Lima locos

[rob D2]

Awful things . Ditched the lot as soon as Bachmann , Heljan came along .

 

If you want to Recreate Christmas 1992 , get one if not , save up and get something that won’t frustrate you with its poor performance

[Guest teacupteacup]

Awful things . Ditched the lot as soon as Bachmann , Heljan came along .

 

If you want to Recreate Christmas 1992 , get one if not , save up and get something that won’t frustrate you with its poor performance

Thats very dismissive.  The OP has stated that money is an issue so maybe he doesnt have the funds to spare on more modern alternatives. 

 

Newer loco's aren't always better - a lot of Heljans had pick-up problems, due to the metals used in the wheels attracting dirt very very quickly, the first run of Bach 08's had the pick-ups resting on the wheel treads, picking up dirt very quickly.  Mazak rot has reared its head on Heljan, Hornby and Bachmann, and its starting to become apparent that the factory applied grease on modern models can leading slow running and burnt out motors years down the line - even if ran regularly.

 

Shape wise the were a lot of problems too - 24/25/31/33/37/40/55 etc, along with completely missing prominent detail such as the nose seams on Bachmanns Peaks

 

As has been said, Lima motors can be made to run very smoothly and slowly, especially on DCC, if you take the time to keep wheels clean.  Adding extra pick-ups helps too.

 

Lima arent perfect, but neither are the modern replacements

 

Horses for courses though.  If I had a large tailchaser I would probably use more modern models, but for my shunting style preference, I find Lima (and Hornby) perfectly acceptable

[PatB]

It should be remembered that, for many of limited means, the choice is not between a Horbachjanpol loco and a Lima loco, but between a Lima loco and no loco. As a cheap basis to have a bit of constructive fun with they have their place. And, as teacup points out, modern models aren't exactly free of problems. A noisy, jerky Lima mechanism can be fettled. There's not much you can do about an exploding mazak chassis.

[Il Grifone]

It should be remembered that, for many of limited means, the choice is not between a Horbachjanpol loco and a Lima loco, but between a Lima loco and no loco. As a cheap basis to have a bit of constructive fun with they have their place. And, as teacup points out, modern models aren't exactly free of problems. A noisy, jerky Lima mechanism can be fettled. There's not much you can do about an exploding mazak chassis.

 

Some Lima chassis do suffer from expanding ballast weights, so check before purchase. The weight can be replaced with a chunk of lead of course. (Beware lead is toxic - wash your hands after handling it!)

[APOLLO]

My (extensive) fleet of Lima diesels run very well alongside more modern & brand new stuff. (I'm not too fussed about fine detail - I like too run trains). I've NEVER had a Lima loco fail - all mine were bought back in the late 80's early 90's.

 

This is how I keep them running sweet (or with a growl !!)

 

1. Driving wheels (non pick up side only) / rear bogie pick up wheels - keep clean with VERY FINE emery paper. I do this perhaps every two years or so.

 

2. A very light touch of servisol switch cleaner is then applied to the cleaned wheels. Helps electrical pick up and doesn't seem to affect traction tyres. Just a tiny drop though.

 

3. Check for loose / missing traction tyres and replace. Only occasionally do I need to do this - some locos are still on their originals

    Peters spares sell them, though they are cheaper on ebay   https://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/traction-tyres

 

4. A VERY LIGHT application of lubricant to each centre bearing on the pancake motor, and an equally light application to one gear wheel (it will self distribute).

    I use either electrolube or Eileens Emporium oil in a syringe (NOT WD40)

 

5. Re assemble (about 10 seconds !!) and run.

 

Brit15

Edited November 18, 2018 by APOLLO

[great central]

Awful things . Ditched the lot as soon as Bachmann , Heljan came along .

 

If you want to Recreate Christmas 1992 , get one if not , save up and get something that won’t frustrate you with its poor performance

 

Sorry but with a dismissive attitude like that all I can say is, if you're likely to be at Stafford show next year don't even look at Deepcar

 

All my class 76s, DC kits resin by the way, run on modified Lima Western bogies, with Lima diamond frame pantographs. They have run for around 30 years and 40 shows by now. The Lima motors needing nothing more than cleaning and lubrication from time to time, all bought second hand by the way so no idea how much they'd done before I owned them.

I have a Heljan class 76 bought from the Hattons clearance, not been out of the box yet and unlikely to run at Stafford due to the non functional pantgraphs

What I would suggest to the OP, if he can get to a toy fair/swapmeet in his area, it's well worth doing so as, in general, prices are very reasonable and you can look at the goods before purchase. A word of caution although most of the traders are honest in their dealings there is always the odd wrong 'un. A recent returnee to the hobby came to the club with a loco and controller he'd bought at a swapmeet, the loco had absolutley no chance of running as it stood, filthy wheels and pick ups twisted, even though the trader told him it had been serviced and tested! The cotroller was rather iffy as well being a basic train set Hornby one.

If he has access to a club in his area, they usually have a cross section of members who can help out as well.

[Andrew F]

Anyone remember the Crystal Maze puzzle with the Lima 09 that had to be shunted about through points? I often wondered why it never stalled.

 

Lima loco's can run pretty well if you have a decent DC controller and an electronic track cleaner or Relco type thing wired between controller and track; I wouldn't dismiss them.

[rob D2]

Thats very dismissive.  The OP has stated that money is an issue so maybe he doesnt have the funds to spare on more modern alternatives. 

 

Newer loco's aren't always better - a lot of Heljans had pick-up problems, due to the metals used in the wheels attracting dirt very very quickly, the first run of Bach 08's had the pick-ups resting on the wheel treads, picking up dirt very quickly.  Mazak rot has reared its head on Heljan, Hornby and Bachmann, and its starting to become apparent that the factory applied grease on modern models can leading slow running and burnt out motors years down the line - even if ran regularly.

 

Shape wise the were a lot of problems too - 24/25/31/33/37/40/55 etc, along with completely missing prominent detail such as the nose seams on Bachmanns Peaks

 

As has been said, Lima motors can be made to run very smoothly and slowly, especially on DCC, if you take the time to keep wheels clean.  Adding extra pick-ups helps too.

 

Lima arent perfect, but neither are the modern replacements

 

Horses for courses though.  If I had a large tailchaser I would probably use more modern models, but for my shunting style preference, I find Lima (and Hornby) perfectly acceptable

 

I’m not “ dismissive “, it’s an honest opinion from experience . Without powderpuff or sugar cubes attached. He asked for an opinion ,that’s mine. It’s no more or less valid than any other .

 

If you are going to, say , spend £35 on Lima, wait till you’ve got £70 saved and buy something else.

['CHARD]

Hi all,

Instead of a class 37 why not look at the class 31. There a plenty about and they were used all over the rail network. The Airfix model is in my opinion a good model with reasonable running. Plus it is also quite cheap on Ebay.

 

I strongly advise against this: Airfix 31s are notoriously fickle runners, and in my experience a substantial percentage are actually non-runners.

 

The Lima 09 (the only difference between an 08 and an 09 is the gearing AFAIK) was good in its time and can now be picked up cheaply*. The detail is not nearly as good as the more recent models however.

 

* I paid £10 for my last one.

 

I thought the OP already has a Bachmann 08?  

[Stormbringer]

I have around 40 Lima diesels here. The best are the class 20's. Strong and quiet, I once had 21 coaches (not modern ones) behind one on a club layout with some severe gradients and it didn't miss a beat. The best of the others are my 2 Royal train loco's, they run like a dream at either and of the Royal train.

 

Yes you need to keep an eye on wheel/track cleanliness and motor lubrication, but if you do the Lima loco's will do nicely.

 

I actually have some Bachmann and Heljan loco's here that don't run as well as the Lima ones.

 

At the end of the day you pays your money and takes your choice.

 

Pete

[cravensdmufan]

Horses for courses is right.

 

I'm currently refurbing my Lima Class 156's, which to me still look good with a few tweaks with the paintbrush. Here's a photo showing what improvements I made just by touching in front ends.

 

The only downside is the boxy underframes, but I saw one on an exhibition layout with all the details picked out in paint and it looked brilliant from normal viewing distances. I shall try that on mine.

 

And my units still run beautifully,  I have them DCC fitted with Hattons chips and I have fitted extra pickups on the trailers, the cars being connected with Squires pre-wired micro plug and sockets - really handy they are. I may also fit LED lights as a further enhancement.

 

I simply cannot justify £230 for one Realtrack unit, nice as they are.

 

 

[cravensdmufan]

Fair points, matto.  The controller is critical here, as we are trying to impose a degree of fine control on a very highly geared mechanism which means that the motor is drawing a very low current.  Lima pancakes can, fortunately, get on the move with the merest hint of a volt, they are very free running and once you have ironed out any stiffness or resistance in the drive train.  This, for  D08's information, is spur reduction gears, plastic and prone to picking up crud, but easily sorted.

 

I use a Gaugemaster HH which I swear by; I have had controllers that I've sworn at!  It is a lovely little thing, sitting in your hand as if it's always been there, and completely forgotten when you are using it, as if there is an unseen connection between your mind and the loco, which does what you want it to do.  IMHO there is no higher praise for a controller than this; I can convince myself that I can actually feel when the driving wheels lose grip a bit with my 56xx on a loaded coal train if I give it a bit too much.  This is nonsense of course, but it shows how 'connected' to the loco you are able to to feel that you are.  This sort of imagined feedback is the more needed with the overgeared Lima mechanisms.

 

No connection/satisfied customer.

Agree about the Gaugemster HH.  i used those before converting to DCC and they were brilliant for controlling Lima locos, giving fantastic slow speed control.

 

As well as keeping the wheels clean, light lubrication is the key to smooth running.  A tiny touch of white grease on the the cogs and a tiny drop of oil on each end of the armature shaft will work wonders.  I use Labelle products which I have found to be truly excellent. No connection with the USA manufacturer. 

[The Johnster]

The OP has a Baccy 08, but I'd not particularly recommend the Lima 09 on the basis of anything other than price.  It can, as we've seen, be made to run acceptably well slowly with a good controller, but the cab is full of motor and the coupling rods very overscale.  If you are prepared to accept these drawbacks, the old Hornby Dublo version runs much better! 

 

The steam online models are hopeless below the footplate, though the body mouldings are good; Lima were good at plastic mouldings.  The 0-6-0s, 4F, 94xx, and J50, were the worst, with the crude stamped coupling rods, incorrectly fluted on the 94xx, not even connected by a crankpin to the centre drivers, and no attempt to represent any detail down there.  The final drive cog was visible as well, a problem also apparent on Airfix derived tender drive locos.  Diesel outline models are much better and can be made to run well, if noisily, but this is despite rather than because of their drive trains.  The motor runs at very high speed and must perforce be geared down considerably to achieve even this level of running quality, IIRC through 3 stages all of which induce their own level of friction and power loss.  

 

The 'cheap and nasty' pancake motors are miraculous, though.  Disconnected from the gears, they will run on the tiniest hint of the memory of a voltage having once been there (exaggeration, of course, but not much!).  Their sheer size is a problem in smaller locomotives and diesels with big cabs like Deltics, but they are bombproof reliable!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Awful things . Ditched the lot as soon as Bachmann , Heljan came along .

 

If you want to Recreate Christmas 1992 , get one if not , save up and get something that won’t frustrate you with its poor performance

 Actually worse than Christmas 1992, because any Lima is now at least 14 years old, without manufacturer warranty or support, definitely second hand with who knows what prior history of use or abuse of the mechanism.

 

Those with long term experience of Lima, with the know how gained over years of use to carefully maintain and make the many  necessary improvements to the mechanisms are in a very different place from a newcomer to the hobby. See first post.

 

 

Hi, as a newbie...

 

For a newcomer something of current manufacture seems to me a far better starting point on which to build experience.

[D08]

Anyway, after all that I have bought the Bachmann "saltburn by the sea" brand new. Sorted.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Tim.

[John M Upton]

The Class 101 DMU was a good model for its time, indeed it still stands up well with a little work now.  I had the NSE two car one when it first came out, touched up the paintwork, added a second set of pickups and redid Lima's infamous flaky wire soldering and it went like stink.

[adb968008]

I like my Lima, it’s indestructable, almost.

 

The detailing might not be 2018, but that’s reflected in a price that is still 1991.

 

If you need a bit of quantity to bulk up around quality you cannot go far wrong with Lima modern image stuff, only the 09, 50 and 55 look truly inaccurate if you don’t have a tape measure & magnifying glass in front of the model.

 

I’ve got CD motors to go in my DMUs, and upgraded by 47 fleet to Hornby railroad motors, the rest (20,26,27,31,33,37,40,52, 60,67, 73,87) remain on their original motors, though give how cheap Heljan 26/7 chassis are going i’m Upgrading 26/7/33 to those.

 

It’s only UK modellers that seem to have issue with traction tyres, US, Europe & Asia (including Lima) gets along fine with them, most people probably don’t even know that Hornby’s class 50 uses them, admittedly Hornby’s 1980’s tyres were a bit on the chunky side, which is where the diehards are still coming from, Piko new stuff has tyres that are invisible from the eye and pull ..like a train.

The UK would save themselves much heartache, especially with steam, if they took a look at what 21st century overseas modellers are doing, at the end of the day these aren’t live steam, so it’s just an electric motor struggling to achieve maximum efficiency in the UK due to a self imposed handicap.

Edited November 21, 2018 by adb968008

[The Johnster]

Never, not on my layout as long as I've got a hole where the sun don't shine.  Traction tyres ruin pickup, destroy the loco's ability to run slowly or stop/start without a jerk because of the friction with the track, and spread dirt everywhere; I've only just finished eradicating plastic wheels from my layout in the interests of keeping it clean.  I remove them wherever I find them and do not replace them, to the immediate and noticeable improvement in any loco's performance that was fitted with them.  They are an excuse for manufacturers to get away with designing mechanisms that can't pull proper trains rather than designing in enough ballast weight and distributing it correctly.

 

I'll concede that they improve traction, which is their purpose after all, but my small BLT does not require 60 wagon loaded coal trains to be hauled up gradients.  It does need trains that give some impression of moving like real trains, though.

[Pete the Elaner]

Lima may not be up to the same standards as some modern models, but many of their models are the correct shape, so are a good starting point for detailing, if you want to go down that route.

The other aspects (detail & motor) are easy to work on if you choose to do so & they are robust.

Finer wheels are available from Ultrascale if you can wait for them.

 

There was an earlier comment referring to Lima wheels being unsuitable for code 75 track. This is not universally true. Some Lima models have deep flanges, but others (probably later ones) are fine.

Only 1 of my Mk3s had an issue. The others (I think I have about 8 or 9 somewhere) were fine, but have now been replaced (with alternatives which are flushglazed, although flushglazing & detailing the Lima ones is perfectly possible).

[APOLLO]

The two strongest pulling and smoothest slow running locos I have are both Hornby Silver Seal locos from the 1970's. A Black 5 and a 9F 2-10-0. Both of these locos have tender powered ring field motors with traction tyres on all tender wheels (both sides). Pick up is from the loco (non powered) driving wheels, and two fine wires feed the tender motor - the tenders are permanently connected. Both still run superb after all these years - just new brushes fitted  a few years ago.

 

The later Hornby tender driven models have traction tyres on just one side of the tender - they tend to "crab" and just do not run as well as the silver seal ones. I think Hornby got things very wrong with this later design - the motors are good though. I fit another wire from the loco chassis to the tender motor on these locos which helps the running quite a lot

 

Again I'll say my Lima run very well - on both Gaugemaster Q (4 track non feedback) and 2 Gaugemaster feedback hand helds. They ran even better on my old (now dead) ECM controllers.

 

My best running models ? - Bachmann diesels - they are 100% smooth & powerful (expensive these days though).

 

Brit15

Edited November 21, 2018 by APOLLO

[adb968008]

Never, not on my layout as long as I've got a hole where the sun don't shine. Traction tyres ruin pickup, destroy the loco's ability to run slowly or stop/start without a jerk because of the friction with the track, and spread dirt everywhere;

21 minutes to move 35cm, it has traction tyres, and is moving without a stutter on less than 0.05a at speed 20 on a Gaugemaster handheld.

 

At the end of the video (if you make it that far), you can see how much better it is on the same track as a Hornby class 71, at 21 minutes, the Class 71 which i’d Argue is as good as anything else on UK OO right now... so you don’t die of boredom watching it move, I’ve put a few Easter eggs in there such as people walking and a fast moving Hornby 06.

 

its got nothing to do with traction tyres, and a lot to do with the design and components used.

 

I will add, I’ve had not too far dissimilar from nicely manicured Lima.

Edited November 21, 2018 by adb968008

[The Johnster]

Fair play, impressive.  But it'll still spread crud all over your layout.

[Guest teacupteacup]

Fair play, impressive.  But it'll still spread crud all over your layout.

Which isnt a problem as long as you clean the tracks and run a hoover over the layout occasionally

[adb968008]

Fair play, impressive. But it'll still spread crud all over your layout.

It’s better to deal with the root cause problem, then continually deal with incidents.

Remove crud, there’s none to spread.

 

The track it ran on, has been there 4 years, and without an electronic track cleaner for probably half that, since I moved to HH’s and too many locos running on the D.C. track with a DCC chips in... it’s just a good old fashioned rubber.

Edited November 21, 2018 by adb968008

[crompton 33]

Which isnt a problem as long as you clean the tracks and run a hoover over the layout occasionally

What a class 50