Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO

[luke_stevens]

I wonder if they are doing an early 86 because they know/ suspect that another manufacturer is doing a late 86?

 

L

[MGR Hooper!]

Hi

 

The original one chassis has an eight pin interface. The new one will have a twenty one pin board. So I'm hoping that this thinking is to allow for the fitting of a speaker. Akin to Hornbys 8 pin standard version and the 21 pin is for sound versions.

 

Stephen

How much re-tooling will be required for that? I'm not sure.

[Rugd1022]

Are you referring to the livery "Les Ross" carries? If so that's one of my favourite ones also along with EWS, RES and Serco Caledonian Sleeper for the Class 86s

 

For the past week or so 'Les Ross' has been sat in the old No.8 bay platform at Rugby (Midland to give it its correct moniker!), each time I see it I think it looks fabulous, a bit too clean but a great reminder of the thrusting new modernised WCML of the mid to late '60s.

 

Since we're talking AL6 liveries here area few more nuggets of corporate electrickery…

 

An unidentified one with a filthy white cab roof on the blocks at Euston in June '69...

 

E3146 at Crewe in the early '70s...

 

E3101 wearing the red, yellow and white treatment on the Down Slow at Northchurch Tunnel, date unknown...

 

E3196 with the wrong headcode at Northampton (Castle) c.1972...

 

E3109 on the Up Fast at Nuneaton TV in 1970, about as modern as it gets for the time...

 

E3108 at Preston in March '74 with rubber grommeted headlight...

 

Photo by Grahame Wareham, E3106 on the Up Fast at Bletchley in May '69...

 

E3112 at New St, an undated shot and it appears to have no BR logo on the side...

 

E3122 somewhere down the Trent Valley...

 

Another Grahame Wareham photo, E3128 seen in May '69...

 

E3149 on an exhibition train stabled in the old No.3 bay at Rugby Midland in 1966...

 

Another Grahame Wareham shot, E3167 stabled on the down side at Bletchley in May '69...

 

Line up of AL6s at Euston on 25th March '67...

 

A Grahame Wareham portrait shot of E3191 at Willesden TMD in April '69...

Edited November 24, 2018 by Rugd1022

[wombatofludham]

Superb photos with just about every vesrion of livery illustrated.  Thanks for taking the time to share them.

[50A55B]

Are you referring to the livery "Les Ross" carries? If so that's one of my favourite ones also along with EWS, RES and Serco Caledonian Sleeper for the Class 86s

No, Les Ross is painted Electric Blue, which is not what the AL6s carried when built.

[wombatofludham]

No, Les Ross is painted Electric Blue, which is not what the AL6s carried when built.

 

It's also a vary odd shade of blue, the original electric blue used on the AL1-5 classes gave a slightly "metallic" sheen which the paint on "Les Ross" lacks.  To my eyes it's almost Walsall Corporation blue, for those who know their buses!

 

I think some of the confusion that some commentators seem to have over the shade of blue used on the as delivered AL6s might arise from the fact the original rail blue seemed to weather badly, I do recall seeing 86s in the full corporate blue next to those with the white roof treatment and the older livery style had weathered to a noticeably lighter shade.  I'm sure I have also read that there was a slight tweak sometime in the late 1970s to the "Rail Blue" paint specification which helped it weather better.  Nevertheless, the original delivery paint scheme for the AL6s was definitely not the same as that applied to the earlier classes, there are enough photos out there which even in black and white show the 86 colours are darker than those on the 81-85 classes.

['CHARD]

 

To my eyes it's almost Walsall Corporation blue, for those who know their buses!

 

Cock-on!  

[Rugd1022]

A couple more early AL6 shots at Rugby Midland, taken on 4th February 1967, c/o Roger Norfolk... steam was all but dead, the new traction was making its mark and The Beatles were about to unleash 'Strawberry Fields Forever' onto an unsuspecting record buying public...

 

 

 

And these gems from the lens of Northampton area snapper John Evans. c.1967 :

 

Look at the contrast between the already dirty blue on E3130 against the newly applied blue & grey on the Mk1 coach at Roade...

 

 

E3147 and E3176 both passing through Northampton Castle...

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Rugd1022

[piranha230]

Is it me or do the corners of the bodyside grilles look too square ?, if you look at the old Hornby class 86 and the new Hornby class 87 and also the real class 86 they look more rounded on the corners, the grilles on the original Heljan class 86 looked too big and also square on the corners.

[EHertsGER]

86 254 ‘William Webb Ellis’ for me (OK, a renumbering needed - unless someone from Heljan is reading this) just as soon as it hits the shops! Or would I have to keep it as E3142 or 86047? Much difference (on the outside)?

Edited November 25, 2018 by EHertsGER

[MGR Hooper!]

Re-posting a post made by fellow member Gazwire...
 

BR Class 86/0
Gauge: OO
Expected Release: October to December 2019
Price: £145 EST

In response to public demand, Heljan's final announcement is for a completely re-tooled version of their popular OO gauge Class 86, this time depicting the Class 86/0 in as-built condition, which is appropriate for layouts dated between 1965 to 1980. The new model retains the chassis and mechanism from the original model but will feature a number of refinements over the previous batch.
Specifications:
- Completely new pantograph
- 21-pin digital interface
- Improved bodyside grilles
- Original pattern bogies and underframe equipment
CADs for the model have been revealed and the first engineering prototype is expected in early 2019. Prices are estimated, we will notify you if price rises and offer option to cancel.
Click HERE to pre-order yours!
Variations Available to Pre-Order:
Code Details Price
8650 Class 86/0 in BR blue with lion on wheel emblem 'as built' £145 EST
8651 Class 86/0 in BR blue with small yellow panels and lion on wheel emblem £145 EST
8652 Class 86/0 in BR blue with full yellow ends and lion on wheel emblem £145 EST
8653 Class 86/0 in BR blue with white cab roof £145 EST
8654 Class 86/0 in BR blue £145 EST
8655 Class 86/0 in BR blue £145 EST
8656 Class 86/0 in BR blue - weathered £145 EST

[ThaneofFife]

so want a rainhill trials version........

[paulbb]

This is the only non -steam loco to carry Rail Blue without  ANY yellow warning panel...well the first ones anyway.

There were steam locos in Rail blue without them, on the Vale of Rheidol line of course....still they might look cute with yellow or stripes?

[E3109]

The few AL6s built without a yellow panel also had red buffer beams, those which had yellow panels from new, ie the majority had blue buffer beams. I researched this a good while ago, and I don't think there was any crossover.

However, the locos which lacked yellow panels received them within a matter of weeks, and retained red buffer beams at least initially.

 

The locos concerned were the first ones delivered, a handful from E3101 onwards and E3161 onwards. The two batches were built concurrently, at Doncaster and Newton-le-Willows respectively.

 

Edit, just noticed that Stovepipe has said the same earlier in the thread.

Anyway, with this new model I hope that the 'electric blue' myth can finally be laid to rest.

Edited November 26, 2018 by E3109

[MGR Hooper!]

Is it me or do the corners of the bodyside grilles look too square ?, if you look at the old Hornby class 86 and the new Hornby class 87 and also the real class 86 they look more rounded on the corners, the grilles on the original Heljan class 86 looked too big and also square on the corners.

You're not alone there I feel like the bodyside grilles are too square also. I hope Ben can share a few more CAD images.

[MGR Hooper!]

The only other CAD image of the Heljan Class 86 I can find.

 

[Rugd1022]

This is the only non -steam loco to carry Rail Blue without  ANY yellow warning panel...well the first ones anyway.

There were steam locos in Rail blue without them, on the Vale of Rheidol line of course....still they might look cute with yellow or stripes?

 

Caveat required! Brush Type 2 D5578 was painted all over in Monastral Blue for a while, I think it received this livery even before the experimental XP64 blue was applied to Brush Type 4 D1733.

 

And some folk think BR blue is boring... 

[royaloak]

86 254 ‘William Webb Ellis’ for me (OK, a renumbering needed - unless someone from Heljan is reading this) just as soon as it hits the shops! Or would I have to keep it as E3142 or 86047? Much difference (on the outside)?

Heljan are doing an 86/0 with the original (internal) suspension, 86254 is an 86/2 with the modified 'Zebedee'  (external) suspension so the model is not really suitable for your needs, of course it is your model and you can renumber it whatever you want.

Edited November 26, 2018 by royaloak

[WolfofBadenoch]

Very happy to see another AC loco announced but saddened by the fact i think it's outside my time zone - i think.

 

Is there anywhere with a definitive list of when re-numbering took place? I've had a search over the weekend but not found any. I've found a couple of photos in books dated 1985 with 86/0s.

 

What is the difference between an 86/0 and an 86/3? From what i've read it's just the wheels? If it's only this then surely that's a reasonably easy change to make and add an 86/3 to the this batch? I'm finding 86/3 photos thin on the ground but presumably they lasted longer than 86/0 so maybe into 1986 or 1987?

[Southernman46]

E3101 wearing the red, yellow and white treatment on the Down Slow at Northchurch Tunnel, date unknown...

E3101 Northchurch Tunnel.jpg

Yeah - do them vans too please Heljan .............................

['CHARD]

Very happy to see another AC loco announced but saddened by the fact i think it's outside my time zone - i think.

 

Is there anywhere with a definitive list of when re-numbering took place? I've had a search over the weekend but not found any. I've found a couple of photos in books dated 1985 with 86/0s.

 

What is the difference between an 86/0 and an 86/3? From what i've read it's just the wheels? If it's only this then surely that's a reasonably easy change to make and add an 86/3 to the this batch? I'm finding 86/3 photos thin on the ground but presumably they lasted longer than 86/0 so maybe into 1986 or 1987?

 

Answers on a website, please....

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=13&type=E&page=fleet

[wombatofludham]

Very happy to see another AC loco announced but saddened by the fact i think it's outside my time zone - i think.

 

Is there anywhere with a definitive list of when re-numbering took place? I've had a search over the weekend but not found any. I've found a couple of photos in books dated 1985 with 86/0s.

 

What is the difference between an 86/0 and an 86/3? From what i've read it's just the wheels? If it's only this then surely that's a reasonably easy change to make and add an 86/3 to the this batch? I'm finding 86/3 photos thin on the ground but presumably they lasted longer than 86/0 so maybe into 1986 or 1987?

 

86/0 were the as built track hammerers which post 1974 were restricted to 80mph to reduce the track damage and used mainly on freight, they also had the lower rated traction motors with a nominal 3.600 rating compared to the 86/2 which had 4 040hp.  Some, but not all, were later fitted with Class 87 style multiple working jumpers.

 

Class 86.3 were an interim rebuild of Class 86/0 fitted with SAB "rubber" wheels which made them a bit more track friendly and allowed them to run at 100mph, giving the traction planners a bit more flexibility.  Some 86/3 conversions originally lacked jumper cables but all got them in the end.

 

By about 1987-8 all Class 86/0 and 86/3 were converted to Class 86/4 with both SAB rubber wheels and Flexicoil suspension plus multi-working jumper cables.

 

It's a bit of a nightmare following this period so as ever look for photos to double check, there are plenty of books out there plus a Class 86 Flickr group to rummage through.  One other potential pratfall is the pantograph, a lot of 86/0 and 86/3 locos in the mid 80s carried Class 87 style cross-arm pantographs, so unless Heljan intend to model the cross-arm as well, that may be a stumbling block.

[PM47079]

As stated above checking photos is the best way. I remember in 1985 86030 was doing Crew training on the great eastern line and it still had a crossarm pantograph and metal double arrow symbols on the side oh and the little headlight below the tail lamp. I am so looking forward to this model there are a lot of possibilities.

[WolfofBadenoch]

Answers on a website, please....

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=13&type=E&page=fleet

 

Excellent - thanks. A bit of clicking involved but there's plenty of time for research before these hit the shops.

 

86/0 were the as built track hammerers which post 1974 were restricted to 80mph to reduce the track damage and used mainly on freight, they also had the lower rated traction motors with a nominal 3.600 rating compared to the 86/2 which had 4 040hp.  Some, but not all, were later fitted with Class 87 style multiple working jumpers.

 

Class 86.3 were an interim rebuild of Class 86/0 fitted with SAB "rubber" wheels which made them a bit more track friendly and allowed them to run at 100mph, giving the traction planners a bit more flexibility.  Some 86/3 conversions originally lacked jumper cables but all got them in the end.

 

By about 1987-8 all Class 86/0 and 86/3 were converted to Class 86/4 with both SAB rubber wheels and Flexicoil suspension plus multi-working jumper cables.

 

It's a bit of a nightmare following this period so as ever look for photos to double check, there are plenty of books out there plus a Class 86 Flickr group to rummage through.  One other potential pratfall is the pantograph, a lot of 86/0 and 86/3 locos in the mid 80s carried Class 87 style cross-arm pantographs, so unless Heljan intend to model the cross-arm as well, that may be a stumbling block.

 

Thanks for the info - so the obvious visual differences are wheels, possibly jumper cables and possibly pantographs.

[stovepipe]

By about 1987-8 all Class 86/0 and 86/3 were converted to Class 86/4 with both SAB rubber wheels and Flexicoil suspension plus multi-working jumper cables.

 

FWIW I saw my first 86/4s in August 1985, and 86/3s from August 1980.

 

There were a few 86/0 around still in September 1986, after which interests changed to other things......