway administrations like DB put a lot of money into making sure the tracks themselves were nice and smooth - and consequently there was no need to design a suspension system that coped with poor track.

 

In the UK, BR preferred to spend its money on trying to design coach suspension to cope with rough track while travelling at high speed and thus incorporated lots of things that were simply not necessary for Siemens designs.

 

The IC225 procurement showed this - the Mk4 coach bogies by SIG ran absolutely fine in Switzerland where the track was good - but were found to be nowhere near as good as the rejected (and home grown bogie variety) once the trains started entering service.

 

So the ride quality of the TfL tube stock will depend on whether Siemens have learn't enough / willing to spend enough to design a bespoke solution for the UK - because if they simply use things derived from their existing design principles then the ride quality will be poor.

Edited November 14, 2018 by phil-b259

[Enterprisingwestern]

Seems a bit politically naive to me.

 

If they want to persuade Govt to buy their trains, they should propose a factory in an area with marginal seats.

 

They might also find it easier in such areas to find a pool of suitably qualified workforce.

 

At least Scotland voted to remain in the EU, might make it easier to find staff for a foreign company!

 

Mike.

[jjb1970]

Heaven forbid that any locals might want a job. There are a lot of very highly skilled workers in the area, it was a power plant near a major refinery and major dockyard to name just three very technical labour pools.

[Gibbo675]

Seems a bit politically naive to me.

 

If they want to persuade Govt to buy their trains, they should propose a factory in an area with marginal seats.

 

They might also find it easier in such areas to find a pool of suitably qualified workforce.

Hi Joseph,

 

Without wishing to sound overly gloomy, I was on a works shut down a couple of years ago and observed that approx 75% of the work force were highly competent with the remaining 25% being split 50-50 into, just about competent and not particularly competent to useless. I then observed that 60+% of the work force were over the age of 50 years, all of which I would put into the highly competent category. The small percentage of highly competent under the age of 30 years were either Polish or Czech a fair few of which had engineering degrees despite being on the tools.

 

My apprenticeship took five years and I came out fully skilled with a HND, I packed it all in because it annoys me somewhat after nearly 30 years to be told how to do my job by a twerp that has been on a "training course". It is with regret that I now work part time as a self employed joiner for I have had my passion for engineering kicked out of me.

 

Engineering in this country has been destroyed by politicians and accountants and with further regret, in the not to distant future, finding anyone to staff their factories could be a tad tricky should my above observations be correct.

 

Gibbo.

[Davexoc]

Privatisation killed the apprenticeship. It was the nationalised industries that trained the majority of the workforce, with the plcs tempting them away with higher wages because they didn't have/want to invest so heavily in training. It is now the same for train drivers, pilots etc. Those that train can't afford to pay top money, with those that don't taking their pick of the crop.

 

Most mid/late 40s and under now only know the fix by component changing method, change a, then b, then c etc. until it works again. They can't evaluate or diagnose problems.

 

Dave

[jjb1970]

The problem with youngsters is they're just not as good as we are. I've always said that, that's why they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

 

I find it hard to believe people would be as sanguine about young people making sweeping (inaccurate) generalisations about old people.

[298]

I find it hard to believe people would be as sanguine about young people making sweeping (inaccurate) generalisations about old people.

I've not heard of any young people going out on strike because the canteen had plain digestives instead of chocolate ones...

 

The employment market is still driven by the capitalist bosses, currently rubbing their hands with glee because whatever happens in a few months will mean stagnant wages and more opportunities to exploit the Labour market whilst their own high end taxes are reduced.

[chris p bacon]

I've not heard of any young people going out on strike because the canteen had plain digestives instead of chocolate ones...

 

The employment market is still driven by the capitalist bosses, currently rubbing their hands with glee because whatever happens in a few months will mean stagnant wages and more opportunities to exploit the Labour market whilst their own high end taxes are reduced.

 

 

You are Red Robbo and I claim my reward...

['CHARD]

As this topic descends inexorably into barely-disguised political mud-slinging, it may be worth pointing out that Talgo product is clearly able to achieve compliance with European TSIs, so to describe it as flimsy is tabloid sensationalism, likewise reference to 'proper trains' (Class 31s aren't proper, Class 50s are etc etc etc).

 

Also, greater enlightenment prevails these days regarding apprenticeships - it would seem that there is at least some level of recognition within the industry that 'legacy' of investment has to mean human capital, in the form of education and training.