Jump to content

Andy Y

Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO

Recommended Posts

On 29/10/2019 at 09:07, trevor7598 said:

As far as I remember all AL6 loco's were delivered in the original ' electric blue '.

According to a contemporeneous report on the new AL6 locos for the "Western Lines" in a 1965 issue of Modern Railways that I have, it states that "the locomotives are being delivered in the new Rail Blue" albeit they had the electric blue livery layout...white window surrounds, red buffer beams and lion & wheel emblems. Some of the earlier ones didn't even have yellow warning panels, at least when they were brand new. I'm not sure if they were ever in service like that.

Edited by Swissrail
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
On 27/10/2019 at 17:12, BR(S) said:

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere else, but painted EP of 86034 here:

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/60791/8656-Heljan-Class-86-0-Electric-Locomotive-number-86-034

Why Have Heljan chosen a non standard version the data position is correct for 034 but this unique, and was mw fitted, the number seems to be slightly low and sandbox filler slightly high  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21/10/2019 at 17:43, MGR Hooper! said:

Heljan have revealed the artwork for the upcoming Class 86s:-

 

8650_3456282_Qty1_cat1.jpg.1849c0531034c3369b8c22852bd44dd2.jpg

 

8651_3456283_Qty1_cat1.jpg.41e42db34fe9e03b66bf3a09318cc130.jpg

 

8652_3456284_Qty1_cat1.jpg.65cb2400962bf892868aa1306034320c.jpg

 

8653_3456285_Qty1_cat1.jpg.b4bb485751ce97793fffda8ba4476876.jpg

 

8655_3456287_Qty1_cat1.jpg.9950627f407da2dec574746cc600d865.jpg

 

8656_3456288_Qty1_cat1.jpg.4cb8fc7dc2f38b3b2be6b9e2ab50d539.jpg

 

 

Well done Heljan for spotting 86034 is unique but still lacks being MW fitted and has Two compressors, 86 036 also has Two compressors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wn 1A said:

Well done Heljan for spotting 86034 is unique but still lacks being MW fitted and has Two compressors, 86 036 also has Two compressors. 

Hello, 

Just to clarify, we baseball our loco selections on photographic evidence and this pair is no different. We have excellent photos of 86034/036 in the conditions depicted, ie still with glazed headcode panels but without MW equipment. 
The compressors are separate parts so anyone who wishes to model them in later condition can simply remove one - it’s a very easy job! 
We will have samples on the Heljan stand at Warley next weekend if anyone wants a closer look.
 

Thanks

 

Ben

  • Like 3
  • Friendly/supportive 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ben

 

So, just to clarify on the above, these examples could be modelled for later condition, but maybe not as late as Caledonian Sleeper 86101 or 86401 or the Colas one. I have just snapped up a British Railways blue with white cab Heljan 86233 on ebay, and its my intention to find a donor Heljan Class 86 for the Caledonian treatment in the fullness of time.

 

Kind Regards

Kat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, DBC90024 said:

Hi Ben

 

So, just to clarify on the above, these examples could be modelled for later condition, but maybe not as late as Caledonian Sleeper 86101 or 86401 or the Colas one. I have just snapped up a British Railways blue with white cab Heljan 86233 on ebay, and its my intention to find a donor Heljan Class 86 for the Caledonian treatment in the fullness of time.

 

Kind Regards

Kat

Exactly. The condition we are offering on this batch only takes you as far as the late-1970s. 
Beware though, 86101 is quite different as it is basically a Class 87 and the bogies are an entirely different design so would need an awful lot of work and a Hornby 87 donor loco. 
86401 is also also quite different as it has SAB wheels, Flexicoil springs, TDM cables (with the old MW cable mountings plated over) and lots of retro fitted bits for the modern era. 
It has always been our intention to cover the later periods and other sub-classes over the coming years, so keep an eye out for updates. 
 

Hope this helps

 

Ben

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ben

 

Thank you for that... I am currently getting my Bachmann DB 90s sorted amongst other things so the Heljan 86s will be one for the future for sure

 

Kind Regards

Kat

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

cant wait to see them at Warley.  more likelyi'll be waiting for an early 80s 86/3

 

do these have any interior cablights?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking exactly that, getting an 86 and putting it on an 87 chassis.

 

for the marker lights i found a pretty nice solution... my daughter got her ears pierced and needs invisible ear-rings for school..Basically a clear plastic stud, 2mm wide circle.

 

various other bits in mind too.

Edited by adb968008

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I was thinking exactly that, getting an 86 and putting it on an 87 chassis.

Would the equipment in between the bogies be correct for an 86/1 though?

I have never actually looked to see what configuration the 86/1s had, whether 86 style or 87 style.

 

Edit-

Just had a look and they are more 86 style with an extra box where one of the air compressors has left a space on the 'all grille' side on the other 86s.

Edited by royaloak
more information.
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've said many times before.

 

When I worked for Freightliner I took deep paint samples of at least 12 of the 16 still-operational locomotives.

I can confirm that they were *built* in Rail Blue (or at least a form of it).

 

My mate is one of the gaffers in the Basford Hall loco shed (VMF)

I'm sure I could get him to do the same if I buy him a few pints.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, E3109 said:

As I've said many times before.

 

When I worked for Freightliner I took deep paint samples of at least 12 of the 16 still-operational locomotives.

I can confirm that they were *built* in Rail Blue (or at least a form of it).

 

My mate is one of the gaffers in the Basford Hall loco shed (VMF)

I'm sure I could get him to do the same if I buy him a few pints.

 At last, it seems theres thr proof.  Thats that, and we'll say no more about it.......... at least for a week or two!

 

Seriously though, thanks for clearing it up, hopefully once and for all. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heljan announces class 86/4’s

 

 

Including Freightliner 86/6 and Caledonian Sleeper 86401.

2E4DD98E-78C9-4B81-985E-C890BB0CD532.jpeg

3339B34A-A798-4940-895D-AD7AE8310BB7.jpeg

DC846A6B-8EA4-4ED2-8E1B-7AA4A6F8776D.jpeg

Edited by adb968008
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great news although I note with quizzical interest that Heljan are still avoiding the /2 for now - I do wonder if there's been some "Chinese whispers" afoot and Hornby are going to claim what they think of as their territory with an upgraded  86/2 in the new year.

Still, what with the complete list of AL6s and at least 3 47s on my list for next year I think Heljan's profit account is going to be helped enough already

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very pleased to finally see a new AC loco model in IC Executive livery (hopefully Hornby will announce an 87 in this livery too next year)

 

Now isn't the 86/4 pictured only a small step away from an 86/2 anyway Mark?    Drop the MU cables, slap on a cross arm pan and youre there arent you?   I reckon Heljan must have built into their retool the option to release the 86/2 and I just cant see Hornby doing this as a standalone model as they would be very limited in where they went with the tooling afterwards unless they point blank went up against the new Heljan model in all guises.

 

I see in the colour image their 86/4 has flexicoil suspension = not sure if all 86/4s had that but I suspect they did and that to me paves the way for an 86/2 (roll on on the Rainhill trials pair, executive, BR Blue, crossarms, stone faiveleys andBW pans etc)

 

BTW what do Warley visitors think of this new version regarding the pan and its frame height?   The pan in the EP photo looks like a single lower arm so whilst the first attempt back in 2013 was huge it did at least look like a stone faiveley.  That frame though looks very proud to me, I mean sitting up high, I would be interested in seeing any photos to show how low down the real thing is mounted.    

 

Can Ben advise if these 86s have interior cab lighting functions and will the 86/4 have central high intensity headlight as per the photo as not all had this I believe?   

 

Hopefully they have banished droopy couplings too.

Edited by ThaneofFife
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • ........on the pans to me it looks like the frame is mounted on the wrong type of insulators.   the frame insulators looking at other photos of the real thing are very short so the frame sits lower.   on the model it looks like they have used the same taller insulators under the frame that were used further along the main "bus" (?) bar.  maybe I am wrong or maybe Heljan already know this and are yet to make final adjustments to the pans.
  •  
  • I see Accurascale are also having pan issue on the 92 but for different reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ThaneofFife said:

I just cant see Hornby doing this [the 86/2] as a standalone model as they would be very limited in where they went with the tooling afterwards unless they point blank went up against the new Heljan model in all guises.

 

I think it was more a suggestion that Heljan realised they were likely to clash given Hornbys 87, guessed that Hornby would start with the 86/2 and have gone for the gaps first to try and grab as much share as poss. Pure speculation obviously - we'll find out if and when Hornby roll one out! 

Edited by Hal Nail

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

I see in the colour image their 86/4 has flexicoil suspension = not sure if all 86/4s had that but I suspect they did and that to me paves the way for an 86/2 (roll on on the Rainhill trials pair, executive, BR Blue, crossarms, stone faiveleys andBW pans etc)

 

Yes, 86/4s had flexicoil suspension. They were essentially an 86/2 with MW gear. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

Now isn't the 86/4 pictured only a small step away from an 86/2 anyway Mark?    Drop the MU cables, slap on a cross arm pan and youre there arent you?   I reckon Heljan must have built into their retool the option to release the 86/2 and I just cant see Hornby doing this as a standalone model as they would be very limited in where they went with the tooling afterwards unless they point blank went up against the new Heljan model in all guises.

 

Class 86s had cross arm pans fairly randomly across the sub-types including 86/0, 86/4 and 86/2, which is something to watch out for when renumbering the new Heljan offerings.  Some were even built and delivered with cross arm pans.  As ever, photo evidence required.

One thing that Heljan could do of course if the multiple working boxes are separate items is release the 86/0 with jumper boxes, or the 86/0 with 86/4 wheels and jumper boxes as the 86/3 (an 86/0 with SAB wheels).   However, if Hornby don't announce an 86/2 in January then I would imagine the Danes will move on from the /4 and /6 to the /2, and may do so even if the H do announce.  The 86s were the 47s of the electrics, still cling to life despite being just a couple of years younger than me and have been one of the more widespread classes of electric, so I suspect they won't be afraid to take on Margate.

I just can't help thinking that Hornby, with their highly territorial attitude to what they consider "their" models (Terrier, 61XX) won't be afraid to pony up with an 86/2.  Don't forget, the 86/2 has as many body options as the 87 if not more (with and without high intensity headlamp, different pantographs (Stone-Faiveley, AEI Cross-arm and Brecknell-Willis "Hispeed"), named/unnamed banger blue, Exec, IC Swallow, RFD/ Parcels, Virgin, Preserved (Les Ross), and one off celebrity liveries (Novelty, Sans Pareil and Alstom Heritage) and if the body moulding can be made to accept the Class 87 chassis, the three Class 86/1 locos, with suitable under-solebar changes.  That's a lot of mileage from a tooling that they will claim is as much their natural territory as the two kettles which only became Hornby "territory" when they acquired Dapol's steam catalogue.  I think they could make a go of just an 86/2 which has more diversity and sales options than their 87.

There again if they are wanting to cock their leg up the AC Electric tree to mark their territory they could just as well choose the AL1 sapling...

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

BTW what do Warley visitors think of this new version regarding the pan and its frame height?  

 

First impression of the pan for me was, "My word, that looks chunky!"  I cannot comment on the appearance with regard to pan height as it wasn't something I was aware of there being an issue with, however the overall look of the pan in general, to my eyes at least, appeared kind of 'big' looking, somewhat chunky and dare I say lacking a sense of finesse...

 

 

Edited by YesTor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/11/2019 at 23:22, royaloak said:

Would the equipment in between the bogies be correct for an 86/1 though?

I have never actually looked to see what configuration the 86/1s had, whether 86 style or 87 style.

 

Edit-

Just had a look and they are more 86 style with an extra box where one of the air compressors has left a space on the 'all grille' side on the other 86s.

 

The extra box is the weak field case which is on the opposite side to an 87.  The space occupied by the weak field case on the 87 is where the vacuum exhausters are on the 86.

  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/11/2019 at 12:39, wombatofludham said:

Great news although I note with quizzical interest that Heljan are still avoiding the /2 for now - I do wonder if there's been some "Chinese whispers" afoot and Hornby are going to claim what they think of as their territory with an upgraded  86/2 in the new year.

Still, what with the complete list of AL6s and at least 3 47s on my list for next year I think Heljan's profit account is going to be helped enough already

 

Good Morning,

Just wanted to catch up with a few comments here after the Warley weekend. I fear people are reading rather too much into our choices on the 86s. We've never made any secret of the fact that we plan to work our way through the various sub-classes. However, we/I were keen to produce some of the missing versions that have never been properly covered in RTR, notably the original AL6 and now the 86/4s, rather than simply doing new models of subjects we covered in the first batch. We will get to the 86/2s in due course, but it's not possible (or desirable) to suddenly flood the market with dozens of models covering all possible variants/liveries/periods, especially on a class with a history as complex as the 86s. The 86/4 is a big step towards an 86/2, and design work is in progress. Using bits of artwork and existing parts we can also, at some point, add an MW fitted 86/0 and an 86/3 to the range if there is demand. However, the huge quantity of liveries and variations on the 86/4 and 86/6 should keep us occupied for some time yet. 

With regard to the pantograph, that is the final version, and far from being 'chunky' it is probably around 50% of the size of the old one. Designing a pan in this scale involves some compromises, balancing finesse against robustness. From expensive personal experience, I know that there are some superbly fine pans out there on HO models, but they are so easily damaged.

 

In terms of other improvements, the 86 has LED lighting, a 21-pin DCC interface, improved body shape and grilles. There will also be a process of evolution, with more improvements and upgrades planned for the 86/4. 

 

Ben

  • Like 9
  • Informative/Useful 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ben,

 

Its great to see the positive improvements and new range for the next couple of years. As you know I will be getting a pair of 86/6 in Freightliner the hard part will be choosing which to renumber the second one as. They will certainly be handy for a long rake of FSA/FTA and the ecofrets that have all just been announced.

 

The West Coast model of 33029 is also a welcome addition seeing use throughout the country, even to Windermere! D6515 is tempting too looking at the artwork seeing plenty of mainline use including a very model-able branch line society working in the North West with 4 MK1’s and 33029 in top and tail.

 

All the best

Mark

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I'll be in for the first Freightliner 86/6 and future release 86's in hopefully Powerhaul livery...great to see a number of AC's getting a re-tool from various players atm.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.