Non-GWR branch lines

[mdvle]

So we have had 2 good threads about somewhat typical and non-typical GWR branchline layout designs.

 

For someone not familiar with the other railways, what would be good examples to go wandering around the old maps to look at?

[Nearholmer]

It would be good to get the strange ones on the table, so I propose first Heath Park Halt, a seriously pointless BLT. http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/heath_park_halt/

 

And, Dyserth http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/d/dyserth/

Edited November 20, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Oldddudders]

So we have had 2 good threads about somewhat typical and non-typical GWR branchline layout designs.

 

For someone not familiar with the other railways, what would be good examples to go wandering around the old maps to look at?

Cue personal favourites on all sides! As a Southern sort of cove, I would suggest Okehampton to Bude and Padstow could be quite interesting, with very substantial seasonal traffic. Or, on the Brighton part of the Southern, Pulborough-Midhurst-Chichester, which includes a super deluxe station at Singleton. And Eridge to Hailsham, aka the Cuckoo Line. Finally, today’s excellent Bluebell Line is just part of the former East Grinstead to Lewes route.

[mdvle]

Cue personal favourites on all sides! 

 

A natural consequence, but not necessarily a bad thing.

 

My preference would have been Brixham having spent a couple of years in Paignton, but its curve makes it take up too much space and for me at least straightening it out wouldn't work - perhaps the curse of being too familiar with the prototype area given it was already long gone.

 

I could look elsewhere for GWR, and certainly Wallingford looks attractive, but if looking elsewhere then thought may as well consider the other parts of the country and could be of help for anyone else looking for something reasonably modellable on a small(ish) shelf.

 

So far have only looked at Dyserth but it does have some appeal.  It's in a cutting and has a convenient bridge for the fiddle yard.  While it is unlikely to have had multiple locos at anyone time that isn't much issue for a personal layout but the use of a railmotor means there would also have been a separate goods loco of some sort.   And who knows, if Rails is successful with their NER autocar and with Kernow doing the Steam Railmotor, maybe we will see a variety of these unique units to use.

[Zomboid]

Ongar was (and is) a lovely station, and had a lot of the model clichés. The engine shed was in an unusual location though, being on a loop next to the run round.

 

Pick the right period and you can run steam freight and electric tube trains next to each other on a pretty traditional BLT.

[TonyMay]

Ongar was (and is) a lovely station, and had a lot of the model clichés. The engine shed was in an unusual location though, being on a loop next to the run round.

 

Pick the right period and you can run steam freight and electric tube trains next to each other on a pretty traditional BLT.

 

Did it have a bus on a bridge?

[Steamport Southport]

The Holmfirth Branch. Just to prove that not all branchlines were sleepy rural lines with a couple of trains a day. It would make a good model and I think there was one a few years back.

 

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/holmfirth_branch/index.shtml

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/holmfirth/index.shtml

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Theheretic]

A favorite of mine is the LNWR/LMS Delph branch 1851 - 1955 with the adjacent Bailey Mill.

[Zomboid]

Did it have a bus on a bridge?

There's a charming little viaduct just after the first set of points, rather than a bridge over the railway. A different kind of cliché.

[DCB]

Other railways apart from the GWR had branch lines but by and large they were pretty boring. Lyme Regis on the Southern only saw 3 engines in about 10 years and Wenford Bridge only 3 engines in about 80 years.  SR Ilfacombe and Torrington are interesting, Torrington as it was an end on junction with the line to Halwill Junction so trains terminated there, and Ilfacombe as SR Pacifics were limited to 3 coaches unassisted, had a Turntable and very heavy summer saturday passenger traffic, like Minehead on steroids.

Nalisworth and Oxenhope(?) Midland KWVR are good track plans for your typical short fat BLT baseboard, with goods beside the platforms.

Many branches were worked by one engine and are pretty boring to operate prototypically and look pretty odd when not operated prototypically, and more often than not  once you get away from GWR and Southern that loco is not available RTR, and if it is the coaches aren't. Which is probably why GWR branches are popular, take a shedload of cash into Yournearest Model Centre and come out with everything you need to build anywhere GWR.    Try that with the Dornoch branch (HR) and you have a months of scratch building ahead of you.

[Nearholmer]

“Other railways apart from the GWR had branch lines but by and large they were pretty boring. “

 

Depends hugely on what makes a thing “not boring” in the opinion of any particular individual, and it is statement that is equally true, or untrue, of GWR branches.

 

Quite a few people seem to value quirkiness over operating intensity, with many pursuing the quirk-bug to Light Railway ends, which gives plenty of choice. I recommend Wingham (Canterbury Road) if that is what you’re after.

 

Or, you could choose the very first branch-line in the world (allegedly), Aylesbury LNWR. There is a very good model of it already, but I’ve often thought that a good, compact layout could be made of it in early condition, 1840s or 1850s.

 

Newport Pagnell, also modelled at least once, was a very quirky terminus, built partly on the site of a canal basin, and I think the typical locos might be available r-t- r.

 

Stanmore Village LNWR was an exceedingly pretty station, very ‘model railway’.

 

The complex of lines that centred on Watford Junction, the ‘local’ side of which was a busy little Minories, contains a lot of interest.

 

And that’s just a quick trip along the first 50 miles of the WCML.

 

The list goes on, and although few outside urban areas were buzzing with passenger trains, many were interesting from one viewpoint or another.

[mdvle]

Other railways apart from the GWR had branch lines but by and large they were pretty boring.

Well, are they boring because they were boring, or they boring because they haven't been explored very well, or because we have become conditioned to the "Ashburton GWR" style?

 

I haven't gone through all the suggestions yet, which should be just a small fraction of the possibles, but at least superficially there are some interesting possibilities so far.

 

 

Lyme Regis on the Southern only saw 3 engines in about 10 years

Yet all the frothing when first one, then a second Adams Radial was announced because the Lyme Regis line became practical would suggest not everyone is interested in a line that saw 10+ engines.

 

 

and Wenford Bridge only 3 engines in about 80 years.  SR Ilfacombe and Torrington are interesting, Torrington as it was an end on junction with the line to Halwill Junction so trains terminated there, and Ilfacombe as SR Pacifics were limited to 3 coaches unassisted, had a Turntable and very heavy summer saturday passenger traffic, like Minehead on steroids.

Nalisworth and Oxenhope(?) Midland KWVR are good track plans for your typical short fat BLT baseboard, with goods beside the platforms.

 

 Look forward to checking these out along with the other suggestions so far.

 

Many branches were worked by one engine and are pretty boring to operate prototypically and look pretty odd when not operated prototypically,

 

This may be true for you, but not the hobby in general.

 

I think the first issue for most of us is that we seriously over-estimate just how much time we will actually devote to the layout (yes, there are exceptions, those people on here and elsewhere who seem to both dedicate a substantial amount of time and have the skills that they are serial layout builders, but they are the exception).

 

Between other hobbies and other aspects of life many/most of us are lucky to get a couple of hours a week and in that time frame a smaller, simpler layout that provides 30 to 60 minutes of operation at a time can be more than enjoyable.

 

In my case my rethinking came about from this blog - http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s/  - where it is a relatively simple, one engine at a time layout but by running trains at the slower, prototypical speed not only can he have an enjoyable session running his train but it has so far given him around 10 years of enjoyment building it.  You could shrink it to HO, cut off the smaller extra station, and still have a very enjoyable layout in 10' that would still take about the same amount of time given that he still isn't finished.

 

and more often than not  once you get away from GWR and Southern that loco is not available RTR, and if it is the coaches aren't. Which is probably why GWR branches are popular, take a shedload of cash into Yournearest Model Centre and come out with everything you need to build anywhere GWR.    Try that with the Dornoch branch (HR) and you have a months of scratch building ahead of you.

But that is a bit of a chicken/egg situation that is rightly changing.

 

It is a very exciting time, with Scottish locos finally starting to appear and other items that 10 years ago would have been a unlikely dream.  I mean, other than Stationmaster who would have thought the NER electric autocar would be announced given it wasn't even in the poll.

[tractionman]

A favorite of mine is the LNWR/LMS Delph branch 1851 - 1955 with the adjacent Bailey Mill.

 

I've been looking at the MR/LMS branch to Barnoldswick:

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/barnoldswick/

 

https://goo.gl/images/Wz443b

 

and it looks feasible in a 10' by 2' layout:

 

 

I have the boards, just need to make a start...!

 

all the best,

 

Keith

[Steamport Southport]

 

Many branches were worked by one engine and are pretty boring to operate prototypically and look pretty odd when not operated prototypically, and more often than not  once you get away from GWR and Southern that loco is not available RTR, and if it is the coaches aren't. Which is probably why GWR branches are popular, take a shedload of cash into Yournearest Model Centre and come out with everything you need to build anywhere GWR.    Try that with the Dornoch branch (HR) and you have a months of scratch building ahead of you.

 

That might have been correct thirty or forty years ago but it certainly isn't now. In fact it's the GWR that is the poor relation now.

 

LMS 

 

Fowler 4P 2-6-4T

Stanier 4P 2-6-4T

Fairbairn 4P 2-6-4T all three common on branch lines in the North. In fact there is at least one in the link to Holmfirth in my previous post.

 

Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T

L&YR 2-4-2T

LNWR Coal Tank 0-6-2T

MR 1F 0-6-0T

Fowler 3F 0-6-0T

Deeley 3F 0-6-0

Fowler 4F 0-6-0 common on the KWVR

Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0

 

LNER V1/V3 2-6-2T

LNER J70 0-6-0T (Wisbech branch)

LNER J11 0-6-0

LNER J15 0-6-0

LNER J36 0-6-0

LNER D16 4-4-0 some relegated to branch line duties in East Anglia near the end of their lives.

 

 

Plus announcements of 

 

MR 1P 0-4-4T

CR 2F 0-6-0

NER G5 0-4-4T

GER N7 0-6-2T

NER Petrol Railcar

 

There are also sets of non corridor LMS, LNER Gresley and Thompson carriages. There are no suitable GWR carriages available apart from forty year old Airfix (now Hornby) models of the Autotrailer and B Set. The Bachmann Autotrailer is BR only.

 

If you model the BR era then you can add the BR Standard Tanks and DMUs.

 

 

Dornoch Branch will be easy when Model Rail release the GWR 16XXs.

 

 

Jason

Edited November 21, 2018 by Steamport Southport

[The Johnster]

I've been looking at the MR/LMS branch to Barnoldswick:

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/barnoldswick/

 

https://goo.gl/images/Wz443b

 

and it looks feasible in a 10' by 2' layout:

 

Barnoldswick plan with OS.jpg

 

I have the boards, just need to make a start...!

 

all the best,

 

Keith

 

You just know from the names that Fern Lea Avenue is a better address than Railway Street!

[88D]

How about Windermere? Nice summer Saturday expresses as well.

[The Johnster]

Probably fair to say that most GW branches, especially the 'modellable' rural ones, were pretty boring in terms of railway action as well; it is the nature of the beast that light traffic does not require many trains, and those that do turn up will often be push-pull auto types that do not even give the fun of running around.  In they come, one imagines the doors slamming and few parcels being unloaded while the guard changes the lamp around, and out they go.  Go over the pub for a few hours to avoid the boredom, and it might happen again, or the same loco will turn up to bother the wagons a bit.  Nothing happens after midday on Saturday until Monday morning.  The cat snoozes and life goes bucolically on.  It's more fun watching a Fiat rust!  

 

And the same goes for other railways's branches as well; as a sweeping generalisation, the prettier the duller.  

 

I have to agree with Steamport's analysis of the RTR situation re GW branches as well.  No 1854 though there is a not very good 2721, no 44xx, no 54xx, no 16xx, no 517, no Metro, no non-gangwayed stock beyond a very dated B set, more suitable for main line locals anyway, no pre A28 auto trailer, no decent 5 plank open, but that goes for main line layouts as well.  Diesel railcar parcels units were very much main line beasts.  The LMS, Southern, and LNER are much better served in terms of passenger stock, and the pre-grouping period where the GW is limited to a steam railmotor and the dodgy 2761, not available in saddle tank form.  Basically if you want to model a GW branch with the period set before the 1930s, you do not have much to do it with from the RTR world.  You'd be a bit better off with the Midland or the GER.

[mdvle]

The complex of lines that centred on Watford Junction, the ‘local’ side of which was a busy little Minories, contains a lot of interest.

 

 

Interesting start, St. Albans Abbey looks very interesting though may be tough to scale down to an acceptable width.  But a gas works, cattle, goods shed, yard, and terminal for 2 lines means it could be interesting to research further.

[Nearholmer]

I'm not into 00, but I do keep an eye on what is on offer in r-t-r form for Southern modellers, and they aren't offered an embarrassment of riches in terms of branch-line coaching-stock for any era pre-BR.

 

Southern Railway branches had exclusively pre-grouping stock, except for "through coaches" from London expresses, although some of that stock was modified by the SR to keep it reasonably suitable for the traffic. I think there are one or two coaches available for the ex-LSWR area. The SECR 'birdcages' took a while to descend from main-line to branch use, but had probably 'made it' by the late-1930s. Motor trains on the ex-LBSCR and ex-SECR lines were a right jumble-sale of purpose-built items, detached bits of steam railcars, and former EMU trailers, and included some six-wheeler (maybe converted to four-wheeler) trains, like the ones that migrated to the IoW and are (wonderfully) preserved, all of pre-grouping origin.

 

The Maunsell PP sets weren't created until nearly the end of steam, when the coaches were made redundant  from main-line service by the KC electrification ...... I can just about remember them, so they must be modern!

 

Truly accurate SR branch-line modelling in 4mm/ft still requires a good deal of kit-building of stock, and it might be true to say that the same is true for all pre-BR branchlike modelling. Which is possibly why people like doing it ..... its a good area to work in if you are a craft-oriented hobbyist.

[Harlequin]

Here's one that I've thought about from time to time: Buntingford in Hertfordshire. The terminus of the "Ware, Hadham & Buntingford Railway" with a direct service into Liverpool Street.

 

I don't know much about it but a very atmospheric photo caught my eye a while ago. (Can't find that photo now, of course.) GER/LNER, home counties style rural, close enough to London for commuter services.

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/buntingford/

 

The station is about 250m long - 3.3m (10ft9in) @ 4mm scale.

[scottystitch]

You could do worse than explore the BLTs of Banff, Macduff, and Lossiemouth on the Morayshire/North Aberdeenshire Coast. Also the light branch-line between The Mound on the Far North Mainline to Dornoch. By a strange quirk of fate, the latter operated in it's latter days with a pair of ex-GWR tank engines.

Edited November 21, 2018 by scottystitch

[DCB]

Every time I try to write something it just disappears, I give up

Edited November 22, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[The Stationmaster]

Every time I try to write something it just disappears, I give up

 

That seems to be a flavour of today David.  i've just tried to post a new item in another section and it was rejected umpteen times because the tag didn't have between 1 and 20 letters. (and I've always thought that six letters would be within that range).  Seems the site is still rather lumpy.  

Edited November 22, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[D9020 Nimbus]

Possibly the most compact branch terminus is Holywell Town (ex LNWR).

 

Other possibilities — Loch Tay (CR), Ballachulish (NB), Barton on Humber (GC), Eyemouth (NB—though as it employed gravity shunting in later days might be tricky to operate authentically).

[Ian Morgan]

How about the Kemp Town branch at Brighton. Just over a mile long, it comprised a 14 arch viaduct, a cutting and a 1024 yard long tunnel. Somehow they found room for at least two intermediate stations or halts, maybe more. The tunnel opened out into a large excavated area for the station, much like Ventnor, but on a larger scale.

 

The distance from Kemp Town to Brighton main station was further by rail than by bus or tram, and battery powered buses were used in the early years. The line closed to passengers in 1933, but remained in use for freight until 1971.

 

http://kemp-town-railway.yolasite.com/kemptown-station-and-goods-yard.php