SWR announces class 701 is on the way

[Gwiwer]

Today SWR announced, very quietly, by means of placing posters on stations that class 701 trains will begin to enter service from an unspecified date next year.  

 

One might consider new rolling stock announcements to represent progress.  But is that true in this case?  

 

These trains are similar to the existing classes 345, 700 and 707 in many respects not least of which is the ultra-hard "ironing board" seats all of which are standard class.  For as long as anyone can remember the Waterloo - Reading service has offered first class travel which remains very popular at peak times.  This has been provided in the comfort of 2Bil and 4Cor units, the almost-as-good comfort of 4Cig units and currently by classes 450 and 458.  The majority of Reading trains is worked by pairs of class 458 units and whilst the small number of those which was entirely converted from Gatwick Express class 460 units has no first class seating the rest do.  

 

SWR is introducing a standard fleet for suburban use which will cover everything from Hampton Court and Chessington locals to Guildford, Windsor and Reading lines and Guildford - Ascot services.  One size might not fi all as comfortably as they hope.

 

Reading is thus being reduced in status from the main line it has often been regarded as to simply a suburban London commuter route.  It actually carries significant commuter traffic to and from Reading as well.  

 

The change to standard class only on the Reading line takes place on and from the timetable change on 8th December irrespective of what rolling stock is operating the service.  

 

The current allocation of rolling stock is a little haphazard to the casual observer with Windsor trains worked by a mix of suburban, standard-class-only non-toilet class 707 units and main-line style toilet-equipped two-class 458 units.  At weekends it sees suburban class 455 units also.  The Hounslow loop line trains including those between Waterloo and Weybridge via Hounslow are a mix of 450, 455, 458 and 707 types.  These are advertised as standard class only as is the Windsor service meaning legitimate use can be made of first class seating (where available) by standard class ticket holders.

 

How the good folk of Bracknell and Wokingham, Sunningdale and Ascot take to the news and the new rolling stock remains to be seen.  The reaction of next year's Royal Ascot race-goers when they are told there is no first class accommodation will not be good.  Many travel from across the south of England using first class tickets.  Will those be price-adjusted to account for the change on the final leg of their journey?  Not that some of those folk are in a state to care less even on the way to the races.  In SR days a 12Cor special train was provided for affluent race-goers with all seats fitted with antimacassars and all windows labelled first class.  Suggesting you can indeed fool some of the people all of the time.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Gwiwer

[Darius43]

 

The reaction of next year's Royal Ascot race-goers when they are told there is no first class accommodation will not be good.

A couple of years ago I was heading home to Worthing from Chippenham via London. The FGW HST has pulled in to Reading but was waiting there an awfully long time. This was because a derailment outside Paddington had closed the station Andy nothing was heading into London. Before the announcement was over I was out and rushing to the SW lines platform and jumped on an (at the time) empty train that was heading to Waterloo via Clapham Junction. I had a seat but in no time at all the train was full to heaving.

 

The train was a stopper and I still recall the look of horror on the faces of the homeward bound race goers with their suits and tails and hats and high heels (that was just the blokes) as this rammed train pulled in. Somehow they got on clutching their champagne glasses in one hand and high heels in the other. It was almost enough to make you feel sorry for them.

 

I got home eventually - with hindsight I should have jumped on the Gatwick via Guildford train at Reading but once the train was full ther was no getting off.

 

Cheers

 

D

Edited November 16, 2018 by Darius43

[Southernman46]

Reading is thus being reduced in status from the main line 

 

That fits in with the distinctly 2nd class service now experienced by anybody travelling on the WOE line west of Salisbury ...............

 

Crewkerne - Waterloo in 5 (yes FIVE) 3/4 hours yesterday .................... utter shite SWR, They should be bloody ashamed  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 16, 2018 by Southernman46

[Gwiwer]

That fits in with the distinctly 2nd class service now experienced by anybody travelling on the WOE line west of Salisbury ...............

 

Crewkerne - Waterloo in 5 (yes FIVE) 3/4 hours yesterday .................... utter shite SWR, They should be bloody ashamed  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Were the delays caused by SWR or NR. Most service delays are attributable to the latter with SWR merely being piggy-in-the-middle.

 

I picked up a couple of “feedback” comments today from regulars who have read the posters or learned about the withdrawal of first class on the Reading trains by other means. The gist of the comments was “We’ll see about that - I know people”. Good luck. The deal has already been done. Expect standard class ticket holders to enjoy the bigger, softer blue seats in a couple of weeks time with no recourse.

[Southernman46]

Were the delays caused by SWR or NR. Most service delays are attributable to the latter with SWR merely being piggy-in-the-middle.

It is collectively - SWR seem unable to operationally manage incidents adequately now - they were more interested in turfing people out onto the platform at Salisbury and getting units into Salisbury depot yesterday than getting long suffering suitcase laden passengers into London ............................ This whole short termination business on the WOE is getting worse and yes the trains are getting noticeably shorter too - I'm sure it is nothing to do with First Groups' wish that people travel the more expensive route to / from Exeter. All I heard yesterday was people say "we'll drive in future" - nice result SWR !!!

 

It wouldn't hurt NR to spend some money putting in loops at Dinton, Crewkerne station & re-doubling Gillingham to Templecombe either instead of pouring money down the GWR Electrification drain .............................................

Edited November 16, 2018 by Southernman46

[PaulRhB]

It wouldn't hurt NR to spend some money putting in loops at Dinton, Crewkerne station & re-doubling Gillingham to Templecombe .

It would be cheaper to double track it than put in all the signalling for a loop at Dinton, the cost of the extra signalling would be horrendous too, it’s only a 9 minute section to Tisbury so slowing and getting going again would turn it into a 14-15 minute section.

Yesterday could have been a lot worse at Salisbury as we narrowly avoided a major equipment failure that could have lasted a couple of weeks. Good job we have some really hot S&T techs. It was a hell of a night shift, and no credit will come from the media etc for that.

Edited November 16, 2018 by PaulRhB

[CloggyDog]

I use Waterloo - Reading (or vice versa) once or twice each week, always during the peak and FC is almost always empty or used by folk chancing it on a std piece (or no piece at all...) Very, very rarely does the guard come through and check tickets.

 

On the very odd occasion I've travelled FC (legitimately), I found the FC seats on the 458s to be no better/worse than the std seats.

 

These trains are similar to the existing classes 345, 700 and 707 in many respects not least of which is the ultra-hard "ironing board" seats all of which are standard class.  For as long as anyone can remember the Waterloo - Reading service has offered first class travel which remains very popular at peak times.  

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Very, very rarely does the guard come through and check tickets.

Because very very rarely is a commercial guard rostered on Waterloo - Readings.  There is little point checking tickets if one cannot be sold nor penalty fares issued.  Almost all suburban guards are non-commercial i.e. do not carry ticket machines.

[phil-b259]

It would be cheaper to double track it than put in all the signalling for a loop at Dinton, the cost of the extra signalling would be horrendous too, it’s only a 9 minute section to Tisbury so slowing and getting going again would turn it into a 14-15 minute section.

Yesterday could have been a lot worse at Salisbury as we narrowly avoided a major equipment failure that could have lasted a couple of weeks. Good job we have some really hot S&T techs. It was a hell of a night shift, and no credit will come from the media etc for that.

 

Well done Salisbury S&T, been in similar situations before myself and know how exhausting nights can be when the it all goes wrong.

 

Unfortunately because most of our kit is not visible / easily understandable to the public (or even other departments) then we rarely get any thanks other than local management if your are lucky.

 

Oh and as for a loop at Ditton, it would make more sense to buy back the Down platform at Tisbury and make it a longer dynamic one as per Axminster.

Edited November 16, 2018 by phil-b259

[Southernman46]

, it would make more sense to buy back the Down platform at Tisbury and make it a longer dynamic one as per Axminster.

Ah yes now that WOULD make more sense and probably not that difficult to achieve either ..............

 

This morning ................................... Oh Dear

[DavidB-AU]

 

[PaulRhB]

Interesting that there’s a pantograph on the roof! I assume that’s just a test car as their test track has third and fourth rails. 

[DavidB-AU]

I'm guessing the Aventra is modular and it's relatively easy to adapt them between AC, DC or dual. Just like the Desiro family, which is why there is an obvious pantograph space on the roof of the 444/450.

 

Bombardier has also proposed a 125mph bi-mode version to replace the Turbostars and Voyagers.

 

Cheers

David

[Fat Controller]

25 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Interesting that there’s a pantograph on the roof! I assume that’s just a test car as their test track has third and fourth rails. 

Seems to be policy now to have the roof-well, even if no pantographs or other kit is fitted, so that the ROSCO can find new work for stock if required. The 365s were so fitted when delivered, and that was some time ago now.

[PaulRhB]

Yes it’s been standard to have the well but it’s just a blank plate, not ready for fitting. I was just surprised a fully liveried vehicle had one  I don’t think the Desiros are completely ready either, they don’t carry the other AC/DC conversion gear as standard as it’s just wasted money. 

[4630]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Interesting that there’s a pantograph on the roof! I assume that’s just a test car as their test track has third and fourth rails. 

Reported elsewhere that they will be tested on OHL somewhere on the network to ensure type approval and gain certification.

 

IIRC it’s just the first couple of units that will be pantograph and AC kit fitted for this purpose.  

[PaulRhB]

Yes it’s been standard to have the well but it’s just a blank plate, not ready for fitting. I was just surprised a fully liveried vehicle had one  I don’t think the Desiros are completely ready either, they don’t carry the other AC/DC conversion gear as standard as it’s just wasted money. 

[phil-b259]

11 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes it’s been standard to have the well but it’s just a blank plate, not ready for fitting. I was just surprised a fully liveried vehicle had one  I don’t think the Desiros are completely ready either, they don’t carry the other AC/DC conversion gear as standard as it’s just wasted money. 

 

The key thing is that all the wiring and 'hidden' stuff is in place for conversion so no need to mess round with the insides of the unit as it were.

 

Conversion of modern EMUs from DC to AC is basically a case of bolting a few big bits (e.g. transformer and pantograph) to the undersides / roof of the train, plus modifications to the train software and a few extra switches (the wiring is already in place) installed in the cabs.

Edited November 22, 2019 by phil-b259

[PaulRhB]

It’ll be interesting to see if it leaks there once they remove it  

[Nick C]

On 16/11/2018 at 10:55, Southernman46 said:

 

That fits in with the distinctly 2nd class service now experienced by anybody travelling on the WOE line west of Salisbury ...............

Which is what everyone expected as soon as FirstGroup got their mitts on the franchise...

[phil-b259]

3 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Which is what everyone expected as soon as FirstGroup got their mitts on the franchise...

 

Well, given they won it on the basis of bribing home counties commuters with new trains, plus facilitating the DfTs desire to 'break the Unions' what else did you expect?

[Nick C]

2 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Well, given they won it on the basis of bribing home counties commuters with new trains, plus facilitating the DfTs desire to 'break the Unions' what else did you expect?

I expected exactly what we've got, but then I'm a cynic!

[PaulRhB]

3 minutes ago, Nick C said:

I expected exactly what we've got, but then I'm a cynic!

Or a realist  

[Calidore]

Perhaps not the most important thing, but I think the Aventras are really rather ugly-looking (particularly the 701s).

 

Of more relevance to the actual experience of them in service, something about the interior shots makes them look rather narrow to me. Not sure if it's awkward perspective, or perhaps a high roof making them look narrow, but if they are it'll be a nightmare on the huge percentage of peak services which are crammed standing right through the carriage. The 707s are so wonderfully spacious on the inside this will be a serious step backwards if it turns out to be the case. People can complain about the seats, but realistically the space and ride comfort when standing are much more important to a larger number of people who use them daily on the suburban routes. The 707s do very well on both counts I think.

[DavidB-AU]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes it’s been standard to have the well but it’s just a blank plate, not ready for fitting. I was just surprised a fully liveried vehicle had one  I don’t think the Desiros are completely ready either, they don’t carry the other AC/DC conversion gear as standard as it’s just wasted money. 

 

The Desiros are modular so although they don't carry the conversion gear (apart from the 350/1) it's essentially plug and play.

 

Cheers

David