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Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO


Andy Y
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5 hours ago, InterCitySpud said:

On the subject and on the heels of these new ACs, for me the missing piece of the jigsaw would be a RTR AM10 Class 310/312 which would've been seen alongside all these locos for more than a decade. With such a variety of liveries and regions they worked under I would like to know others opinions if were ever likely to see a RTR version. Are Southern Pride the only option in the near future?

 

I would love to model an area of Northamptonshire in the Eighties but its impossible to do that without some 310s, several indeed!

I did hear a rumour at a show a few years back that one of the big two, who have previously shown a commitment to OHE subjects was looking at an AM10 but it may just have been speculative gum flapping.  However, as the same manufacturer seems to cock a snoop to the doomsters who claim British modellers won't pay for four car units by releasing four car units on a regular basis, and presumably selling them given they keep releasing multi-car units at prices commentators claim we won't pay, who knows - it would certainly be consistent with other models available and with multiple versions and liveries, including the ever popular NSE livery, could be a slow but regular seller.

I've just placed an order with Britannia Pacific models for a commission of their new Class 312 recently announced.  Being hand-built it's not cheap but I figured that it would be worth it given it would be a bespoke model.  I've gone for the unique WMPTE "NS" blue/yellow liveried 312204, which all being well should be ready next August.  So, given I've committed serious moolah to acquiring a hand built model, expect an announcement by someone of an RTR 310-312 OO gauge model in the New Year announcements.

 

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44 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

I did hear a rumour at a show a few years back that one of the big two, who have previously shown a commitment to OHE subjects was looking at an AM10 but it may just have been speculative gum flapping.  However, as the same manufacturer seems to cock a snoop to the doomsters who claim British modellers won't pay for four car units by releasing four car units on a regular basis, and presumably selling them given they keep releasing multi-car units at prices commentators claim we won't pay, who knows - it would certainly be consistent with other models available and with multiple versions and liveries, including the ever popular NSE livery, could be a slow but regular seller.

I've just placed an order with Britannia Pacific models for a commission of their new Class 312 recently announced.  Being hand-built it's not cheap but I figured that it would be worth it given it would be a bespoke model.  I've gone for the unique WMPTE "NS" blue/yellow liveried 312204, which all being well should be ready next August.  So, given I've committed serious moolah to acquiring a hand built model, expect an announcement by someone of an RTR 310-312 OO gauge model in the New Year announcements.

 

I had no idea about the Britannia Pacific 312 until today, so thanks very much for the information. Hopefully they would be able to muster two sets of 310s one in blue and one in blue grey would be perfect! I agree, the 310/312s compared to many early EMUs went on to cover many regions and liveries, I may be wrong but I think I even saw a Silverlink once?

 

I simply cannot contemplate the layout I have planned without some, so cost would almost be irrelevant. So there's some more evidence of a customer willing to buy a four car set, if any manufacturer fairies are listening!

 

I'll take the positive views knowing that at least one potential solution is out there. Look forward to seeing yours when it's done.

 

 

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I made a bunch of 3d printed portals including the registration fittings about 5 years ago, in four different designs. Mostly for test purposes on my own layout.  They look really good but being 3d printed, are quite expensive per unit, and the registration parts really need to be soldered metal if they are they are to be used as a working system, which admittedly not everyone does.  I toyed with the idea of getting some molds made but never got anywhere with it, but as noted earlier, AC electrics have come on quite a bit even since 5 years ago so might be worth another bash at exploring perhaps..?

 

RE the EMUs,  I like the 310s, but always thought they looked best with their original wrap around windscreens. 

They did run along side class 85/86/87/90s too so it would be a complimentary product to offer along side the existing locomotives. More so than their (admittedly very nice) class 350.

And of course the 312s were very similar in appearance, albeit with the less stylish flat windscreens carried from new.   Both classes of unit moved around a bit so provide modelling opportunities for LMR, ECML, GE and LTS routes over their almost 40 year careers.  Definitely one with potential..

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I lived my entire childhood from 1970 until around 1990 living within earshot of the WCML, in a village called Roade which is where the main line separates and the Northampton loop descends into a cutting.

 

Daytime brought a constant non stop stream of ACs 81-87, 310s and the odd diesel now and then, usually a 25/3 for a bit of excitement but deep into the night you would often hear the thunder of mysterious visiting diesels roaring out of the deep cutting.

 

However, I was never able to properly model what I saw before me, instead it was Cornish branchlines, Peaks on the Midland or Deltics that dragged me away! Now thanks to the new interest and forthcoming improved locos and equipment the time has come.

 

Any views on the new Peco 4 track catenary? Would it be possible to chop and amend to suit ? This seems pretty close to the OLE in the day, albeit rusty in places, which is fun to weather!

 

 

98268C6F-530C-4239-ADAB-A4938E020CDF.jpeg.e5d6c8cdf4038342742aed5706226090.jpeg

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It's not - yet.  It's been promised for so long now I suspect the production plan is being carried down some Alpine mountain tied to a frozen slug hitching a ride on a glacier.

Peco have promised the gantries in their  latest project update though so who knows, it might be inbound sometime in the next century.

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Ooh, the portals do look good! The insulators could be better though.  I think those are the same not very realistic looking ones they put on their mk3 single masts, which let them down a bit IMO.  Where/when was that photo taken? Any release date given?

 

Should probably start a separate thread on electrification but...If anyone wants something doing now feel free to PM me. Most of the files have been successfully tried and are ready to print, and there's a couple of designs I haven't tried yet but expect to come out ok.   Apologies for the blurry pics they were taken rather hastily some years ago...

Last pic is how they come out of the box from the printers. Then its just a matter of gluing it all together (5 minute job) and spray painting the desired grey colour, then doing the insulators and registration arms with a fine brush.

 

 

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@InterCitySpud there is a forum for the PECO catenary here on rmweb,

 

 

also, with the PECO multi-track gantry, the devil is in the detail pet, its a two track gantry LC-120 with extendable sections ON LC-121, so, likely to be applicable in wider (ie 4 or more track configuration)

 

@NorthenElectric91 you should do a feed/forum page for these gantries for sure, there are brilliant, i think I messaged you sometime back about doing some for my layout, i have opted for nBrass for the main sections but i may look to have a more accurate terminating gantry and the gantry outside the three track shed which i think would fit Picture2 nicely.

 

Kat@johnsonstreetIEMD

Edited by DBC90024
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Thanks for the information, I will check out the Peco Catenary chit chat thread!

 

Northern Electric, they look fantastic, especially like the tension gantry and the BR worker looking a bit cold! I used to see the gantry's get painted by hand in light grey, often on Diesel Sundays, that rare treat for us living under wires when BR had not paid the leccy bill!

 

On these 'super Sundays,' we would have mostly 47s on mainline passenger, sometimes double headed rats, but the 25s mostly pulled the 310s around during cut off days. Marvelous, we never moved all day!

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16 hours ago, NorthenElectric91 said:

Ooh, the portals do look good! The insulators could be better though.  I think those are the same not very realistic looking ones they put on their mk3 single masts, which let them down a bit IMO.  Where/when was that photo taken? Any release date given?

 

Should probably start a separate thread on electrification but...If anyone wants something doing now feel free to PM me. Most of the files have been successfully tried and are ready to print, and there's a couple of designs I haven't tried yet but expect to come out ok.   Apologies for the blurry pics they were taken rather hastily some years ago...

Last pic is how they come out of the box from the printers. Then its just a matter of gluing it all together (5 minute job) and spray painting the desired grey colour, then doing the insulators and registration arms with a fine brush.

 

 

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DSCF7061.jpg

 

They look great NorthenElectric91! Couple of questions if I could. Whose contact wires do you use and how do you fix them? Being 3D prints, are they robust enough for the pantograph to actually touch the contact wire?

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It seems like there's some interest so to avoid derailing this thread I'll start a dedicated OLE thread shortly.

 

But, in answer to those questions, the portals themselves are reasonably strong and good enough for use on a working contact system.

The registration and support fitting are different - Ones in the first and second pictures I made myself out of soldered 0.7mm brass wire. They are strong enough for use on a contact system.   The ones in the other pics are the 3d printed ones and, they are just about strong enough to support wires, but wouldn't stand any pressure or tension being applied from a pantograph.

 

The V shaped hangers are used in areas with fixed wires i.e without the constant-tension system of weights and pulleys. They are usually seen in areas with extensive pointwork and where running speeds are lower, such as terminus stations, depots, yards, complex junctions etc.

The L shaped hangers are used mostly for the constant tension system, which is required where running speeds are above 80mph, and are what you will see on open stretches of track out on the mainline, though they are sometimes used elsewhere also.

 

You can make both kinds out of soldered brass wire or you can 3d print them.  The results look slightly more detailed with the 3d printed ones, but as mentioned they are only really for cosmetic use. 

 

EDIT:  It is actually possible to 3d print the registration arms in copper/brass/bronze etc. so they would be strong enough, albeit rather more expensive...

 

Edited by NorthenElectric91
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  • 1 month later...

As an AC electrics fan and having owned two first generation Heljan Class 86s (Freightliner and Anglia blue) I am pretty curious about the new 86. From what I have seen of the initial pre-production examples, it looks really good and will be reasonably up to date tech wise if not maybe as much as the Bachmann 90 or the Accurascales Class 92. The age of the electric train is very much here and hopefully the new Heljan Class 86 follows this path. I wonder whether its arrival will spawn someone like Bachmann or Heljan to do the earlier AC electrics like the 81, 82, 83 and 84's. 

 

Personally, I will be more interested in the later 86s, hopefully Heljan gets round to doing an EWS 86 (261, 401 or 424 please) ...

 

Kat@johnsonstreetIEMD

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AC electric EMUs for me.  There are already some nice models out there - the Desiro is an excellent model and fantastic value at first release. The London Midland livery really bright and the unbranded Silverlink livery reminiscent of reversed BR blue. However the very colourful SWT livery was a big jump in RRP over the initial batches. Bachmann might release some new liveries this year but as the current West Midlands and South Western livery feel a little underwhelming, would any of them sell? 

Bachmann should ask WM and SW trains to jazz things up a bit!

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1 hour ago, DBC90024 said:

I wonder whether its arrival will spawn someone like Bachmann or Heljan to do the earlier AC electrics like the 81, 82, 83 and 84's. 

 

I'm doubtful we'll ever see Classes 82, 83 and 84 in RTR form, especially seeing as the bottom appears to have vanished from underneath the market for weird and wonderful Diesel Prototypes from a few years back, which perhaps could have seen Heljan produce them. Although, it will be worth watching if the Rails of Sheffield/ Accurascale Class 89 ends up released, which may significantly change the OHLE 'playing field' as it where.

 

The Class 81 remains somewhat more viable, and of course with the Heljan 86/0's incoming, it may provide impetus to see it announced. It's long been speculated that the boys from Barwell may attempt one, given the class 85 as a base. But, it's not as simple as reusing the class 85 underframe and sticking an 81 shell on top. There are significant differences between the two just on bogies alone, and as I think was demonstrated with the Heljan 86/2, OHLE modellers are not in the market for sub-par models.

 

Regards

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I would have thought a Class 81 would have been on the cards. This is traditionally Hornby's territory and they do seem to have gone round re-tooling previous offerings (i.e. Class 08, 31, 87, 91). The 81's were also more numerous lasted longer than some of the other types.

 

There are a few new players in the manufacturing field that might take on some of these projects that the bigger boys won't. Personally, I would like to see a Class 84 first.

 

As for emu's, it's always the cost 3 or 4 car units. Would people pay it? As a long time commuter on Class 310's, they were one of my favourites. In the end, I couldn't wait for an rtr version and built the Southern Pride kit. It makes up nicely and the wrap round, flat screen and 312 variants are catered for. They also do a 304, which I have, but not built yet.

 

 

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3 hours ago, ClikC said:

 

I'm doubtful we'll ever see Classes 82, 83 and 84 in RTR form, especially seeing as the bottom appears to have vanished from underneath the market for weird and wonderful Diesel Prototypes from a few years back, which perhaps could have seen Heljan produce them. Although, it will be worth watching if the Rails of Sheffield/ Accurascale Class 89 ends up released, which may significantly change the OHLE 'playing field' as it where.

 

The Class 81 remains somewhat more viable, and of course with the Heljan 86/0's incoming, it may provide impetus to see it announced. It's long been speculated that the boys from Barwell may attempt one, given the class 85 as a base. But, it's not as simple as reusing the class 85 underframe and sticking an 81 shell on top. There are significant differences between the two just on bogies alone, and as I think was demonstrated with the Heljan 86/2, OHLE modellers are not in the market for sub-par models.

 

Regards

 

is it so much the market disappearing from underneath the market for Diesel Prototypes or more that they're nearly all produced now? I just saw a posting of a KR models GT3 being unboxed and they have plans for the Fell and DHP1 Super Clayton so in terms of diesels there cant be many more mainline ones other than 10800 which probably isn't distinctive enough from a Class 15 or 16 to produce.

 

I wouldn't have thought a leap to produce the early AC locos would be too difficult compared to quite how unsuccessful some of those prototypes were if some are rare to have photos of them outside!!

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1 hour ago, Wolf27 said:

If anyone is going to produce any of these (81-84), I would say it would be KR models. 
 

cheers

 

Shane

 

KR Models are open to suggestions and in fact I suggested a Class 84, 82 and 83 to them.  They did reply saying I wasn't the first to do so and that there had been interest in these ac loco's. So, if you want one, suggest it to them and who knows?

 

In the meantime, I'll look forward to my possibly earlier than thought delivery of an original condition Heljan AL6!

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3 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said:

As for emu's, it's always the cost 3 or 4 car units. Would people pay it? As a long time commuter on Class 310's, they were one of my favourites. In the end, I couldn't wait for an rtr version and built the Southern Pride kit. It makes up nicely and the wrap round, flat screen and 312 variants are catered for. They also do a 304, which I have, but not built yet.

 

Well Bachmann seem to think so, they continue to churn out 4 car stabiliser rail units and three car DMUs at prices we regularly see people questioning if they will sell.  They must be happy their marketing people manage to shift them otherwise they'd be making something else a lot cheaper.

They clearly sold enough first run Blue Pullmans to make a second run worthwhile despite pricing some said would make them shelf queens, and even the Grey Pullman train set which very nearly breached £1k appears to have sold, although they are still available.

It will all come down to manufacturer's own market intelligence and financial planning, which in Bachmann's case has a knack of proving the internet pundits wrong when it comes to sales (remember the clarion call "overhead electrics don't sell?" Bachmann's response? "Whatever, hold my latte, here's an 85 and a 90") but I do think that a Class 310 emu would sell even at Bachmann prices, especially if it was produced in all variations.  It may not sell in massive numbers, but I bet it would sell in enough numbers to make it worthwhile.  

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14 minutes ago, Wagpnmaster said:

 

KR Models are open to suggestions and in fact I suggested a Class 84, 82 and 83 to them.  They did reply saying I wasn't the first to do so and that there had been interest in these ac loco's. So, if you want one, suggest it to them and who knows?

 

In the meantime, I'll look forward to my possibly earlier than thought delivery of an original condition Heljan AL6!

An 84 would offer them the chance of a tie in with the NRM as one is in the National Collection, probably as an example of how not to build an electric.  Might help with the cost of production.  There's also the Mobile Load bank version which was used by the research department in their always popular red and blue livery, and red and blue research stuff always flies off the shelf.

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2 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

is it so much the market disappearing from underneath the market for Diesel Prototypes or more that they're nearly all produced now? I just saw a posting of a KR models GT3 being unboxed and they have plans for the Fell and DHP1 Super Clayton so in terms of diesels there cant be many more mainline ones other than 10800 which probably isn't distinctive enough from a Class 15 or 16 to produce.

 

I wouldn't have thought a leap to produce the early AC locos would be too difficult compared to quite how unsuccessful some of those prototypes were if some are rare to have photos of them outside!!


Hi Gordon,

 

It’s not just the that we have a lot of weird and wonderful now produced, but also the large increases in RTR prices, and the current turbulence re: COVID. Hence I commented on the effect rather than the cause. 
 

But I agree, the success of KR Models now leading the charge on ‘weird and wonderful’ is a factor which may change the RTR landscape, and I (as someone in the market for 9-12 decent models of 82, 83 and 84 respectively) for one could not be more happy to be proved wrong.

 

Regards

 

Matt

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