Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO

[adb968008]

Maybe 86219 Phoenix would be an appropriate model and enable me to replace my old Hornby model.

Cheers

Mark

The immediate improvement on 86219 would be having door handles, which Hornby initially omitted on this model.

[classy52]

Hello,

A good question, and one that lots of people are asking. We thought it was better to fill a gap that hadn't been covered by previous releases first, and then (if there's enough demand), to work our way forwards through the variants so that we can do Flexicoil-fitted Class 86/4s and 86/6s and then take another look at the 86/2s later, rather than repeating what had already been produced a few years ago. 

 

Pantograph is based on official drawings of the correct Stone-Faiveley type, but for practical reasons it has had to be 'beefed up' a little to withstand use on 4mm scale catenary. We're waiting to see the first samples 'in the flesh' and will then consider any changes that might be required. 

 

Hope this helps

 

Ben

 

Hi Ben,

 

Could you clarify the following statement taken from your post above please.

 

"We thought it was better to fill a gap that hadn't been covered by previous releases first, and then (if there's enough demand), to work our way forwards through the variants so that we can do Flexicoil-fitted Class 86/4s and 86/6s and then take another look at the 86/2s later, rather than repeating what had already been produced a few years ago."

 

The way I'm reading it is that Heljan will not re-tool and manufacture the later Flexicoil variants if sales of the 86/0 do not meet expectations, is this correct?

Apologies in advance if I've completely mis-read what you said and I hope I'm wrong because I would love the Freightliner variants in the future double heading my intermodal's.

 

Cheers

Steve

[phil-b259]

Hi Ben,

 

Could you clarify the following statement taken from your post above please.

 

"We thought it was better to fill a gap that hadn't been covered by previous releases first, and then (if there's enough demand), to work our way forwards through the variants so that we can do Flexicoil-fitted Class 86/4s and 86/6s and then take another look at the 86/2s later, rather than repeating what had already been produced a few years ago."

 

The way I'm reading it is that Heljan will not re-tool and manufacture the later Flexicoil variants if sales of the 86/0 do not meet expectations, is this correct?

Apologies in advance if I've completely mis-read what you said and I hope I'm wrong because I would love the Freightliner variants in the future double heading my intermodal's.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

Alternatively maybe Heljan are simply reflecting the fact that both Hornby (with their 87 chassis) or Bachmann (with their 90 Chassis ) may already have a Flexicoil 86 under development.e moment.

 

A while ago it was said there were TWO manufactures working on an class 86 model....

 

Head to head duplication has been proven to not be in the interests of manufacturers (unless one offering is way ahead of another in detail terms) so it may be sensible for Heljan to stick with the early variants for the moment, particularly if they are privy to insider information about a rivals plans.

[royaloak]

I wonder if they could offer either an 86/0 or 86/3 with multiple working jumpers on the front?

That would be a bit different.

[MGR Hooper!]

I may be wrong, but from whatever pictures I see online of the Class 86/0 with the Stone-Faiveley pantograph, shouldn't it look more like this?

 

Or can someone explain Heljan's pantograph?

[frobisher]

I wonder if they could offer either an 86/0 or 86/3 with multiple working jumpers on the front?

That would be a bit different.

At a rough guess, those would happen when they consider the 86/4 etc. Unless they skip that step

[forest2807]

I wonder if they could offer either an 86/0 or 86/3 with multiple working jumpers on the front?

That would be a bit different.

Why not add them yourself?

Edited November 23, 2018 by forest2807

[gridwatcher]

Good call Ben! We (at Scottish Diesel and Electric Group) are delighted!

[ThaneofFife]

i cant explain the Heljan pantograph but I think your render is the more correct of the two.   not sure how easy it is to move the point at which the small thin support that you have moved forward of the main lower upright whilst still functioning to push the whole thing up.  Looking at Hornbys old version they seem to have those the correct way around.

 

but its things like this that I hope Ben from Heljan will consider and check out.   This model needs to be bang on this time around......

 

Some 86s carried an extra front cab light on the right hand side offset from centre similar in appearance to the original central headlight on the class 87 with black surround.  Maybe that needs to be born in mind on the tooling too.

[MGR Hooper!]

i cant explain the Heljan pantograph but I think your render is the more correct of the two.   not sure how easy it is to move the point at which the small thin support that you have moved forward of the main lower upright whilst still functioning to push the whole thing up.  Looking at Hornbys old version they seem to have those the correct way around.

 

but its things like this that I hope Ben from Heljan will consider and check out.   This model needs to be bang on this time around......

 

Some 86s carried an extra front cab light on the right hand side offset from centre similar in appearance to the original central headlight on the class 87 with black surround.  Maybe that needs to be born in mind on the tooling too.

If they don't correct it I'll happily put on a ViTrains HO scale one and live with the compromise. That being said everytime Heljan have made a pantograph their blade/head/shoe (whatever it's called??) always ends up with squarish ends....why??? Does Heljan just love squared off stuff?? 

['CHARD]

 That being said everytime Heljan have made a pantograph their blade/head/shoe (whatever it's called??) 

 

Pantograph head.

[87023Velocity]

Just noticed on the CAD that there are no rainstrips above the cab door. I am not sure when they were fitted but seen pics of locos in the original livery without and also with.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[Rugd1022]

Very welcome news and not something I was expecting at all. There are a couple of extra livery variations possible which aren't listed in Andy's opening post - early blue with or without small yellow warning panels plus the white cab roof treatment, as per these two photos...

 

E3165 at Rugby in 1965...

 

E3140 brand new at Doncaster, yellow paint on the headcode box just visible...

Edited November 23, 2018 by Rugd1022

[Francis deWeck]

Hello,

A good question, and one that lots of people are asking. We thought it was better to fill a gap that hadn't been covered by previous releases first, and then (if there's enough demand), to work our way forwards through the variants so that we can do Flexicoil-fitted Class 86/4s and 86/6s and then take another look at the 86/2s later, rather than repeating what had already been produced a few years ago. 

 

Pantograph is based on official drawings of the correct Stone-Faiveley type, but for practical reasons it has had to be 'beefed up' a little to withstand use on 4mm scale catenary. We're waiting to see the first samples 'in the flesh' and will then consider any changes that might be required. 

 

Hope this helps

 

Ben

With respect, the Pantographs supplied with the Olivia's Trains EM1s and EM2s were terrible, beefing up is not the answer, just a good design and modelling technique. My EM1s and EM2s have had their pantographs replaced by those designed, built and fitted by Mike Edge (Judith Edge Models). They run frequently and well under Viessman wires, and survive the occasional snag when the hand from the sky shifts the wires to deal with the infrequent derailment of a coach/wagon (normally Hornby early stuff). The said EM1/2s performed well after being laid up on account of the recent heat wave when very little running was done. In fact they started up and ran perfectly. It might also be observed that the pantographs fitted to the Bachman ALs also perform well. In the cases I am describing, all pantographs are continuously in contact with the wires, running through y junctions and trailing points forming three parallel tracks.

[Francis deWeck]

Where's the Drool button?  AL6 in electric blue, surely the most beautiful of all AC electrics ever!  Meccano magazine in '65 or'66 had E3164 on the cover, no yellow panel.  Still in my mind's eye just stunning.

JF

I have to agree with this post. The locos that have been illustrated in this topic, in particular the pre-TOPS locos, are all worthy of being produced. Hopefully, there will not have to be a dribble effect of one pre-TOPS loco issued on a yearly basis. These are a very welcome addition to the Electric (OH) locos, and as has been stated in an earlier post, why not AL1-4s? The re-run and upgrade from Heljan's point of view is an obvious choice, let's hope they widen their horizons and continue with these types of locos.

[75B]

Very welcome news and not something I was expecting at all. There are a couple of extra livery variations possible which aren't listed in Andy's opening post - early blue with or without small yellow warning panels plus the white cab roof treatment, as per these two photos...

 

E3165 at Rugby in 1965...

E3165 Rugby 1965.jpg

 

E3140 brand new at Doncaster, yellow paint on the headcode box just visible...

E3140 Brand New @ Doncaster.jpg

As far as I’m aware, the cab roof on all the AL1 to AL6 locos was white from new with the lion and wheel emblem; only when painted BR Rail Blue with yellow ends did the cab roof go blue.

Only AL1’s to 5 were originally Electric Blue, the AL6 was BR Blue from new (darker than electric blue) and painted BR Rail Blue from January 1969.

 

Link to the BR Corporate Identity Manual published in July 1965.

http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/home.htm

 

Link to AL6 Rail Blue livery published in January 1969.

http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/manual/4_20.1969-01.gif

 

The other thing to notice on the photo’s is that when the yellow panel was added during building the buffer beam went from red to blue.

 

Keith

[Clive Mortimore]

As far as I’m aware, the cab roof on all the AL1 to AL6 locos was white from new with the lion and wheel emblem; only when painted BR Rail Blue with yellow ends did the cab roof go blue.

Only AL1’s to 5 were originally Electric Blue, the AL6 was BR Blue from new (darker than electric blue) and painted BR Rail Blue from January 1969.

 

Link to the BR Corporate Identity Manual published in July 1965.

http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/home.htm

 

Link to AL6 Rail Blue livery published in January 1969.

http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/manual/4_20.1969-01.gif

 

The other thing to notice on the photo’s is that when the yellow panel was added during building the buffer beam went from red to blue.

 

Keith

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/139654-Heljan-announce-re-tooled-class-86-in-oo/?p=3374174

 

Despite the best efforts of many authors and experts I don't think the colour ever changed. How it was applied did which gave a very slight shade difference. Bit like modellers hand painting and using an air brush.

[wombatofludham]

Quite a few AL6s (together with some AL5 and AL1 types) ran with full yellow ends and white cab roofs between 1968 and about 1970-71.  Some AL5 and AL1 locos carried the darker rail blue but retained white cab roofs for a while over the same period which suggests they were repainted into the new corporate shade but had the white roof treatment added.  By 1972 it seems the majority of white cab roofs were corporate blue.

The period 1968-1971 is a bit of a minefield for combinations of yellow end, white cab roofs, ferret and dartboard or double arrow symbols so it's worth perusing the reference books and Flickr for confirmation of livery styles.

[royaloak]

Why not add them yourself?

WHAT do proper mu mu modelling! 

 

I probably will at some stage, I will be starting to carve up/amend models shortly (got the base boards down just need the track laying) but I baulk at messing up a £30 model, the thoughts of attacking a £200 model fills me with dread, hopefully I will get a bit braver as time passes.

Edited November 23, 2018 by royaloak

[stovepipe]

The other thing to notice on the photo’s is that when the yellow panel was added during building the buffer beam went from red to blue.

 

Keith

 

Regarding red buffer beams and all over Rail Blue, there were only ever a handful produced, something like the first 7 from Doncaster (E3101-7), and the first 9 from EE/VF (E3161-9).

 

All of the EE/VF locos delivered with red buffer beams kept them into the yellow warning panel/white cab roof era. One Doncaster loco, E3106, had full yellow ends with red buffer beams and white roofs. Maybe others from this small batch did too.

 

The remaining 84 locos that followed had yellow panels, white cab roof, and blue buffer beams from new, as you say.

 

One of the first red buffer beam locos would make a very attractive model I reckon, so its 8650 for me..

[wombatofludham]

It's odd but for me personally the "yellow bib" half size warning panel with white cab windows was the best livery carried particularly at the head of a rake of mixed Mk1 and early Mk2 stock in early blue/grey, or mixed rakes of maroon and blue/grey Mk1 stock.  I don't know why but the yellow bib seems to suit the flat front of the 86 more than the as built livery without the panel, possibly because I don't ever recall seeing them run in that livery, which seeing as I was only 3 when they entered service and by the time I started primary school in 1968 they had pretty much all gained full yellow ends, is probably no surprise!

[MGR Hooper!]

It's odd but for me personally the "yellow bib" half size warning panel with white cab windows was the best livery carried particularly at the head of a rake of mixed Mk1 and early Mk2 stock in early blue/grey, or mixed rakes of maroon and blue/grey Mk1 stock. I don't know why but the yellow bib seems to suit the flat front of the 86 more than the as built livery without the panel, possibly because I don't ever recall seeing them run in that livery, which seeing as I was only 3 when they entered service and by the time I started primary school in 1968 they had pretty much all gained full yellow ends, is probably no surprise!

Are you referring to the livery "Les Ross" carries? If so that's one of my favourite ones also along with EWS, RES and Serco Caledonian Sleeper for the Class 86s

[Lowlander]

Hi Ben

 

Agree with all. This model is great news. Personally. I think doing the later versions first would have been a better first bet. The large range of liveries carried would create the demand you mention. This is just an observation based on the demand and therefore the prices being paid on e-bay for Freightliner liveried version. Heaven knows how much an Intercity or triple grey one would fetch. Unless of course you are following the lines of the announcement of the class 25/2. And are creating a model to run alongside another manufacturers model.

 

As the model will have space for a twenty one pin chip. Can I please ask that you leave plenty of room for a large sized speaker(s)? Not just space for the usual squashed in 20 x 40. This size unfortunately seems to be favoured by most manufacturers. And with the advancement in speaker quality is totally unsuitable.

 

Thanks

 

Stephen

Edited November 24, 2018 by ayrmrg

[MGR Hooper!]

Hi Ben

 

Agree with all. This model is great news. Personally. I think doing the later versions first would have been a better first bet. The large range of liveries carried would create the demand you mention. This is just an observation based on the demand and therefore the prices being paid on e-bay for Freightliner liveried version. Heaven knows how much an Intercity or triple grey one would fetch. Unless of course you are following the lines of the announcement of the class 25/2. And are creating a model to run alongside another manufacturers model.

 

As the model will have space for a twenty one pin chip. Can I please ask that you leave plenty of room for a large sized speaker(s)? Not just the usual squashed in 20 x 40. That seem to be favoured by most manufacturers.

 

Thanks

 

Stephen

You'll have the same amount of room as the older one did. The body is being re-tooled but it's using the same chassis.

[Lowlander]

Hi

 

The original one chassis has an eight pin interface. The new one will have a twenty one pin board. So I'm hoping that this thinking is to allow for the fitting of a speaker. Akin to Hornbys 8 pin standard version and the 21 pin is for sound versions.

 

Stephen