Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

But if only they had built more 303s. We could have had an unobstructed forwards view and sitting down.

 

Perhaps with the B4 bogies though rather than Gresleys which were a bit lively.

I recall everytime a 303 was passed at speed the doors would violently slam inwards, and back outwards, as would the whole carriage give a bit of a wobble.

[E3109]

On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 08:24, Wagpnmaster said:

I am very pleased to see Heljan produce this retooled Class 86 in as built condition, I have been waiting in the hope someone would produce one. 

 

However, despite previous discussion on the subject, I still have concerns over the correct colour. The above image posted by E3109 shows E3187 in the colours I remember whilst watching them at Rugby and Coventry. To my eyes, this is not the standard Rail Blue, which is much darker. The earlier electric next to it is in Electric Blue and E3187 is painted a very similar shade, even if it is not Electric Blue. Could this be the earlier faded Chromatic Blue?

 

Trawling through other photographs from various sources show 86's in this lighter shade. Unfortunately I didn't find one with an early and Rail Blue loco's together for comparison.

 

It would be a pity to have the retooled model spoilt by the wrong shade of paint.

 

I also echo the other observations contributers have pointed out, especially the pantograph.

 

I went off paint samples from the 86/6s I've worked on. Samples from a dozen or so engines.

It's Rail Blue. Not Electric Blue, nor any mythical 'other' shade.

[Wagonmaster]

1 hour ago, E3109 said:

I went off paint samples from the 86/6s I've worked on. Samples from a dozen or so engines.

It's Rail Blue. Not Electric Blue, nor any mythical 'other' shade.

I wouldn't say it is  'mythical' shade, but its not the later Rail Blue we are used to, it's a slightly lighter shade, but not Electric Blue as with the AL1-AL5's. This is illustrated with your photographs. The shade was also very noticeably different against the 'new' AM10's that were painted Rail Blue. This is what I saw day in day out commuting from Coventry to New Street.

 

An AM4 and AM10 would be useful additions for anyone modelling the WCML. However, I couldn't wait and have built the Southern Pride AM10. My model is slightly modified to include working illuminated tail lamps and headcodes. The detailed interior is also illuminated with my own 'flicker free' circuit suitable for both analogue and DCC. The pan head has the Viessman spark unit fitted to produce random flashes whilst travelling under the wires.

This is the DTCOL from the four car unit.

[wombatofludham]

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 17:07, 61661 said:

Lovely units and would also make a nice model, but maybe one for another time!

January 2020 would be fine.

No rush, let you get the 86s out first, we're not that demanding...

[wombatofludham]

Hattons (other box shifters are available) have uploaded new photos of the second engineering prototype, which seems to have had the pantograph reworked.

 

I'm impressed, now advertising as early 2020 delivery.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=468&utm_campaign=Project Update - Heljan Class 86 030719&utm_medium=email&utm_source=HAPv5f&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJ3b21iYXRvZmZhaXJib3VybmVAaG90bWFpbC5jby51ayIsICJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIkpHUWVYaCJ9

[MGR Hooper!]

10 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Hattons (other box shifters are available) have uploaded new photos of the second engineering prototype, which seems to have had the pantograph reworked.

 

I'm impressed, now advertising as early 2020 delivery.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=468&utm_campaign=Project Update - Heljan Class 86 030719&utm_medium=email&utm_source=HAPv5f&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJ3b21iYXRvZmZhaXJib3VybmVAaG90bWFpbC5jby51ayIsICJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIkpHUWVYaCJ9

They do indeed look far better. My faith in Heljan is increasing day by day. Well done to Ben Jones who I personally feel has taken Heljan much further now. The pantograph is a massive improvement.

How easy is it to convert these Class 86/0s into a Class 86/2, Class 86/4 or Class 86/6? Apart from the most obvious flexi-coil springs and MU/Jumper cables on the face of the locos, are there any other differences?

[No Decorum]

There seems to be a supply of flexicoil springing wrapped around the pantograph. 

[ThaneofFife]

Quote

 

I hope they get the model right.  it deserves to be a winner as the chassis is so good.   madness if they haven't made allowance to tool up for the flexi-coil 86s.

 

directional lighting is mentioned but no cab lights - these are fairly standard these days...….

 

and hopefully we wont see any dodgy blues or yellows in the liveries......

Edited July 5, 2019 by ThaneofFife

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, ThaneofFife said:

I hope they get the model right.  it deserves to be a winner as the chassis is so good.   madness if they haven't made allowance to tool up for the flexi-coil 86s.

 

directional lighting is mentioned but no cab lights - these are fairly standard these days...….

 

and hopefully we wont see any dodgy blues or yellows in the liveries......

And hopefully will be able to run at a scale 100mph, essential for large layouts.

[Padishar Creel]

Hallo,

Are there any manufacturers which produce the raised numbers and lion plaque which can be fitted to the as built versions? Heljan informed me these are just printed on

Thanks in advance 

es grüßt 

pc

[MGR Hooper!]

39 minutes ago, Padishar Creel said:

Hallo,

Are there any manufacturers which produce the raised numbers and lion plaque which can be fitted to the as built versions? Heljan informed me these are just printed on

Thanks in advance 

es grüßt 

pc

 

Maybe Steve at Railtec Transfers can be persuaded to do them as 3D decals, just like his highly praised and wonderful 3D nameplates? It will also be easier to apply.

[47164]

The sample looks a good improvement on the previous offering , I wonder if Ben aka Heljan can be persuaded to over produce the pantographs so allow us to replace previous offerings!

[MGR Hooper!]

10 hours ago, 47164 said:

The sample looks a good improvement on the previous offering , I wonder if Ben aka Heljan can be persuaded to over produce the pantographs so allow us to replace previous offerings!

@61661 what do you think Ben, would it be viable to produce a few extra Stone-Faiveley pantographs as a separate item to sell as a spare for those who want to kit-bash, replace etc.? I think it's a good idea.

[ThaneofFife]

cant remember if one is in the pipe but would like an 86/0 in BR blue TOPS with full yellow ends with multiple working jumper cables circa late 70s early 80s.  and in the blue and yellow that matches hornbys and bachmanns colours.   I have nightmares of seeing another model like the Dapol class 73s with their lemony yellows!

 

not sure what models 8654 and 8655 will be representing exactly...…..

 

did these also see renumbering into 86/3's in the 80s?   Will we see a 3 in one of the releases?

Edited July 6, 2019 by ThaneofFife

[Roy Langridge]

8 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

cant remember if one is in the pipe but would like an 86/0 in BR blue TOPS with full yellow ends with multiple working jumper cables circa late 70s early 80s.  and in the blue and yellow that matches hornbys and bachmanns colours.   I have nightmares of seeing another model like the Dapol class 73s with their lemony yellows!

 

But match which yellow? Don’t forget that the early yellow was less orange than that applied later on. I am convinced that some models representing early BR blue locos have actually used post-1985 yellow. 

 

Roy

[wombatofludham]

8 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

cant remember if one is in the pipe but would like an 86/0 in BR blue TOPS with full yellow ends with multiple working jumper cables circa late 70s early 80s.  and in the blue and yellow that matches hornbys and bachmanns colours.   I have nightmares of seeing another model like the Dapol class 73s with their lemony yellows!

 

not sure what models 8654 and 8655 will be representing exactly...…..

 

did these also see renumbering into 86/3's in the 80s?   Will we see a 3 in one of the releases?

The 86/3 began life as an 86/0 refitted with rubber wheels and with the speed raised to 100mph, but then were randomly fitted with multiple working cables, which meant that some were running with jumper cables and some without whilst carrying 86/3 numbering.  In addition, a lot of 86/0 and 86/3 types ran with cross arm pantographs, so if you want an 86/0 or 86/3 after about 1985, you need to trawl through flickr or reference books to see what fits the model.  In theory though the only visual difference between a non-jumper 86/0 and an 86/3 is the SAB bouncy wheel discs with the bolt heads.

 

I must admit I do wonder if one of the 86/0 models listed will be produced with plated over headcode boxes, and one without, 

[royaloak]

On 05/07/2019 at 09:30, cravensdmufan said:

And hopefully will be able to run at a scale 100mph, essential for large layouts.

<Pedant mode> If you buy a BR Blue one and are modelling from 1980 onwards, they were 'limited' to 75mph due to the damage the bogies were doing to the track <pedant mode off>

 

The 'limiting' consisting of changing the stickers in the cab and data panel from 100mph to 75mph, guess how often the 'limiting' was ignored when the locos were put on class ones or fast parcel trains!

[royaloak]

2 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

The 86/3 began life as an 86/0 refitted with rubber wheels and with the speed raised to 100mph, but then were randomly fitted with multiple working cables, which meant that some were running with jumper cables and some without whilst carrying 86/3 numbering.  In addition, a lot of 86/0 and 86/3 types ran with cross arm pantographs, so if you want an 86/0 or 86/3 after about 1985, you need to trawl through flickr or reference books to see what fits the model.  In theory though the only visual difference between a non-jumper 86/0 and an 86/3 is the SAB bouncy wheel discs with the bolt heads.

 

I must admit I do wonder if one of the 86/0 models listed will be produced with plated over headcode boxes, and one without, 

The 86/0 and 86/3 detail differences are an absolute minefield during that period.

[royaloak]

3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

But match which yellow? Don’t forget that the early yellow was less orange than that applied later on. I am convinced that some models representing early BR blue locos have actually used post-1985 yellow. 

 

Roy

I have recently taken pictures of 2 HST power cars with very different shades of yellow ends, there has always been variations in the shades of yellow applied by different works and depots.

[adb968008]

22 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

The 86/3 began life as an 86/0 refitted with rubber wheels and with the speed raised to 100mph, but then were randomly fitted with multiple working cables, which meant that some were running with jumper cables and some without whilst carrying 86/3 numbering.  In addition, a lot of 86/0 and 86/3 types ran with cross arm pantographs, so if you want an 86/0 or 86/3 after about 1985, you need to trawl through flickr or reference books to see what fits the model.  In theory though the only visual difference between a non-jumper 86/0 and an 86/3 is the SAB bouncy wheel discs with the bolt heads.

 

I must admit I do wonder if one of the 86/0 models listed will be produced with plated over headcode boxes, and one without, 

Was that to enable them to use the M6 as a diversionary route ?

 

AIUI SAB wheels had a rubber o ring squeezed between the wheel tyre and the wheel disc to reduce hammer blow. The wheel rim, tyres were not rubber.

 

Still if it means we can European style traction tyres (not Lima / Hornby of the 1980’s I add), then i’m all for it.

Edited July 7, 2019 by adb968008

[ThaneofFife]

23 hours ago, royaloak said:

<Pedant mode> If you buy a BR Blue one and are modelling from 1980 onwards, they were 'limited' to 75mph due to the damage the bogies were doing to the track <pedant mode off>

 

The 'limiting' consisting of changing the stickers in the cab and data panel from 100mph to 75mph, guess how often the 'limiting' was ignored when the locos were put on class ones or fast parcel trains!

some were limited to 80mph.  how true it was about the "re-gearing" I don't know. maybe that was true of those dedicated to freight only work but yes the others could find themselves back on class 1, 100mph timed duties...…..

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, ThaneofFife said:

some were limited to 80mph.  how true it was about the "re-gearing" I don't know. maybe that was true of those dedicated to freight only work but yes the others could find themselves back on class 1, 100mph timed duties...…..

I think (and stand ready to be corrected) the only one actually re-geared was 86608 when it was renumbered 86501, other than that it was a 'paper' exercise. 

[wombatofludham]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

AIUI SAB wheels had a rubber o ring squeezed between the wheel tyre and the wheel disc to reduce hammer blow. The wheel rim, tyres were not rubber.

 

Yes I know.  The wheels were effectively an outer rim of the tyre and flange, and an inner disc with a resilient rubber layer inserted between them, which was then bolted together which gave the distinctive circle of bolts around the rim.  Although the design used on the 86s was derived from the main line wheels used by SJ on their electric locos, a major user of resilient wheel technology are tramways where they help reduce the "rumble" effect caused by ground borne vibrations manifesting themselves as noise in building, which together with insulated track beds and speed restrictions allows modern tramways to live alongside some very sensitive users.  One of my many portmanteau responsibilities in my career was researching and setting the noise and vibration policy for the design of Midland Metro so I became weirdly interested in noise reduction technology such as resilient wheels.  It's quite clever that a design of wheel initially conceived for slow speed tramway use eventually found a second use as a means of reducing the impact of unsprung mass hammer blow in high speed traction.

[Wagonmaster]

On 05/07/2019 at 13:25, Padishar Creel said:

Hallo,

Are there any manufacturers which produce the raised numbers and lion plaque which can be fitted to the as built versions? Heljan informed me these are just printed on

Thanks in advance 

es grüßt 

pc

 

I believe Fox Transfers and/or Shawplan (can't remember where I got them from without checking) produce etched numbers and Lion suitable for the AL Series electrics. My AL1's, AL5's and retro detailed AL6's have them fitted. A tiny dab of Glue'n'glaze holds them on perfectly without the glue marks.

 

Spare 4mm scale Stone-Faiveley AMBR pantographs would be an excellent idea. I have tried Bachmann to no avail. Perhaps Heljan would be more helpful?

 

 

[m1a2lt]

'morning!

 

Does anyone know if the new Class 86 bodies will fit to the old Heljan Class 86 bodies? Bought a couple of the old ones a few years ago with a plan to match these with Hornby Class 86 bodies but with these new Class 86s available, I would rather just get the new bodies, upgrade them to ~early 90s 862xx and 864xxs. Thoughts?