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LMS Beyer-Garratt 2-6-0 0-6-2 in N Gauge from Hattons Originals


Hattons Dave
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Dear @Hattons Dave,

 

I would like a Garratt in N Gauge, although it would be a Rule 1 purchase to go with my other ex-LMS steam locos. I haven't pre-ordered as there's been nothing telling me that I needed to. From what I've read I assumed the model was going ahead and all I'd need to do was wait for it to come into stock and place an order.

 

I feel Hattons needs to look at how they're promoting this model if it is to succeed. I don't recall seeing a single advert for it in any of the monthly magazines. I don't believe it's been advertised in the N Gauge Society Journal. By all accounts there was nothing on the Hattons stand at Warley showing that this model was planned; no CAD images, no 3d printed model, nothing. There was no Hattons stand at The International N Gauge Show (TINGS) last year either.

 

The model is not going to sell unless you promote its existance. I suspect that since as you are now no longer able to sell new Farish products that your N Gauge sales have fallen off dramatically; N Gauge modellers will be shopping elsewhere so won't be seeing news items about the Garrett on your home page.

 

It's all very well saying that the model wont happen unless you get more pre-orders, but you're not going to get pre-orders unless people know what you have planned. Please get in touch with Revolution Trains - I'm sure they'll pass on a few words of advice about promoting a steam era model amongst a community of modellers who are reluctant to pre-order something they've not seen.

 

 

Kind Regards.

 

Steven B.

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Hello all,

 

I’ve been reading through some of the recent comments and wanted to address a few things.

 

As with any project we announce and have available to pre-order, we do not ask for customers to pay a deposit or any money up front in order to finance the project.

We do however pay close attention to pre-order levels throughout all of our projects and would typically expect a higher number, to give us the confidence, to move forward at this point.

 

We’re always open to suggestions for new opportunities and methods of promoting our products and I’ll ensure that this is fed back to the Marketing team. In regards to an order deadline, there is currently no set cut-off date for pre-orders. 

 

We will continue to evaluate the project as we move forward and provide updates as we’re able to.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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On 31/01/2020 at 13:45, Hattons Dave said:

We’re always open to suggestions for new opportunities and methods of promoting our products and I’ll ensure that this is fed back to the Marketing team. In regards to an order deadline, there is currently no set cut-off date for pre-orders. 

 

Hi Dave. 

 

Just a couple of observations in response to that if I may. 

 

You have 9 pages of adverts in the latest BRM and the only mention of the Garrett is on the project status update on the last page. That has no additional information, CAD images or anything at all to really draw attention to it. 

 

There is also no mention of it on the home page of your website. The only way to find it on the site is to navigate through to the specific product pages, and the only people who are going to do that are the people who know it's available to order and most of those who know that will have already done so. I imagine you get a fair bit of traffic through the website front page so it seems odd to me that it's not mentioned on there anywhere in an effort to attraction more attention to it. 

 

Cheers, 

 

Tom.  

 

 

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It's also worth pointing out I overheard a person at the Bachmann stand at Model Rail Scotland asking for info on the Garrat they were doing and after a bit of thought the Bachmann person said its not us, think its Hattons.

 

Now I can't remember if N guage was specifically mentioned considering the original Heljan OO ones were Hatton's commissions but the point still stands that advertisment is a mess.

 

 

It really does feel a bit like Hattons have went: announce Garrat in N > preorders a bit low > quietly say on a few places it won't go any further without more orders > don't actually advertise it well > quietly cancel it and use the entire thing as a reason not to bother with N gauge commissions/exclusives.

 

Still think they'd have got much more interest by doing either something much more widely travelled and ubiquitous like a tank engine (even just a new tooling J94/Austerity) or shrink raying some of their OO exclusives (RHTT, Beilhacks etc).

Going for something with such a limited operational area/time in a market as small as N seems foolish.

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Morning all,

 

A few points have been raised regarding the Garratt project and I wanted to try and address them if I could.

 

Why don’t you include the Garratt in your print advertising?

When the N Gauge Garratt project was first announced we did include it in our print advertisements. However, since then we have also announced further projects which now feature in those positions.

 

Why isn’t the Garratt featured on the front page of the website?

The Garratt has appeared on the front page of the website several times. All projects and products featured on our home page are “live”, and will move up the list if there has been news or developments associated with the project. Due to the sheer amount of news and information coming out regarding projects from various manufacturers it means that things can quickly be pushed off the front page. 

 

Better advertising could improve awareness and reduce confusion about the project.

This has been our first attempt at marketing an exclusive N Gauge locomotive and we will take on board the feedback regarding our advertisement of this project.

 

A different project would have been a better decision for a first N Gauge project.

We value feedback from our customers and the market in general, and do take this into consideration when selecting projects. To date, the OO Gauge Beyer-Garratt has been one of our most popular projects which was a large factor in selecting the N Gauge version. 

We invite people to send their suggestions to us via ideas@hattons.co.uk which helps us to spot trends.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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Top of the list has to be a Class 28. D5705 is currently being restored at the ELR, not far from Hattons. Heljan have already done the OO version.

 

I'm sure that Farish will offer updated Peaks & eventually the Crab.

 

Others include...Unrebuilt Patriot, LNER 2-8-0, BR Standard 75xxx, G2 (although the Union Mills version is pretty good), LMS 4-4-0/Compound.

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I don't think encouraging Hattons to ditch their N gauge B-G project, insisting the selection is wrong and starting a confusing wish list of alternatives (in the B-G thread) is very helpful to Hattons. Dave did say to send suggestions direct to them rather than list them here. 

 

They have already undertaken some development work (research, CADs, etc.,) and even a little promotional activity, so we are where we are with it. Changing horses would mean starting again and possibly going to the back of the queue.

 

It might not be the best choice in some people's eyes but I'd have thought the best thing would be to get behind it, pre-order (if of interest) and encourage Hattons to get the message out to a wider audience. I don't recall the NGS Journal featuring the project recently. Perhaps some traction (and possible advertising) could be gained there.

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5 hours ago, Littlethorpe said:

I really hope that the Garratt goes ahead. I also think that it will sell well but I doubt that many people will pre-order (I have). Let's hope that Hattons are bold enough to continue with the project.

 

Completely agree. The OO gauge version has always been a stand-out model. The garratt has always been one of the main models that was missing from the RTR N gauge market. 

 

Though I can understand that people might want different locomotives modelled we can't all have our wishlist produced RTR on a mass scale. That's where scratch- and kit-building comes in.

Furtgermore, whilst I can understand that not everyone agrees with the project or with the choice of prototype, but I think we will all appreciate it when it appears on respective club, exhibition and personal layouts. For these reasons I hope the project is advanced with haste very soon. I'm sure Hattons know what they're doing with marketing, pre-orders, etc. and you can hardly blame them for not wanting to proceed if they don't think its financially safe. 

 

Mitchell

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Hello,

 

On 27/02/2020 at 11:03, Hattons Dave said:

When the N Gauge Garratt project was first announced we did include it in our print advertisements. However, since then we have also announced further projects which now feature in those positions.

 

this is how I learned about that project.

 

Initially, I wanted to wait with my preorder until the final models are out - mostly because I was not sure which version(s) I wanted to have. But after the last update I placed my preorders and now I really, really, really hope that this model will be produced. Because, otherwise, I would have to continue the very unfinished kit I purchased years ago - and I do not really have the motivation to do so...

 

Rico

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  • 3 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

In the (recent?) issue of the BRM I saw the garratt advertised on the Hattons advertisement page.

 

I count this as good news, maybe they are quite close to the needed number of pre-orders. If necessary, I would order a third one, but only if really necessary.

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I've finally given in and ordered an LMS livery Garratt. 

 

It will have to be a massively rule one loco ("post-war motive power shortages meant that on a very few occasions an LMS Garratt worked north of York to Darlington") but I've decided that N gauge rtr steam needs all the support it can get.  But after this Hattons, please:  an LNER L1, or a V1/V3, or a J72, or a B16.... (well, I can dream!)

 

Richard T

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On 19/07/2020 at 11:00, -RF- said:

In the (recent?) issue of the BRM I saw the garratt advertised on the Hattons advertisement page.

 

I count this as good news, maybe they are quite close to the needed number of pre-orders. If necessary, I would order a third one, but only if really necessary.

 

It's also in the Hattons ad in the current issue of Railway Modeller. Fingers crossed.

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I had one pre-ordered when the original delivery date was January 2020 but have cancelled this because if it comes out at the end of this year or even into 2021 then it is beyond my current 'budgetary horizon' and it would not be fair on Hattons to have to turn round in January and say that my wife ate all the money over Christmas.  It would be nice to have because I have seen the type working in Africa and they are interesting locos but commitments that far ahead can be difficult, especially when now retired.

[IPW] 

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I have stuck with this and will continue to keep money to one side until we have more clarity (expressing an interest may not cost but it still has to be budgeted for!) but an update from "Hattons Dave" would be helpful. I appreciate other projects like the 66 appear to be taking up an awful lot of time of late, so even the briefest of responses would be appreciated.

 

Roy

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I ordered an LMS one as I already have two BR ones from the kits.  I ordered principally because finally someone had gone and had a go at a special for the N gauge market.  Hatton's used to be - for over 20 years - my go to place for British N from Australia but once they stopped selling Farish, I stopped buying.  I don't go on the Hatton's page often as there is no reason to - other than the Garratt.  So some information would be handy.  My initial understanding was I could have had my kids give it to me last Christmas - looking like it may not be here by Christmas 2021.

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20 hours ago, Sithlord75 said:

I ordered an LMS one as I already have two BR ones from the kits.  I ordered principally because finally someone had gone and had a go at a special for the N gauge market.  Hatton's used to be - for over 20 years - my go to place for British N from Australia but once they stopped selling Farish, I stopped buying.  I don't go on the Hatton's page often as there is no reason to - other than the Garratt.  So some information would be handy.  My initial understanding was I could have had my kids give it to me last Christmas - looking like it may not be here by Christmas 2021.

 

Same here. I would frequently go to Hattons for my N Gauge needs as they were competitive and reliable, and also guaranteed pre order prices which to be fair is difficult for anyone to offer now. With Farish being the market leader by some margin and no longer stocked it must have had a serious impact on their N sales so maybe that is why, with less N modellers going to Hattons takeup is slower and it is no longer a priority. If still at CAD stage, even were tooling to start imminently Dec 2021 sounds realistic, but I think we might have a much longer wait if it appears at all. 

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11 hours ago, Roy L S said:

 

I would frequently go to Hattons for my N Gauge needs as they were competitive and reliable, and also guaranteed pre order prices which to be fair is difficult for anyone to offer now. 

 

Watch out for that guarantee of pre order prices. Several years ago Hattons changed their terms to say that they would not do this even for existing preorders. 

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15 hours ago, Kris said:

 

Watch out for that guarantee of pre order prices. Several years ago Hattons changed their terms to say that they would not do this even for existing preorders. 

 

I know Kris, it was one of the things that made Hattons less of a "go to " place for me and many others, albeit with so many variables and such long lead-times it must have become virtually impossible. The lack of Farish has since killed off any purchasing I might have done from Hattons, I now go to my local model shop mostly or for bulk buys of track go to the Track Shack.

 

Regards

 

Roy

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Hattons,

 

I am really tempted to buy this used, kit-built Garratt you put online today just so I then can tell you how fast it got sold and that therefore the demand for your models is so high you should really, really give us an update on the project.

 

But then again I have no idea what to do with the model when the Hattons Garratts arrive...

 

Kind Regards,

Rico

 

Aunt Edith says it took one and a half day to get it sold.

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Hi all,
 

Thanks for the interest and queries RE the Garratt. As some of you have seen we're featuring the model prominently in our marketing currently.
 

We're still awaiting additional pre-orders before the project can progress however we are watching the numbers closely on this.
 

Cheers,
 

Dave

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