Jump to content
 

KRModels announce a GT3 Model


micklner
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Gold
17 minutes ago, locoman462 said:

I am at a loss to understand why the keyboard warriors / assassins out there, having made their choice not to invest in this project, seem to think that they have a  God given right to continue posting negative comments regarding everything KR Models say or do.

 

On an open forum you don't need a 'god given right'  I also don't see the 'negative' posts that you do.   I do see genuine questions about the production of a model where very little information and drawings still exist and as such is not an easy project.  

23 minutes ago, locoman462 said:

You are hardly showing any evidence of British fair play and it would seem that you are wishing the project to fail so you can shout out loud 'I told you so'!  Will you still be around and big enough to say 'Well done, I got it wrong' when a good model of GT3 arrives next year?

A model will succeed or fail on the merits and quality of the model.

 

23 minutes ago, locoman462 said:

Give KR Models a break and keep your non invested comments to yourselves.

If a manufacturer uses an open forum as free advertising, then they are open to questioning by the members. Who are you to decide whether someone who has invested or not, is able to comment.

God save us from self appointed moderators.

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, locoman462 said:

 

Give KR Models a break and keep your non invested comments to yourselves.

 

Your negative attitude will hardly encourage future investors in our hobby.

 

So if I haven't invested I shouldn't comment? Even if I have what I have to add may get me to invest in future or may get an answer that makes other willing to invest?

As for negative attitudes and investments its exactly that an "investment" until models pass into peoples hands is business and if people aren't happy or comfortable with something or don't feel they are getting the answer to warrant them handing over cash there will be negativity!

Lets look at other recent faux pass by others and people said the don't "if you can't be positive go away line", and things aren't playing out so well there it seems!

 

But onto my where I stand, right I am not going to invest as it't one of them models where I would not go out of my way to get one more if they exist (which in n gauge so far looks questionable) then why not I like the occasional niche and unusual model!

 

So @KR Models please don't take offense at this I am hoping you take this as constructive criticisms rather than just trying to slam you down! But things did ring alarm bells with myself when this thread came to pass in November and I have kept quiet wanting to see how things pan out through interest! So here are my points:

 

So to start, as pointed out you started asking for EOI on Facebook in May last year but very little people heard of it until November on here and within days things turned negative on here as you hadn't made a presence on the forums so no one had a clue about you. This has mean't and rightly so if people are asking for money we would want to know more about who they are and the outcome of this had unintended consequences! One tool they used was image search from your picture from the website and they found it in multiple places relating to various aspects of your life (which you have answered too) but for a lot of people it asked more questions than it answered.

 

So you have come out as an unknown and there were lots of questions on here which remained mostly unanswered until March when you joined which by this stage due to things going largely unanswered made potential customers turn away. So prevent that now you are on here for any future project I would say it may be advisable to hit Facebook and forums like this at the same time so everyone quickly grasps who you are and what you are looking to do, it gives us as potential investors in your business a warm fuzzy feeling knowing who we are dealing with.

Also your picture on the website, while it is professional and I have no doubt it is you having seen you at Warley myself for those who haven't, I would suggest you change it for one that hasn't already been used on the internet as this could has did raise questions, this been as very little people knew you "Is it one of those stock pictures marketing firms can pay to use?". I would suggest it may be worth changing it to something new that hasn't been online so if people do an image search it comes back to you website only.

 

The address you are using while appreciate you want to keep your private address that, PO boxes do raise even more concerns I understand how they work in Canada as I have worked there (In Alberta near Medicine Hat) and my work use a PO Box, but if you look at other manufacturers they all have a physical address. The reason i say this if you link it into the point I make about your picture if you add them together it makes alarm bells ring and people start to wonder are you one of the African princes where if you send them some cash you will get access to that inheritance from the family you never had! Where as if you have an actual physical address it soothes them concerns straight away.

 

Final one and i say this with a recent incident / faux pass which has not done the whole crowd funding in the modeling world any favours! You recently posted about already looking at follow on models which you are looking at, I would possibly suggest that until you have something physical of the GT3 not to go to far with it other whys comparisons may start to be drawn with the recent faux pass of "announcing lots but nothing delivered". That just opens you up to a whole world of problems that you don't want to have to worry about!

 

As I say I am not trying to slam you down but be more constructive about issues that I have had as well as others who have been more err.... vocal in less constructive ways! As I say until until people get the models in hands it's more a business investment rather than a hobby investment and the more feathers that can be soothed the better for you!

And I do wish this project the best of luck, although it looks like the OO version is nicely on its way!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 04/05/2019 at 20:06, KR Models said:

I would just like to repeat, after recent events, that we have no connection with DJ Models.  The GT3 project is moving along wonderfully.  The CAD drawings will be out by the end of May and the tooling begins in July.  Delivery is expected April/May 2020.

 

Chinese New Year is January 25th, 2020.  Given that factories will close down for around two weeks and delivery/transit time is around six weeks,  is not the April/May delivery time a little tight?  I presume that you may be referring to delivery to Canada or is it to the UK?  What are the tax implications for the consumer of either a Canada or UK delivery?  I assume that production would be post-the New Year leaving precious little time to get the loco to market as planned.  "Delivery" implies to the customer or are you referring to instock at a wharehouse facility (where?)?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, locoman462 said:

I am at a loss to understand why the keyboard warriors / assassins out there, having made their choice not to invest in this project, seem to think that they have a  God given right to continue posting negative comments regarding everything KR Models say or do.

You are hardly showing any evidence of British fair play and it would seem that you are wishing the project to fail so you can shout out loud 'I told you so'!  Will you still be around and big enough to say 'Well done, I got it wrong' when a good model of GT3 arrives next year?

Give KR Models a break and keep your non invested comments to yourselves.

 

Your negative attitude will hardly encourage future investors in our hobby.

 

Before you rant further, go back and read the torrent of similar postings from the early days of DJM. David Jones had a cohort of supporters who were convinced that he was going to revolutionise model railway production; not surprisingly, given some of the ambitious and optimistic claims that he made.

 

Anyone sounding even the slightest note of caution was accused of destructive behaviour and was denigrated as being a supporter of the Big Two.

 

There is a fine line between wanting something to happen, and being blind to obviously over-optimistic predictions and evidence of inexperience.

 

If the GT3 model comes to fruition, to the standard of, say, the Kernow D600; within a timescale reasonably close to that currently predicted, I will gladly recant my scepticism and congratulate KR Models.

 

In the meantime, I will continue to sound a note of caution whenever I read anything that seems to be unlikely or impracticable.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

  • Like 4
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Before you rant further, go back and read the torrent of similar postings from the early days of DJM. David Jones had a cohort of supporters who were convinced that he was going to revolutionise model railway production; not surprisingly, given some of the ambitious and optimistic claims that he made.

 

I'm sure similar posting from supporters convinced of good things were also made in the early days of Revolution Trains and Accurascale/Irish Railway Models. I don't recall either Revolution or Accurascale prodiving full CVs before asking for money. Fortuntately, those claims proved to be well founded. Hopefully KR Models will be successful.

 

Perhaps if KR Models had come to the forum & Facebook with more complete CAD and a better introduction (as IRM did) then we may not have seen quite so many negative comments. Either way, a lesson for KR Models next project and anyone else wanting to make the switch from consumer to producer.

 

Steven B.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 21/05/2019 at 05:52, polybear said:

In addition, the Cooper Craft saga has made many cautious on RMWeb (understandably so, as many have lost money) when it comes to dealing with Small Suppliers; being a new, previously unknown Supplier (and not based in the UK) only adds to the caution.

 

I am not aware of this issue, what happened?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please excuse my naivety of not being on here sooner, for which I humbly apologise.  That being said, the whole process of being a new entity in the world of modeling has been a very sharp learning curve.  I was on the other side of the hobby, the outside looking in.

 

Research is everything, to know if a product will succeed.  So to produce a CAD drawing before you even know if the model will sell is business suicide.   You would invest all that money for it to fail, so it's done slowly with as much free research as possible.  So yes you may see posts of future models we would like to bring to market, but if there is insufficient interest, then it dies right there.

  • Like 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

I'm sure similar posting from supporters convinced of good things were also made in the early days of Revolution Trains and Accurascale/Irish Railway Models. I don't recall either Revolution or Accurascale prodiving full CVs before asking for money. Fortuntately, those claims proved to be well founded. Hopefully KR Models will be successful.

 

Perhaps if KR Models had come to the forum & Facebook with more complete CAD and a better introduction (as IRM did) then we may not have seen quite so many negative comments. Either way, a lesson for KR Models next project and anyone else wanting to make the switch from consumer to producer.

 

Steven B.

 

The difference is we knew who Revolution Trains and Accurascale/IRM were. As we did with DJ Models.

 

IRM have been involved in Irish railway modelling for years. DJ was employed by Dapol. And the other one has the bloke off the telly involved.

 

 

 

Jason

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
7 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 

Chinese New Year is January 25th, 2020.  Given that factories will close down for around two weeks and delivery/transit time is around six weeks,  is not the April/May delivery time a little tight?  I presume that you may be referring to delivery to Canada or is it to the UK?  What are the tax implications for the consumer of either a Canada or UK delivery?  I assume that production would be post-the New Year leaving precious little time to get the loco to market as planned.  "Delivery" implies to the customer or are you referring to instock at a wharehouse facility (where?)?

As someone who likes quirky prototypes the GT3 appeals to me but for now I will not be ordering

 

Yet again someone has asked for info about where the models will ship from, not unreasonably as it would make a large difference to the price if people had to pay VAT and a handling charge on top. It is to my mind silly that this question has been answered at least once on this thread but this basic info is not on the website where orders are taken

 

If KR Models wants me to trust them with my money they should be up front about the models basic spec and ordering info. I don't doubt their good intentions, but it implies to me that they are lacking in the commercial acumen necessary to bring the model to fruition 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The difference is we knew who Revolution Trains and Accurascale/IRM were. As we did with DJ Models.

 

IRM have been involved in Irish railway modelling for years. DJ was employed by Dapol. And the other one has the bloke off the telly involved.

 

Jason

I think the more simple view is that IRM and then as Accurascale began with wagons so less individual risk, also don't you pay on completion of the model with Accurascale so less risk.  RevolutioN got themselves a partner in Rapido who were well known in modelling circles which added weight to their business.

 

Dave Jones proves that simply being known is not enough.

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 22/05/2019 at 14:00, GeoffBird said:

I saw the loco at an Exhibition at Marylebone (I think) just after it was built.  Does anyone knowq of any books about it with photos, Details of ist operations etc

 

As has been pointed out there isn't a great deal of information about it and photographs are rare. There have been a few articles in magazines about it, but no books that I know of.

 

This has a couple of pages on it. Worth a look if you like experimental trains. Available from WHSmith if you want a look before buying.

 

https://www.classicmagazines.co.uk/product/5536/bookazine-x-trains

 

 

 

Jason

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
On 23/05/2019 at 14:52, KR Models said:

Please excuse my naivety of not being on here sooner, for which I humbly apologise.  That being said, the whole process of being a new entity in the world of modeling has been a very sharp learning curve.  I was on the other side of the hobby, the outside looking in.

 

is there a connection between Scalecast and KRModels?

http://www.brmna.org/journal.pdf

last advert last page (Autumn 2016)

 

https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/new-products/2015/09/new-model-trains-for-the-week-of-september-10-2015

(September 2015)- halfway down under “scalecast”.

 

https://www.transplo.com/CA/Saint-Albert/508884535945557/ScaleCast-Mouldings---North-America

seems to be current to end of year 2017..

 

All share the same phone number as this page shows...

https://krmodels.co.uk/contact

196B67EF-9282-4AE1-A73D-227B5D9A7B8E.png.9a815744fb63bdadcf868ea636098ce3.png

 

But the website referred to from the above links, shows womens clothing

http://www.scalecast.ca/

 

Is it related to Scalecast.co.uk ?

 

forgive me for looking, but I couldnt find a registered business in Alberta or UK under  KRmodels or Scalecast, I assume a company exists and that tax is being paid somewhere, Can you help me find a business entity or is it  private ?

 

I checked here..

http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/find-if-business-is-licenced.cfm

And here...

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=Kr+models

 

For example fellow Canadian model railway company Rapido trains can be found online, in Canada and UK.

https://beta.canadasbusinessregistries.ca/search/results?search={Rapido trains}&status=Active

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11390655

 

Fully respect ones right to privacy, but that can cause questions by potential customers as to why, and thus undermine potential sales, leading to revenue loss.

Edited by adb968008
Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite common for "dead" websites to be hijacked.

 

If Scalecast was just a small business then I doubt it would need to be registered for tax. If Canada is anything like the UK then you need to have a turnover of many thousands before needing to pay tax. Many even manage to get under the VAT threshold, I know Connoisseur Models do and I suspect most small suppliers that many of us deal with do as well.

 

 

 

Jason

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 27/05/2019 at 10:22, Littlethorpe said:

 

The N Gauge EOI option now seems to have disappeared completely.

 

Only temporally while we work on the new website.  We really want to see the GT3 in N and O gauges.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

On ‎21‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 15:31, Steamport Southport said:

Okay, if I posted this on Facebook what would your reaction be? Would you think it's genuine, an enthusiastic amateur or a con? Would you give me money seeing as you don't know who I am or what experience I have (I've never posted any photographs of my modelling for example)?

 

Hello everyone.

 

I really like The Great Bear. If you send me £200 you can have one.

 

My name is JB Models and I live in Nigeria

 

 

Without being funny. That's similar to what I was seeing. As pointed out above, first impressions count.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Be careful. JB Models as a brand actually exists. They produce 1/76th scale military mdels in plastic kits.

https://www.scalemates.com/brands/jb-models--1318

 

Many have now appeared under the Airfix brand.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 14:04, KR Models said:

 

I am not aware of this issue, what happened?

Just a perfect illustration of the point I made earlier about your lack of knowledge of the UK market.

if you could just get it into your head that people are not being critical for the sake of it, but rather they are trying to offer assistance, you would find people more willing to accept you..

Bernard

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 29/05/2019 at 01:30, Bernard Lamb said:

Just a perfect illustration of the point I made earlier about your lack of knowledge of the UK market.

if you could just get it into your head that people are not being critical for the sake of it, but rather they are trying to offer assistance, you would find people more willing to accept you..

Bernard

 

That's a little harsh

  • Agree 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
On 23/05/2019 at 14:52, KR Models said:

Please excuse my naivety of not being on here sooner, for which I humbly apologise.  That being said, the whole process of being a new entity in the world of modeling has been a very sharp learning curve.  I was on the other side of the hobby, the outside looking in.

 

After the post above which indicated that there was no prior experience of being either a retailer or commisioner and effectively asking for some latitude, a detailed question was posed (below)

 

On 24/05/2019 at 14:41, adb968008 said:

 

is there a connection between Scalecast and KRModels?

http://www.brmna.org/journal.pdf

last advert last page (Autumn 2016)

 

https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/new-products/2015/09/new-model-trains-for-the-week-of-september-10-2015

(September 2015)- halfway down under “scalecast”.

 

https://www.transplo.com/CA/Saint-Albert/508884535945557/ScaleCast-Mouldings---North-America

seems to be current to end of year 2017..

 

All share the same phone number as this page shows...

https://krmodels.co.uk/contact

196B67EF-9282-4AE1-A73D-227B5D9A7B8E.png.9a815744fb63bdadcf868ea636098ce3.png

 

But the website referred to from the above links, shows womens clothing

http://www.scalecast.ca/

 

Is it related to Scalecast.co.uk ?

 

forgive me for looking, but I couldnt find a registered business in Alberta or UK under  KRmodels or Scalecast, I assume a company exists and that tax is being paid somewhere, Can you help me find a business entity or is it  private ?

 

I checked here..

http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/find-if-business-is-licenced.cfm

And here...

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=Kr+models

 

For example fellow Canadian model railway company Rapido trains can be found online, in Canada and UK.

https://beta.canadasbusinessregistries.ca/search/results?search={Rapido trains}&status=Active

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11390655

 

Fully respect ones right to privacy, but that can cause questions by potential customers as to why, and thus undermine potential sales, leading to revenue loss.

 

Allowing for the time difference between continents there will understandably be a period of time before a reply (of sorts) is posted, but after 6 days and 2 visits to the site we have the sum total of these 2 replies.

 

Drumming up interest in future projects

 

On 28/05/2019 at 21:24, KR Models said:

Only temporally while we work on the new website.  We really want to see the GT3 in N and O gauges.  

and

4 hours ago, KR Models said:

 

That's a little harsh

 in reply to some advice.

 

I am starting to notice a certain disdain for questions from investors and potential investors when 'more difficult' questions are posed, which on past experience does not bode well for the future. 

  • Agree 4
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

After the post above which indicated that there was no prior experience of being either a retailer or commisioner and effectively asking for some latitude, a detailed question was posed (below)

 

 

Allowing for the time difference between continents there will understandably be a period of time before a reply (of sorts) is posted, but after 6 days and 2 visits to the site we have the sum total of these 2 replies.

 

Drumming up interest in future projects

 

and

 in reply to some advice.

 

I am starting to notice a certain disdain for questions from investors and potential investors when 'more difficult' questions are posed, which on past experience does not bode well for the future. 

 

I do have a business license for my registered address, which I am not sharing.  I do not need to register with Companies House as I'm a sole proprietor.   I haven't filed taxes in the UK cause I'm a non-resident of the UK.  I have filed taxes since 2009 here in Alberta.  Scalecast Mouldings was mine in North America, but it was more of a hobby than a business but has long since gone.  

  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, KR Models said:

 

I do have a business license for my registered address, which I am not sharing.  

 

And that for me is a problem.  

 

Here I own a limited company as well as being a sole trader for another business, I also sell some items (etches) I've produced for myself. I give full details of who I am and where, so that  should there be any difficulties I can be easily traced by any debtors/creditors or others that may want to contact me.

 

The situation we have is that you are an unknown entity in another country, you have no track record in commissioning/manufacturing and selling across 3 continents and you want funders to hand over in excess of £100,000.  But while asking for this funding (interest free and non refundable) you wish to keep anonymity for yourself and question why some funders might go looking for you.

 

Honesty In business is a valuable commodity, and being open to questions is a boost to customer confidence. I don't think you've got off to a good start (in some areas)  but it is not irreversible. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Honesty In business is a valuable commodity, and being open to questions is a boost to customer confidence. I don't think you've got off to a good start (in some areas)  but it is not irreversible.

 

Putting a name and maybe the business address in the signature in every posting would be a good step for me.

 

To find out KR means Keith Revell you have to go to the website (which has a.co.uk address by the way despite not being resident in the UK) and click along to About Us.

It's not trying to be mean, it's simply trying to find out I might be dealing with.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I thought if you were selling in the UK then you have to disclose a business address on your website?

 

to me the fact you’re in Canada is material, and it feels like you’re trying to obfuscate that. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...