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LMS Beyer-Garratt 2-6-0 0-6-2 in N Gauge from Hattons Originals


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21 minutes ago, grahame said:

wasn't the N B-G announced (November last year) before the Genesis generic OO coaches (October but not sure of year) or perhaps maybe not. But they're certainly getting a big promotional push ATM.

 

FWIW, the N B-G was announced here November 2018, and has generated 4 5 pages of conversation, while Project Genesis was announced October this year and has generated 71 pages (largely hot air, but you get the idea)

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15 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

You could build a layout to accommodate and use your N gauge trains on :P

 

The N gauge market is smaller and it will stagnate without investment, new products and effective promotion. For it to grow it needs greater exposure, promotional support and a decent range of innovative new products (possibly even including the N B-G), and people to build and showcase great quality N gauge layouts. Being a small sector of the overall model railway market, N gauge needs to be more agile, more responsive and quicker to develop and launch new product. And that doesn't exclude N enthusiasts playing their part.

 

 

I am without a layout at the moment with my OO stuff boxed as well.

 

Been agonising over the N gauge stuff - on the one hand I have a lot of it, it is all the modern blue riband or Dapol models and you can do so much more with it - but I am worried about the size versus my eyesight (though I think poor lighting plays a major part in this).  Whilst I was at Warley I did concentrate on the 2mm models and whilst Modbury and Brinklow displayed all that is good about 2mm or N, the others reminded me of my own limitations and why I moved to 4mm.  But yet, I cannot begin to sell the core of my N gauge stuff - I tinker around the peripherals selling older coaches, HST and ER stock but keep the core stock.

 

One think I do know, I don't need to buy any trains at present so I am not much use to Hattons even if I was quite excited by the generic 4 & 6 wheelers.

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17 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

FWIW, the N B-G was announced here November 2018, and has generated 4 5 pages of conversation, while Project Genesis was announced October this year and has generated 71 pages (largely hot air, but you get the idea)

 

Yep, there certainly has. It's indicative of the market size difference and why N can't simply be left un-promoted, un-supported and undeveloped.

 

But as well as all the hot air (as you say) there has been a lot of discussion/whinges about the generic vs prototype issue and Hattons have provided a lot more input such as update CADs, livery drawings and specification details. Although to be fair, AFAIA the LMS B-G has little other choice than all over black as a livery. Nonetheless, I guess some more communication would be welcome.

 

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I think Hatton's may have (fairly) underestimated the work in producing a locomotive in N.   When the B-G was first announced, it was implied or outright stated that the B-G was chosen due to the research already having been done.    N, admittedly, is more of a watchmaker's gauge than OO/HO.   Production strategies used for the larger scale might not apply.   Also, while the aforementioned research already existed, Hatton's had worked with Heljan on the OO B-G, which might mean some of the information might still be with Heljan and in some capacity unavailable.

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4 hours ago, grahame said:

 

For it to grow it needs greater exposure, promotional support and a decent range of innovative new products (possibly even including the N B-G), and people to build and showcase great quality N gauge layouts.

 

 

This.  Grahame has nailed it here.

 

I think that the quality and range of modern N is better than ever - and has no shortage of existing and new manufacturers looking at it -  but to really grow the market/scale we need to see high quality, aspirational layouts at shows to encourage new entrants.  

 

The recent Warley national model railway exhibition at the NEC was busier than I have ever seen it - maybe the Rod Stewart/Model Railway TV show effect - and to grab a share of that success N needs to have showcase layouts that really show what's possible.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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7 hours ago, grahame said:

 

You could build a layout to accommodate and use your N gauge trains on :P

 

The N gauge market is smaller and it will stagnate without investment, new products and effective promotion. For it to grow it needs greater exposure, promotional support and a decent range of innovative new products (possibly even including the N B-G), and people to build and showcase great quality N gauge layouts. Being a small sector of the overall model railway market, N gauge needs to be more agile, more responsive and quicker to develop and launch new product. And that doesn't exclude N enthusiasts playing their part.

 

 

So following on from earlier I’ve got my boxes of N gauge out to consolidate the stock into one large Ikea cardboard package box.

 

Its now I realise how much I have again and usefully I’ve matched some empty boxes with some stock wrapped in bubble wrap.

 

Think Farish and Dapol have done very well from me, you’re right I need a layout (for some of it)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello all,

I am relatively new to this (I mean forums) but couldn't help getting in on the conversation.

I understand what you're all saying about N being a smaller market and needing more publicity and better models to showcase, but I don't wonder if part of it is down to size and eyesight, as you have already touched on. I personally know a few modelers who have switched from N to OO in their old age because they can't see what they're doing at the smaller scale. I'm sure we all aware that railway modelling has an aging fan base and I wonder if this isn't the issue.

 

Also, I have always thought that the appeal of N was it's size. I have recently started developing smaller N Gauge layouts at home in order to showcase the potential of N to make good use of a small space. I just wonder if that isn't a feature that we should be focusing on showcasing at these larger exhibitions as well as excellently detailed and scenic models as you have suggested. 

 

Personally, I don't contribute a huge amount to the N Gauge market because I am a University student and money is, therefore, tight, however, I couldn't resist forking out for one the Hattons Garratts. Personally, I buy a lot second-hand but even in the few years I have been modelling N I have seen a great improvement in the quality and quantity of RTR N models - dare I say, they are as good as OO now? 

 

It is the following points that N advertising/showcasing should focus on:

  • Better use of space than other scales
  • RTR models of equal detail/quality as OO
  • Increasing range

To finish, I have also noticed an increase in the popularity of N over the last few years at the club. A couple of years ago we had 3/4 N gauge members but now we have increased our membership to nearer 10 and we aren't a huge club. 

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In my case, I ordered a Garratt soon after it was announced, when I think the planned delivery date was about now.  I did get the e mail mentioned above and called to check I was still on the list. which was duly confirmed. The lady to whom I spoke thought that mid 2020 was the likely arrival date.  To my mind this is a sort of prestige project for Hatton's  but with lower financial risk as they are (presumably) taking both wholesale and retail margins.

 

In fact, my layout is Japanese N but having enough Japanese stock (and more!) to run it I am now interested in adding a small number of the more unusual prototypes.  So I wouldn't buy an 8F or Black Five, but in the LMS sphere a Michelin railcar would be tempting...

 

 

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19 minutes ago, wasabi said:

In fact, my layout is Japanese N but having enough Japanese stock (and more!) to run it I am now interested in adding a small number of the more unusual prototypes.  So I wouldn't buy an 8F or Black Five, but in the LMS sphere a Michelin railcar would be tempting...

 

 

Well if your Beyer-Garratt is risky, I think you can definitely write off a Michelin Railcar

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On 29/12/2019 at 16:17, woodenhead said:

Well if your Beyer-Garratt is risky, I think you can definitely write off a Michelin Railcar

 

Definitely about risky, what a great looking machine. If it's not been produced in OO theres no way it'll even be considered for N.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In an ad in one of the recent mags (can't recall which one offhand)  the project status still showed it at CAD stage, and from what I was told it will remain there until they have sufficient orders to proceed to tooling. On the plus side, at least it is now visible in their magazine ads to an extent, but it would be nice if even a quarter of a page was devoted to bringing it to people's attention.

 

Roy

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2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Chicken-and-egg situation. On such a difficult project as this, some people will have been wanting to see the end result before committing money to it.

 

You can place an order without committing money - my understanding is no deposit required.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

You can place an order without committing money - my understanding is no deposit required.

 

 

Well, sort of. They don't process the card payment until the item arrives in stock.

 

On that basis, I have just added to the numbers.

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2 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Well, sort of. They don't process the card payment until the item arrives in stock.

 

 

Of course you need to pay for it when it has been produced. I don't think they are planning on giving them away FOC but I guess you could cancel right up until payment is due.

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Hi all,

 

There seems to have been a bit of confusion lately regarding the current status of the N Gauge Beyer Garratt project. 

 

We’re currently at the CAD stage but cannot yet move to tooling before we have sufficient pre-orders to do so.

 

I would advise anyone who has not yet placed a pre-order, but is interested in the project, to place their order as soon as possible. You can see all versions of the Garratt on THIS page.

 

Please note that no money or deposit is taken for any pre-order until the finished item is delivered into stock and is ready to be sent out to you.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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20 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

Hi all,

 

There seems to have been a bit of confusion lately regarding the current status of the N Gauge Beyer Garratt project. 

 

We’re currently at the CAD stage but cannot yet move to tooling before we have sufficient pre-orders to do so.

 

I would advise anyone who has not yet placed a pre-order, but is interested in the project, to place their order as soon as possible. You can see all versions of the Garratt on THIS page.

 

Please note that no money or deposit is taken for any pre-order until the finished item is delivered into stock and is ready to be sent out to you.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave

 

Thank you for interjecting to clarify the position personally. I know a good number of people, myself included, are incredibly excited that Hattons  announced an N Gauge model and I do apologise for being so blunt in what follows: -

 

1) When this model was announced there was no mention of any pre-order threshold needing to be met, and the declared release date advertised (again not conditional) is now almost a year past. I think it is important that Hattons are clear with their customers the basis upon which you are proposing models, and here, until recently it hasn't been.

 

2) How does Hattons plans to gain any traction as far as commitments to the project go when there has been precious little visibility or promotion of it, either at shows or in the modelling press? I was astonished that there was no promotion of it at all at last year at either GETS in MK or Warley given the thousands of people that attend? Inevitably it will leave some people wondering if the lack of investment in promotion reflects a lack of commitment or possibly even a shift in priorities since it was announced? I do appreciate that we are not being asked for money up front, but nonetheless prudent financial planning does require that the sum of money is "ring fenced" and not used for something else, and that may only last so long.

 

Of course I appreciate totally it is nobody's business but Hattons' what priority is given to your projects, it does seem pretty obvious to me that in order to generate interest in something and give it a fair chance you need to visibly promote it.

 

Best wishes

 

Roy

 

 

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On 17/01/2020 at 13:44, Hattons Dave said:

Hi all,

 

There seems to have been a bit of confusion lately regarding the current status of the N Gauge Beyer Garratt project. 

 

We’re currently at the CAD stage but cannot yet move to tooling before we have sufficient pre-orders to do so.

 

I would advise anyone who has not yet placed a pre-order, but is interested in the project, to place their order as soon as possible. You can see all versions of the Garratt on THIS page.

 

Please note that no money or deposit is taken for any pre-order until the finished item is delivered into stock and is ready to be sent out to you.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Dave

Thanks for clarifying the position.

Although I have pre-ordered one, this is the first time I've ever pre-ordered something from you.  It's not something I normally do.  If this project is dependant on a level of pre-orders, there ought to be a comment on the website to make this clear.  Otherwise, there may well be a number of people who look at the Garrett and think "Yes, I'll have one when they're available", but not pre-order because they don't realise that, if they don't, there may not be a product at all.

Dave

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Hello,

 

I also appreciate the appreciate the clarification though it would've been nice to have through another medium be that the website, magazines or even an email to those who have placed pre-orders (not sure of that's possible but it's a suggestion).

 

In the event that you don't reach the necessary number of pre-orders what would happen? 

I'm assuming the project would be called off? And as an interested party, can Hattons provide any more information? For example a potential release date - I know this is very subjective and would be highly vague but even just this year/next year/next decade even?

Also, are you setting a cut-off date for pre-orders or something like that?

 

Mitchell

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On 25/01/2020 at 14:59, Granger said:

 

Also, are you setting a cut-off date for pre-orders or something like that?

 

Without further financial commitment/work on behalf of Hattons (beyond that already expended on CADs) there is no real need to set a pre-order date cut-off and/or call-off the project. As sure as eggs is eggs, without any promotional effort, a set cut-off deadline would come and just drift on by, still without sufficient pre-orders. On the other hand without a deadline date potential customers might not be galvanized to making the effort to pre-order despite that there is no deposit to pre-pay.

 

However, the big issue seems to be making the N gauge community aware of the project, the need to pre-order and that there is no initial financial  outlay to do so.

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35 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Without further financial commitment/work on behalf of Hattons (beyond that already expended on CADs) there is no real need to set a pre-order date cut-off and/or call-off the project. As sure as eggs is eggs, without any promotional effort, a set cut-off deadline would come and just drift on by, still without sufficient pre-orders. On the other hand without a deadline date potential customers might not be galvanized to making the effort to pre-order despite that there is no deposit to pre-pay.

 

However, the big issue seems to be making the N gauge community aware of the project, the need to pre-order and that there is no initial financial  outlay to do so.

Maybe though at present Hattons are quite content to sit on the model like Kernow with the Railmotor and LSWR roadvan.

 

Hattons are dealing with the Gresley Pacifics, the Gresley coaches and the 66.

 

The A3 had some issues to resolve for batch 2 and the 66 seems to have some niggles as well, perhaps Hattons are focussed on the matters in hand and this one, the Garratt, is low on the agenda at the moment.

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9 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Maybe though at present Hattons are quite content to sit on the model like Kernow with the Railmotor and LSWR roadvan.

 

 

Maybe, but it would be quite disingenuous to announce a project (and the only one they have announced in N gauge) and then sit on it without an intension to progress it. And it wouldn't be a very good move in customer relations or corporate profile terms.

 

 

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