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Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO


Andy Y
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14 hours ago, Padishar Creel said:

 

hallo,

This is a photo of a postcard bought early 70s, I really don't know when exactly. Treasured it all these years and the colours have held up well.

 

"The up 'Manchester Pullman' arrives at Euston headed by 3.500 h.p. Bo-Bo 25Kv A.C. electric locomotive No. E3122"

 

With standard B/G coaches at the rear I expect an RMWebber can give a ca. date. Definitely not BR Blue.

 

es grüßt 

pc

 

 

20191026_082057.jpg

It is BR blue, indeed the picture proves it, the coaches are pullmans, which was the inverse of BR Blue/Grey, and if you observe the blue of the coaches is the same as the blue as the 86.

81-85’s before the 86’s had electric blue, but 86’s a product of 1965, wore corporate BR blue as introduced in 1964.

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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34 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It is BR blue, indeed the picture proves it, the coaches are pullmans, which was the inverse of BR Blue/Grey, and if you observe the blue of the coaches is the same as the blue as the 86.

81-85’s before the 86’s had electric blue, but 86’s a product of 1965, wore corporate BR blue as introduced in 1964.

 

 

Are you doubting the evidence of a photo of a 50 year old postcard?!

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13 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Are you doubting the evidence of a photo of a 50 year old postcard?!

Quite the opposite, i’m saying it proves it.

 

ignoring the reproductive quality of a 50 year old postcard, the blues on the coaches and the loco to my eyes looks the same.

Edited by adb968008
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19 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Are you doubting the evidence of a photo of a 50 year old postcard?!

 

Accurate colours require quality film (perhaps negative, better slide like Kodachrome), care in the process of transferring to print, and quality paper that allows the proper reproduction of the colours of the original source.

 

None of that applies to the process of making postcards, which needed to be cheap to mass produce and eye-catching on the rack to encourage purchase.  There is a very good chance that in addition to the quality of paper issue that the image was manipulated to make it more attractive, in the process sacrificing any colour accuracy that the source may have had.

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8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Quite the opposite, i’m saying it proves it.

 

ignoring the reproductive quality of a 50 year old postcard, the blues on the coaches and the loco to my eyes looks the same.


They look different to me.

 

Darius

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Mmm, call me Mr Sensible, but I'm going to wait and see what Heljan actually release rather than rely on printed images.  I'll end up buying probably everything before barricading the shed to the bailiffs anyway, so as long as it is not pink or green, Denmark's balance of payments will be better off to the tune of a grand or thereabouts next February.  

 

In any case, I seem to remember there was a slight variation in tone between the "white roof" early Rail Blue and the later version, probably down to weathering.  The early Mk2 coaches which were finished in an odd matt rail blue used to weather badly with a chalky finish, and I'm sure I read somewhere the early Rail Blue spec was slightly revised in the early 70s to make it more resistant to weathering. so even if it was possible to find good quality archive standard colour images of the period you'd probably get some variation anyway.

It just wasn't the earlier Electric Blue which was slightly metallic in finish.

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In the recently published "rail liveries" magazine/book page 25 has a number of AL6s in blue, describing the colour as 'electric blue', including e3167 in 1968 looking very much as above, blue, yellow panel, white window surrounds and cab roof, but with a red buffer beam. However the colour looks rather different to the AL1 of 1959 also on the same page....

 

You pays your money, etc ... ...

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On 26/10/2019 at 07:29, Padishar Creel said:

 

hallo,

This is a photo of a postcard bought early 70s, I really don't know when exactly. Treasured it all these years and the colours have held up well.

 

"The up 'Manchester Pullman' arrives at Euston headed by 3.500 h.p. Bo-Bo 25Kv A.C. electric locomotive No. E3122"

 

With standard B/G coaches at the rear I expect an RMWebber can give a ca. date. Definitely not BR Blue.

 

es grüßt 

pc

 

 

20191026_082057.jpg

 

<pedant>

It's the Liverpool Pullman not the Manchester Pullman

</pedant>

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13 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

<pedant>

It's the Liverpool Pullman not the Manchester Pullman

</pedant>

Is that because of the normal coaches within the consist?

 

I've only ever know the Manchester Pullman, the Liverpool I think had gone by the time I was following trains, and I used to see the Manchester Pullman twice a day during the week.

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I am always hesitant to wade in on livery debates, but on this occasion I'm pretty sure of my facts.

As far as I remember all AL6 loco's were delivered in the original ' electric blue '.

Their delivery straddled pre corporate and the post corporate livery transition. and, again, I believe all

loco's carried the metal BR Lion crest from new.

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Here's a couple of sectioned images taken of a set of newly delivered AL6 inside Crewe Electric shed - the first shows three of them alongside an earlier member of the AL1-5 group for comparison whilst the second showing E3162 depicts how the blue responds to light at different angles (note the open door appearing to be darker than the rest of the body).

 

48010219_E3162@Crewe.jpg.ca6be7996531f63c6f18ccb905a4b5f3.jpg

 

 

421177458_E3162Livery.jpg.f0b4d8f698572d2424c9aacbca5965a3.jpg

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I wish Bachmann would do the Mk2 Pullman cars.  With lighting and the kind of detail they achieved with their Midland Pullman and Mk2f coaches, they wouldn't be cheap, but worth it.  Given on retirement they were upgraded with air brakes and allocated to the Charter fleet in Executive livery those who obey Rule 1 could even justify a rake on non-AC layouts!

Being vacuum braked during their front line service they would sometimes be hauled by the AL5/Class 85 so it's a bit of a no brainer.

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On 29/10/2019 at 17:46, wombatofludham said:

I wish Bachmann would do the Mk2 Pullman cars.  With lighting and the kind of detail they achieved with their Midland Pullman and Mk2f coaches, they wouldn't be cheap, but worth it.  Given on retirement they were upgraded with air brakes and allocated to the Charter fleet in Executive livery those who obey Rule 1 could even justify a rake on non-AC layouts!

 

Maybe something that people could interest Accurascale in doing given they seem to be a bit more adventurous in subjects to make.

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On 28/10/2019 at 23:13, Ouroborus said:

In the recently published "rail liveries" magazine/book page 25 has a number of AL6s in blue, describing the colour as 'electric blue', including e3167 in 1968 looking very much as above, blue, yellow panel, white window surrounds and cab roof, but with a red buffer beam. However the colour looks rather different to the AL1 of 1959 also on the same page....

 

You pays your money, etc ... ...

Colin Marsden has previous for this. Didn’t he also previously claim that the early 73/1s were electric blue as well?

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On 29/10/2019 at 21:46, wombatofludham said:

I wish Bachmann would do the Mk2 Pullman cars.  With lighting and the kind of detail they achieved with their Midland Pullman and Mk2f coaches, they wouldn't be cheap, but worth it.  Given on retirement they were upgraded with air brakes and allocated to the Charter fleet in Executive livery those who obey Rule 1 could even justify a rake on non-AC layouts!

I second that..

 

After there pullman days they got all over the place, with varied traction... Arent some still in use with West Coast Railways today TOPS numbers 99670-99679 :

 

504 ULLSWATER
506 WINDERMERE
546 CITY OF MANCHESTER
548 GRASMERE
549 BASSENTHWAITE
550 RYDAL WATER
551 BUTTERMERE
552 ENNERDALE WATER
553 CRUMMOCK WATER
586 DERWENT WATER

Edited by adb968008
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Not my picture..

 

but its an 86 next to an earlier one..

Class AL6 electric locomotive No E3129

 

And another..

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p366027746/h30F078#h30f078

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p366027746/h63C1EFC8#h63c1efc8

 

 

Now was the 86 different blue to the class 73...

 

c.1970 - Redhill, Surrey.

as afterall 73’s and 86’s were off the same production line in the same year of production..., probably right down to the same artist and their paint brush.

Edited by adb968008
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7 hours ago, Jim76 said:

When did the Liverpool Pullman stop running?

Technically it still does..., todays timings are much faster but closest match is:

 

0807 / 1019 1R12 Eus to Lpl  relates to 0745/1024 +17 minutes faster

0747 / 0959 1F12 Lpl to Eus  Relates to 0755/1030 +23 minutes faster

1807 / 2020 1F24 Eus to Lpl  relates to 1810/2046 +23 minutes faster

1747 / 2003 1A60 lpl to Eus Relates to  1800/2046 +30 minutes faster

 

Virgin canceled all named trains titles, presumably a named train competes with their brand name, and as all services are equal there was no advantage to it.


I remember the liverpool pullman in the 1980’s, the mk2 pullmans went, but BR introduced Mk3 pullmans, complete with a phone booth. You can still ride them, for a few more months they are used by Greater Anglia with class 90’s.

 

 

My 1988 timetable still lists a

Merseyside Pullman departing Liverpool at 0710 arriving Euston 0940

Lancashire Pullman departing Blackpool North at 0625/0946a

Manchester Pullman at 0705/0930a.

 

as an aside their is also an 0654 from Piccadilly, arrives 1121 at Paddington still running... happy days.

 

 

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On 01/11/2019 at 18:49, adb968008 said:

 

 

Not my picture..

 

but its an 86 next to an earlier one..

Class AL6 electric locomotive No E3129

 

And another..

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p366027746/h30F078#h30f078

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p366027746/h63C1EFC8#h63c1efc8

 

 

 

To my eyes the 86 is NOT in electric blue, its definitely a totally different colour to the 85 behind it.  Now the question is did the colour change when the red buffer beams were dropped, or did the early built ones get delivered in electric blue with red buffer beams and later ones switch to all over rail blue, mid build? Or was there a different blue used altogether

Edited by The Ghost of IKB
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On 29/10/2019 at 09:07, trevor7598 said:

As far as I remember all AL6 loco's were delivered in the original ' electric blue '.

According to a contemporeneous report on the new AL6 locos for the "Western Lines" in a 1965 issue of Modern Railways that I have, it states that "the locomotives are being delivered in the new Rail Blue" albeit they had the electric blue livery layout...white window surrounds, red buffer beams and lion & wheel emblems. Some of the earlier ones didn't even have yellow warning panels, at least when they were brand new. I'm not sure if they were ever in service like that.

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On 27/10/2019 at 17:12, BR(S) said:

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere else, but painted EP of 86034 here:

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/60791/8656-Heljan-Class-86-0-Electric-Locomotive-number-86-034

Why Have Heljan chosen a non standard version the data position is correct for 034 but this unique, and was mw fitted, the number seems to be slightly low and sandbox filler slightly high  

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