KRModels announce a GT3 Model

[Hilux5972]

23 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

With respect, if the resin kit was any good then no one would be buying yours?

 

That’s not exactly true. I much prefer to buy rtr than kits, no matter how good the kits. I can build wagon kits, a basic coach kit maybe, but locos are far beyond my skill. I suspect many people may well be the same. 

[KR Models]

14 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

That’s not exactly true. I much prefer to buy rtr than kits, no matter how good the kits. I can build wagon kits, a basic coach kit maybe, but locos are far beyond my skill. I suspect many people may well be the same. 

 

The resin kit is what drove me to do an RTR version.  Even the kit instructions say that the chassis is not strictly correct and needs some heavy modification.  

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

The resin kit is what drove me to do an RTR version.  Even the kit instructions say that the chassis is not strictly correct and needs some heavy modification.  

 

Why if you know it's incorrect suggest it as an alterntive ?

On 09/06/2019 at 00:28, KR Models said:

 

Hi Stan,

The resin kit is still available if he wants to use that for kit building.  

 

 

Mike raised a question which might be of interest to many that don't model in OO.  There will have to be extra bodyshells manufactured to allow for those which will be damaged in the factory or in transit to their purchasers. Why not offer these to those who don't require the chassis ? 

On 08/06/2019 at 15:52, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

A bit of an off the wall question, but will there be any surplus/spare bodyshells available for those of us awkward sods who would like to go down alternative paths?

It's just that being a Yorkshireman I don't fancy chucking a complete set of mechanical underpinnings away!

 

http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/gt3page.html

 

Mike.

 

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Why if you know it's incorrect suggest it as an alterntive ?

 

Because the original poster said he had a chassis and was only looking for a shell, and thus the resin shell would be fine?

 

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Mike raised a question which might be of interest to many that don't model in OO.  There will have to be extra bodyshells manufactured to allow for those which will be damaged in the factory or in transit to their purchasers. Why not offer these to those who don't require the chassis ?

 

The majority of the cost of producing most models - the tooling - is in the shell.  In most cases the mechanism is a much smaller fraction of the costs of producing the model, thus for all intents and purposes the cost of buying "just a shell" would be equivalent to just buying the entire model.

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

5 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Because the original poster said he had a chassis and was only looking for a shell, and thus the resin shell would be fine?

 

 

The majority of the cost of producing most models - the tooling - is in the shell.  In most cases the mechanism is a much smaller fraction of the costs of producing the model, thus for all intents and purposes the cost of buying "just a shell" would be equivalent to just buying the entire model.

 

 

Which fails to explain why Hornby A3 or A4 bodies can be acquired for well under £20.

Very droll.

I suggest you read up on Bachmann or Model Rail regarding assembly costs and changing parts such as motors or sprung buffers.

They have both been very open about such matters.

There are valid reasons for not wanting to offer separate body shells, but that is another topic.

Bernard

[njee20]

5 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Because the original poster said he had a chassis and was only looking for a shell, and thus the resin shell would be fine?

 

 

The majority of the cost of producing most models - the tooling - is in the shell.  In most cases the mechanism is a much smaller fraction of the costs of producing the model, thus for all intents and purposes the cost of buying "just a shell" would be equivalent to just buying the entire model.

 

 

I’m not sure I buy that. I know dummies are said not to be markedly cheaper because the actual motor is a small part of the cost, but that’s very different to a body shell only. You can pick up Farish bodies for £25 or so on a £100 loco from spares stockists. I can’t believe they’re sold at a loss. 

 

Personally I don’t think it’s unreasonable to not offer bodyshells, but I don’t get why you wouldn’t say “offering bodyshells is a bit of a pain, as they’d need packaging and I don’t know how many we’d actually sell, could be a liability”. rather than vague comments about kits. 

[Stanley Melrose]

I made my comment on body-only availability simply because in a phone conversation with Bachmann Spares Department it became clear that Bachmann ensure there are extra bodies produced.  Once the 12month warranty period has expired and therefore any damaged parts replaced, they will supply bodies and related spares - admittedly these are not cheap but for the modeller adopting wider gauges, they are certainly cheaper than buying the complete model and trying to dispose of the 00 chassis.

 

It was on this basis I conjectured that KR Models might wish to follow suit.

 

Stan

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I think I'll draw a veil over the body only issue, it could get a little out of hand!

I am supportive of the fact that, for whatever reason, Keith doesn't want to go down the body only route, it's his baby and he can clothe it how he wishes.

 

Mike.

[cctransuk]

10 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

The resin kit is what drove me to do an RTR version.  Even the kit instructions say that the chassis is not strictly correct and needs some heavy modification.  

 

If you look elsewhere on RMweb, you will find that an authentic etched brass chassis kit was produced not too long ago, together with an etched body detailing kit; I produce a full set of transfers.

 

 

If you are capable of building a kit, an RTR GT3 is not required.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[njee20]

There’s capable and there’s capable. I can throw a kit together, but it’ll never be as good as RTR, particularly in the finishing and I’d replace kit built with RTR offerings on some things. 

 

Clearly this isn’t the case for everyone, and there are some superb kit built GT3s.

[chris p bacon]

6 hours ago, mdvle said:

The majority of the cost of producing most models - the tooling - is in the shell.  In most cases the mechanism is a much smaller fraction of the costs of producing the model, thus for all intents and purposes the cost of buying "just a shell" would be equivalent to just buying the entire model.

 

The tooling of the bodyside is the most expensive single item, but once created it has a life far in excess of the numbers of mouldings that a model manufacturer would require. Increasing the production run of bodies would be a negligable cost to the overall budget but would create a healthy income. Once tooled the body cost is a fraction of the chassis, it will be the addition of extra detail which will add to the cost but this could be supplied loose. I doubt we are talking hundreds, but If it were me I would create some extra bodies, or after the period of warranty, offer the surplus for sale.

 

 

 

 

[rorz101uk]

Just paid my second instalment! When the next up date likely to be? 

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Which fails to explain why Hornby A3 or A4 bodies can be acquired for well under £20.

 

Partially because the A3/A4 both outsell what will be a niche model by about 100x?  Because with that many models out there over the last decade+ their is an abundance of choice?

 

5 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I suggest you read up on Bachmann or Model Rail regarding assembly costs and changing parts such as motors or sprung buffers.

 

But the issue isn't assembly costs.

 

4 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

The tooling of the bodyside is the most expensive single item, but once created it has a life far in excess of the numbers of mouldings that a model manufacturer would require. Increasing the production run of bodies would be a negligable cost to the overall budget but would create a healthy income.

 

What healthy income?  We have an example above where the expectation is that these extra bodies would only "cost" £20 or less.

 

Unlike the above example of an A3/A4, the GT3 will sell in very small numbers and so x people switching from spending £185 for a model to £20 for a shell could mean the difference between covering the costs of the model or a loss, hence the reason you can't just say it is just a negligible cost.  And if x is really small then it simply isn't worth the hassle.

[njee20]

For clarity I didn't detail an expectation, purely an example to counter the idea that a bodyshell on its own would be basically the same price as a complete model, which I don't accept.

 

I also do not think it's a healthy income for selling bodies, I doubt you'd get 1% of people wanting a body only and given the volumes are small anyway I fully understand why it may not be a viable or desirable prospect.

[chris p bacon]

6 hours ago, mdvle said:

What healthy income?  We have an example above where the expectation is that these extra bodies would only "cost" £20 or less.

 

Unlike the above example of an A3/A4, the GT3 will sell in very small numbers and so x people switching from spending £185 for a model to £20 for a shell could mean the difference between covering the costs of the model or a loss, hence the reason you can't just say it is just a negligible cost.  And if x is really small then it simply isn't worth the hassle.

 

I did not quote a figure of £20 for a body shell, I merely pointed out you were incorrect in your assumption that the cost of the body was more than the chassis.

 

I am also not suggesting a run of 1000's of bodyshells but offering the surplus bodyshells which will have to be produced to cover damaged ones when the warranty period is over. The reason I said a 'Healthy income' is that surplus bodyshells will be paid for by the crowdfunders as part of the manufacturing process and would be written off.  The profit is not for the crowdfunders but for the commisioner.

 

I would point out that it is unlikely that someone with the skills to build a P4 chassis is going to purchase a £185 (projected cost) locomotive and throw the chassis away,  so has no real bearing on the number of funders required.  As for 'Small numbers' for production of the GT3 I'd suggest that if there isn't 1000 funders then it is unviable.

 

11 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

The tooling of the bodyside is the most expensive single item, but once created it has a life far in excess of the numbers of mouldings that a model manufacturer would require. Increasing the production run of bodies would be a negligable cost to the overall budget but would create a healthy income. Once tooled the body cost is a fraction of the chassis, it will be the addition of extra detail which will add to the cost but this could be supplied loose. I doubt we are talking hundreds, but If it were me I would create some extra bodies, or after the period of warranty, offer the surplus for sale.

 

[cctransuk]

55 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

I am also not suggesting a run of 1000's of bodyshells but offering the surplus bodyshells which will have to be produced to cover damaged ones when the warranty period is over.

 

 

I doubt that any extra bodyshells are produced to cover damaged ones - just extra complete models to act as a source of any spare part that is needed to repair models that are returned / rejected by retailers or purchasers.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[KR Models]

This question extra bodyshells seams to have raised some peoples blood pressure.  The warranty will work if you have a damaged body shell, then we will collect it and fully replace it.  Because as a rule something else may be damaged and just exchanging the body may not solve all the issues.  The big manufacturers produce extra because they can and it helps with in-shop quality control.  We will have parts and spares for warranty purposes.  

[KR Models]

13 hours ago, rorz101uk said:

Just paid my second instalment! When the next up date likely to be? 

 

If you ordered the sound version the next installment will be August, and the DCC ready version November.  

[chris p bacon]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I doubt that any extra bodyshells are produced to cover damaged ones - just extra complete models to act as a source of any spare part that is needed to repair models that are returned / rejected by retailers or purchasers.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

It depends on the contract that is negotiated with the factory.  

 

For example a  production run of 1000 models is ordered, depending on the complexity and amount of handfinishing required the factory will produce 1100* bodyshells and enough components for 1050 chassis.  At the end of production you have 1000 finished models and either a pool of spares or fully finished models to cover warranty repairs. If taken as spares there may be 80 shells or just 30,  at the end of the warranty period I was merely suggesting that these could be sold on as there is no point in holding on to stock. 

 

*The contract I was part of had a higher possibility of damage during assembly than the chassis, hence the difference in numbers.

[96701]

On 11/06/2019 at 09:20, cctransuk said:

 

If you look elsewhere on RMweb, you will find that an authentic etched brass chassis kit was produced not too long ago, together with an etched body detailing kit; I produce a full set of transfers.

 

 

If you are capable of building a kit, an RTR GT3 is not required.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I have all the bits in a tin. The thing that worries me is that the body is 4mm too short for the chassis, and I'm a bit frightened by the prospect of taking a saw to a £55.00 body and then relying on my skills to insert a seamless 4mm piece from who knows where? 

[cctransuk]

The body is indeed 4mm. too short; my solution, and an alternative, can be found at

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited June 12, 2019 by cctransuk

[96701]

17 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

The body is indeed 4mm. too short; my solution, and an alternative, can be found at

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

John,

 

"Very noticeable is the two-tone loco body, the result of splicing parts of two mouldings together to make good the 4mm. short length of the moulding as provided. I think that the result is well worthwhile, giving the long, sleek look of the prototype as opposed to the slightly 'dumpy' appearance of the standard moulding.

 

I was fortunate enough to be able to barter for the second moulding, but in the absence of a spare body I would cut the moulding in two; trace the outline of the body section onto 2mm. thick plastic card; and cut out two U-shaped packing pieces.

 

If the packing pieces were slightly undersized on the outside and oversized on the inside one could be superglued to each body section, and the two extended body sections could be fixed together with solvent, in true alignment. The external shallow gap would be filled with Milliput, sanded back flush; and the interior ridge would be cut back flush with a burr mounted in a mini-drill."

 

I've read that bit before and whilst I am in no position to barter for a second body, nor wish to buy one, it is the proposal in the second two paragraphs that bothers me, because get it wrong, and I'm back to buying another £55.00 body.

[Colin_McLeod]

On 11/06/2019 at 09:20, cctransuk said:

 

 

 

If you are capable of building a kit, an RTR GT3 is not required.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

John but not everyone is. 

[cctransuk]

10 hours ago, 96701 said:

I've read that bit before and whilst I am in no position to barter for a second body, nor wish to buy one, it is the proposal in the second two paragraphs that bothers me, because get it wrong, and I'm back to buying another £55.00 body.

 

It takes a bit of 'bottle' the first time, but it is just basic cutting-and-shutting.

 

The good thing is that, if you choose a relatively blank location to make the cut, it isn't critical that it is at exactly 90 degrees. You will have two halves which, if extended by a single 2mm. layer of plastic card each side of the cut, will fit back together perfectly.

 

It is not difficult to trim back the extending layer, flush with the resin casting, once the glue has set, and Miliput is very forgiving when it comes to hiding minor errors.

 

Now and again when modelling, it's necessary to take a deep breath; reach for the cutting tool; and just do it! It really is the only way to extend one's modelling repertoire and skill-set.

 

Failing that, why not ask the manufacturer if he has a reject casting that you can buy cheap?

 

Regards,

John.

[96701]

20 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

It takes a bit of 'bottle' the first time, but it is just basic cutting-and-shutting.

 

The good thing is that, if you choose a relatively blank location to make the cut, it isn't critical that it is at exactly 90 degrees. You will have two halves which, if extended by a single 2mm. layer of plastic card each side of the cut, will fit back together perfectly.

 

It is not difficult to trim back the extending layer, flush with the resin casting, once the glue has set, and Miliput is very forgiving when it comes to hiding minor errors.

 

Now and again when modelling, it's necessary to take a deep breath; reach for the cutting tool; and just do it! It really is the only way to extend one's modelling repertoire and skill-set.

 

Failing that, why not ask the manufacturer if he has a reject casting that you can buy cheap?

 

Regards,

John.

Last question please John and I'll let the thread get back on topic. Is it better to cut and shut before making great big holes for the body etches?