Foulounoux Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Removing this from the state of the U.K. Thread The Limoges Angouleme route remains oou and has now even made Le Monde The original Le Monde article is behind a registration but has been reported separately in a French Railway Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/1572451196322528/posts/2263573447210296/ Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Very interesting Colin, thank you. It puts a different perspective on the problem. I wonder how far they will get with having 120m euros transferred from a capital budget (the barely likely Saintes electrification scheme) to what is in effect a maintenance cost, to re-instate the Limoges route? It will require a degree of flexibility of thinking and accounting that I have rarely seen in France, and even less in the UK (outside the personal accounts of certain company directors)..... The real answer must surely come from central govt directing SNCF Reseau to get on with it (having declared they are now likely to write off almost all of their existing debt)? I am surprised the author of this article does not even broach that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foulounoux Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Mike I think the other problem is that it is quite feasible to have a replacement bus service especially now the RN141 is dual for most of the route I could see a series of buses some dealing with local connections Limoges -St Junien St Junien - Roumazieres And a faster Limoges-Roumazieres-Chassenuil-La Rochefocauld-Angouleme service The loading on the route is that low that coaches maybe seen as the most effective option The precedent it would set though maybe too much for the region to accept Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Mike I think the other problem is that it is quite feasible to have a replacement bus service especially now the RN141 is dual for most of the route I could see a series of buses some dealing with local connections Limoges -St Junien St Junien - Roumazieres And a faster Limoges-Roumazieres-Chassenuil-La Rochefocauld-Angouleme service The loading on the route is that low that coaches maybe seen as the most effective option The precedent it would set though maybe too much for the region to accept Colin I would have agreed with the likelihood of bus substitution if the two Departements had not been merged into the Noveau Aquitaine region (much the same happened to my local line when I lived in the Creuse, over 6 years ago, but then RFF upgraded the entire secondary line), as they could have blamed each other. But now that Aquitaine has total responsibility (and presumably funding, if not now then soon) they will need a better excuse. Low patronage does not avoid the fact that the vast bulk of wear and tear will be down to the heavy freight services that (should) use the line - I think at least two private sidings still have access at one end? Thus Track Access charges will fall even more heavily on to the freight operations, something which SNCF Reseau has been told to cut, in view of the impending Open Access regime due in 2020. You may be right about the bridge replacement delaying any further work, but whether this is a convenient excuse to delay any decision, or a realistic re-programming of the remaining works, remains to be seen. Given past shenanigans, I would not bet the farm on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 It’s a sad fact that the SNCF appear to be running these lines down. You look at how the TER is funded and the fact that they are rewarded for providing the lowest cost service and you can see why bus services are proving more popular in the country. I have also read in a number of places that the new government organisation is not pro rail. To me that reads as if they will not fund improvements to these rural lines. Unless central government steps in and recognises the value ahead of the cost I don’t see many of these lightly used lines being kept if the cost of them remaining open outweighs their current use. I hope the situation changes but we will have to wait and see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 It’s a sad fact that the SNCF appear to be running these lines down. You look at how the TER is funded and the fact that they are rewarded for providing the lowest cost service and you can see why bus services are proving more popular in the country. I have also read in a number of places that the new government organisation is not pro rail. To me that reads as if they will not fund improvements to these rural lines. Unless central government steps in and recognises the value ahead of the cost I don’t see many of these lightly used lines being kept if the cost of them remaining open outweighs their current use. I hope the situation changes but we will have to wait and see. That has all been true, although I think there is wide variety in the new Regions' enthusiasm for rail. For example, many of them have now funded massive replacement programmes for new DMU's/EMU's, continuing the orders already placed under the previous regime. The Inter-Regionals remain a battle ground for funding responsibility, and the State has picked up the bill for the moment, after some major cuts to through services. But the major battle ground is between the Regions, who want to be able to use someone other than SNCF to maintain/renew local routes (which they believe will be a lot cheaper and predictable) and SNCF Reseau who insist that common standards can only be applied by them (and don't want to lose the track access income). The govt has put off, yet again (unless I have missed something recently) making a decision about this, and it may help to explain why lines like Limoges-Angouleme remain in limbo. These decisions will be needed soon, as Open Access is supposed to kick in from 2020, after several false starts on trials, when private passenger companies will not put up with this kind of messing about, much as private freight companies are kicking up now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 It should be noted that many of the bus companies are wholly or partially owned by SNCF via various subsidiaries, so SNCF gets revenue from this side of its operations with considerably less spending on infrastructure and other expenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foulounoux Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) Charente Libre today Not good http://www.charentelibre.fr/2018/12/13/un-heurtoir-en-travers-de-la-ligne-sncf-angouleme-limoges,3358683.php Use grosse soixantaine d'élus de Charente limousine et de Haute-Vienne se sont retrouvés ce jeudi matin en gare de Saillat-Chassenon, où des traverses en croix barrent la voie ferroviaire. Signe pour eux de" la mort annoncée" de la ligne SNCF Angoulême - Limoges. Edited December 13, 2018 by Foulounoux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Charente Libre today Not good http://www.charentelibre.fr/2018/12/13/un-heurtoir-en-travers-de-la-ligne-sncf-angouleme-limoges,3358683.php Use grosse soixantaine d'élus de Charente limousine et de Haute-Vienne se sont retrouvés ce jeudi matin en gare de Saillat-Chassenon, où des traverses en croix barrent la voie ferroviaire. Signe pour eux de" la mort annoncée" de la ligne SNCF Angoulême - Limoges. I am not clear why the placing of rails across a line which will presumably be under blockade when (or if) they do complete the works to re-instate the line, is being interpreted as such a "final" act? How is it different from the placing of sleepers across the line during T3's in the UK? I have seen lines closed before that did not have this kind of barricade placed at the ends, so its significance is unclear. I also note that no response appears to have been sought from SNCF by the news site. Have I read it right when they say that SNCF had said, just three weeks ago, that they would meet them again in January/February to talk about what works were being planned? Smacks a little of Gilets Jaunes opportunism to me? The French Transport Minister has announced an extra 5 billion euros annual fund for routes just like this (plus the cancellation of almost all of SNCF's debt announced previously), so it all seems a bit previous. We shall see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted February 3, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2019 I do hope that they get this sorted soon. Myself and a friend are wanting to spend a day doing the triangle of lines from our local station (Ruffec) to Angouleme, Limoges and Poitiers then back to Ruffec. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Off topic but this has been up forsale for more than 2 years, first appeared in Railnews back in Nov 2016 . When I went for week nearby the TGV's still ran past the place but that was obviously coming to an end. http://www.frenchestateagents.com/french-property-for-sale/view/82959FWE86/house-for-sale-in-st-saviol-vienne-poitou-charentes-france Interestingly the Railnews ad was a private sale at £39k, time for a really cheeky offer? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 On 13/02/2019 at 21:33, w124bob said: Off topic but this has been up forsale for more than 2 years, first appeared in Railnews back in Nov 2016 . When I went for week nearby the TGV's still ran past the place but that was obviously coming to an end. http://www.frenchestateagents.com/french-property-for-sale/view/82959FWE86/house-for-sale-in-st-saviol-vienne-poitou-charentes-france Interestingly the Railnews ad was a private sale at £39k, time for a really cheeky offer? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The market here is all over the place. It is normal here to make an offer at 90% of the asking price. Some agents report higher sales than average (many Brits trying to beat the Brexit deadline), others report a suppressed market. I know St Saviol a bit, having driven that road many times over the past six years. Decent area but weather is a little variable. A lot of Brits already there, especially in neighbouring towns/villages, because prices are significantly cheaper than in neighbouring Charente Maritime (and there is a reason for that). Locally here, about 40Km from that location, asking prices have held over the past several years, but of course, few people know what the eventual selling prices have been. This particular house, being an old crossing keeper's cottage, should attract a premium, and has been renovated well (if the pics don't lie), but it has no CH, which is a drawback there (wood prices have doubled in the last 10 years), and nothing is mentioned about the sewerage - check that, as otherwise you could end up with a 8,000 euros extra bill within 12 months (theoretically, although often not enforced). It is a small floor surface area, no pics of any "bathroom", and I doubt would be suitable for more than a holiday home, unless you are happy with a small house, but the garden looks large for a holiday home. Most "homers" end up paying someone to tend their gardens, if of this size, to avoid spending most of their holiday putting it right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted February 15, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2019 Agree with Mike. I don't know the area but it is probably significantly over-priced. There are a lot of cheap properties around in France - mainly small, often rather isolated and generally in areas not wanted by the local populace - poor services, few jobs, poor location etc.. OTOH there are many properties that are far from cheap and well overpriced in areas that are holiday magnets - Provence immediately springs to mind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted February 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2019 From watching sales in our village (about 5 miles from Mike) what often seems to happen is that properties are listed in different platforms at different prices. One near us has only sold after being dropped by about 30%. Others which are not being dropped, mainly by expats, are not selling. It is a strange market at the moment. I certainly haven't found a French equivalent of Zoopla to find out what the actual sale price is. Jamie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samkiller42 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I've not personally used this line, i do use the Limoges - Poitiers line as my Mum lives 20mins from Bellac, So i sincerely hope that line doesn't suffer the same fate. Sam 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted April 3, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2019 After a day's trainspotting at Angouleme my mate and I stumbled across 2 lines of withdrawn locos outside a scrapyard just north of Angouleme. Some exploring revealed that this is a steeply graded spur off the Limoges line about a mile north of the station. I managed to get this shot of the line from a bridge we went over. It obviously hasn't been used for a while. The scrapyard lead is off to the right. I have no idea what the old line to the left served. From Google Earth there is a rail served industrial estate just south of where we were, also accessed off the Limoges line. The scrapyard is right by a big Leclerc's and the withdrawn locos are next to their click and collect unit. Jamie 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Just got back from that area, a mate lives within a spit of the line near Chasseneuil. His local missive from his Mairie gives the line disruption as being due to a new bridge works for the N147 dualling. Certainly, areas I saw have new ballast and some renewed level crossings 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2019 I've heard from a mate who lives in Charente that some funding for the bridge has been agreed but as far as he knows it will only allow lightweight trains to be used and no provision for freight. Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foulounoux Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 The RN141 work is at Roumazieres needs a rail over road bridge we were supposed to be over in July but had to cancel due to wife being critically ill so I haven't been to see how far they have got with it but I would that was funded as part of the project i cant think where else there needs to be a bridge. The one at Chassenuil is already there and I thought part of the existing dual carriageway colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2019 From what my friend has said it us the bridge on the Roumaziers bypass that has caused the problem. I can't remember all the details but as far as I know Roumaziers campaigned hard for the bypass but the fundi g, when it cam, didn't contain fundi g for the rail bridge. The various fu ding bodies have been arguing ever since. SNCF obviously want to close the line. So the bus substitutions have continued. Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 According to this report, last month, construction of the rail bridge is about to start. It says the whole scheme was (further) delayed by problems with compulsory purchase for the by-pass, and is now "officially" 8 months late. Although other reports suggest the real delay is a whole lot more than that, since the original plans were published. https://www.charentelibre.fr/2019/06/05/deviation-de-la-rn141-les-travaux-du-pont-rail-avancent-a-grand-pas,3440991.php 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I'm visiting the family this week (who live in Grand Madieu). We visited the Gond Pontouvre retail park (mainly because there's a very good beer warehouse there). Infer scrap merchants are still taking in locomotives from SNCF, there were 2 rows awaiting disposal , mainly Y type shunters although there were some BB63500s and 2 BB67400s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Roumazieres is where I meant, sorry . As for Gond Pontoeuvre, a zone commerciale on a 1 in 5 slope? Weird. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) I went to Limoges for a steam outing to Eyemoutier yesterday and drove through Roumaziers and drove past the works to build the bypass. My colleague Andy was able to snatch a photo of the works on our way home, not brilliant but it does show, what's happening. Not brilliant as we were on the wrong side of the road for the best viewpoint and in heavy traffic and Andy had never used my camera before. However you can see the bypass in the bottom of the cutting. The railway is roughly parallel and just south of the road here. Both abutments for the new bridge are very visible and nearly full height. The crane is beside one of the piers. I would hope that we will be able to ride the route by the end of next year. Andy lives in Department 16 (Charente) and gets more local news about the area than I do. The main fear is that the bridge will be too lightly constructed to carry freight. However there is still work going on on the line. Before our train trip we went trainspotting and saw this work heading up the steep hill out of Limoges towards Angouleme, hauled by two class 67400's. So at least the line can carry loco hauled trains. Jamie Edited August 22, 2019 by jamie92208 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I'm not sure why people believe that SNCF want to close the line. In several places level crossings have been renewed and reballasting is also in evidence. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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