KRModels announce a GT3 Model

[Metr0Land]

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Maybe not, but you'll be 12 months adrift from your first projected delivery date and a considerable amount of time after customers fulfilled their payment obligation, which fully funded the model.

 

And the timescale for the Bachmann 94xx is?  (Admittedly monies not paid upfront to Bachmann but in some cases paid to retailers)

[Colin_McLeod]

[The Stationmaster]

There are of course delays with all sorts of models and sometimes those delays, for various reasons roll on over years, literally.  But delays after manufacturing work has been shown to have started (with photos of it going on) and likely delivery dates have been given (obviously based on work which can be seen to be in progress) are rather less common - almost to the point of being unusual.  It is clear from KR's post that - to use their own words 'something' in the production process has 'gone wrong'.   From what we have seen in the past it is not at all common for this to happen after a satisfactory, fully decorated, EP model has ben sent out by the factory and accepted by the commissioning client.  Usually delays after that stage occur because the factory doesn't have available production slots or if something was unsatisfactory in the EP model or decoration changes have to be made (there is another reason which I won't mention because in this case the model has already been fully funded).

 

So definitely - delays happen and models sit in development for extended periods and that is usually down to lack of resources for design and development or lack of manufacturing slots.  Bachmann is of course the most frequently quoted example of this - where delays have generally been due to resource problems at the factory - and of course others, such as the Kernow LSWR road van have sat in the development pile for a long time because resources have been devoted to other projects.   But I must admit that delays where production work has been shown to have commenced are unusual although delays where that stage hasn't commenced are not uncommon (the Bachmann 94XX being an example in that respect).

 

KR are a new company, concern starting from the ground up and the only reputation they have is the one they are going to develop for themselves.  So far, for whatever reason, they have delivered nothing although they have shown a satisfactorily operating, decorated. EP model in the shape of the GT3 - which would indicate to me that  subject to getting production slots it was ready to roll.  And that was in fact followed by photographic evidence that work was underway, then nothing until this week when we are told that an undefined something has 'gone wrong..  Hardly surprising that there should be speculation with a lack of explanation of what has 'gone wrong'

 

Looking elsewhere at the development of reputation one way in which we assess this is by looking at published views of CADs.  Now, speaking from direct experience in this respect,  CADs can and do include errors and they can mislead those inexperienced in the viewing of CADs, or knowing little about production constraints, to make false assumptions.  In which respect anybody showing their CADs needs to take care over what they are opening to public view.  Yet within a short time of publishing the CADs two serious and very obvious errors have been pointed out on the Consett ore hoppers.  Yes it's easy to miss things but to get incorrectly arranged air tanks connected to the brake cylinders on a vacuum braked wagon suggests a lack of research and care which is rather disheartening to say the least, especially when the information is readily available should one care to look for it.  Not so easy when information is hard to find but in this case even a search on RMweb would have found enough to avoid those errors.

 

I appreciate that KR are new to the game and that learning curves can be steep but that is part of life in commissioning and developing models and care and openness in the end pay dividends.  If KR were to offer a GWR 4-6-0 'County' - which I for one would love to see and need for my layout scenario - I really would think a lot more than twice before putting any money where my mouth is until I have seen a fully developed CAD and running EP samples.  Sorry but in order to sell things you need reputation and regrettably so far things aren't going too well in that respect. Once you have delivered a top notch GT3 that runs well you're on the road to building your reputation and that is now what you need to do.

[chris p bacon]

11 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Quite evident that some people have a fetish to bash KRM.... Delays are all too common. One would think that's common knowledge by now?

 

but at the supposed stage that KR are at with production underway they are not common at all.

 

7 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I was going to say "There's always one." but it appears that there are two! 

 

 

Is no one allowed a different opinion ?

 

 

6 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Initially, I was very cautious but I’ve paid for one now. I’ll go so far as to say that it would have been nice to be told about the delay a little sooner than about two weeks before the latest delivery date but I don’t want to be unduly critical about that. KR is new and we’ve been kept reasonably well informed. Contrast it with Heljan’s O2s, where there is very little news, and Bachmann, where there is no information at all about what’s cooking until three months before a new model’s appearance.

 

Heljan and Bachmann don't ask you to fund a model in advance.

 

5 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

 

And the timescale for the Bachmann 94xx is?  (Admittedly monies not paid upfront to Bachmann but in some cases paid to retailers)

 

 

4 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

I'm always surprised when someone who had a poor experience of crowdfunding, and had to rely on a credit card refund sticks their fingers in their ears and sings 'la la la nothings happening everythings wonderful'  and calls anyone with a different opinion a troll. Rather than doing that, try thinking for one minute that maybe someone is a little better informed than you are.  

 

Stand back and look for one minute at the progress of KR, several projects announced with deposits taken and in the case of GT3 fully funded and under way with a increasingly variable delivery date.   Of those other projects 1 wagon was announced with a fanfare and then promptly disappeared, a poor CAD was presented with many faults but the clincher was a lack of research which would have revealed a much bigger issue precluding production.

Last night another wagon was announced and within a short space of time an experienced modeller pointed out that the underframe was fantasy. That model is supposedly 'in tooling' with delivery slot for Q1 2021 and a fixed price.  The Chineses factories will certainly amend and update tooling but it all comes at a cost, that cost can be avoided with better research.

Edited October 8, 2020 by chris p bacon
Grammar

[rembrow]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

There are of course delays with all sorts of models and sometimes those delays, for various reasons roll on over years, literally.  But delays after manufacturing work has been shown to have started (with photos of it going on) and likely delivery dates have been given (obviously based on work which can be seen to be in progress) are rather less common - almost to the point of being unusual.  It is clear from KR's post that - to use their own words 'something' in the production process has 'gone wrong'.   From what we have seen in the past it is not at all common for this to happen after a satisfactory, fully decorated, EP model has ben sent out by the factory and accepted by the commissioning client.  Usually delays after that stage occur because the factory doesn't have available production slots or if something was unsatisfactory in the EP model or decoration changes have to be made (there is another reason which I won't mention because in this case the model has already been fully funded).

 

So definitely - delays happen and models sit in development for extended periods and that is usually down to lack of resources for design and development or lack of manufacturing slots.  Bachmann is of course the most frequently quoted example of this - where delays have generally been due to resource problems at the factory - and of course others, such as the Kernow LSWR road van have sat in the development pile for a long time because resources have been devoted to other projects.   But I must admit that delays where production work has been shown to have commenced are unusual although delays where that stage hasn't commenced are not uncommon (the Bachmann 94XX being an example in that respect).

 

KR are a new company, concern starting from the ground up and the only reputation they have is the one they are going to develop for themselves.  So far, for whatever reason, they have delivered nothing although they have shown a satisfactorily operating, decorated. EP model in the shape of the GT3 - which would indicate to me that  subject to getting production slots it was ready to roll.  And that was in fact followed by photographic evidence that work was underway, then nothing until this week when we are told that an undefined something has 'gone wrong..  Hardly surprising that there should be speculation with a lack of explanation of what has 'gone wrong'

 

Looking elsewhere at the development of reputation one way in which we assess this is by looking at published views of CADs.  Now, speaking from direct experience in this respect,  CADs can and do include errors and they can mislead those inexperienced in the viewing of CADs, or knowing little about production constraints, to make false assumptions.  In which respect anybody showing their CADs needs to take care over what they are opening to public view.  Yet within a short time of publishing the CADs two serious and very obvious errors have been pointed out on the Consett ore hoppers.  Yes it's easy to miss things but to get incorrectly arranged air tanks connected to the brake cylinders on a vacuum braked wagon suggests a lack of research and care which is rather disheartening to say the least, especially when the information is readily available should one care to look for it.  Not so easy when information is hard to find but in this case even a search on RMweb would have found enough to avoid those errors.

 

I appreciate that KR are new to the game and that learning curves can be steep but that is part of life in commissioning and developing models and care and openness in the end pay dividends.  If KR were to offer a GWR 4-6-0 'County' - which I for one would love to see and need for my layout scenario - I really would think a lot more than twice before putting any money where my mouth is until I have seen a fully developed CAD and running EP samples.  Sorry but in order to sell things you need reputation and regrettably so far things aren't going too well in that respect. Once you have delivered a top notch GT3 that runs well you're on the road to building your reputation and that is now what you need to do.

It's not that unusual for faults to be discovered in models after manufacturing has started. There have been two that were reported here in the last month, Dapol's mogul has been held back after production, due to an error which requires correction, delaying by 5-6 weeks, so quite comparable with what might have happened here. Accurascale has also shown graphic photos of one of their newly produced bogie hopper wagons, in ARC livery, with bowed sides, which now needs the bodies replacing, delay by up to 2 months. Hornby has had several models in recent years, which reached the UK and distributed, before errors were found, Class 800s with bogie pivot problems, a Battle of Britain produced with the wrong type of tender, a Class 60 with the sector logo printed in the wrong place. Apologies if it makes you wince, but a certain GWR 0-6-0 tank engine with non existent splashers moulded on to the footplate. I also recall Bachmann having a nightmare with their production of the first run of Porthole coaches, where first some of the produced tools were rejected, leading to an 18 month delay and then when produced, the brake third, I think, was rejected on arrival in UK, due to a printing error. So these are my immediate recollections and it happens quite regularly. We don't know if there is a production issue that needs sorting, and yes KR could be a bit more transparent with information where delays are caused, but it's not a game changer. I have ordered a Fell and have made 2 payments and feel quite sanguine so far.

Edited October 8, 2020 by rembrow
correction

[96701]

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

but at the supposed stage that KR are at with production underway they are not common at all.

 

 

Is no one allowed a different opinion ?

 

 

 

Heljan and Bachmann don't ask you to fund a model in advance.

 

 

 

 

I'm always surprised when someone who had a poor experience of crowdfunding, and had to rely on a credit card refund sticks their fingers in their ears and sings 'la la la nothings happening everythings wonderful'  and calls anyone with a different opinion a troll. Rather than doing that, try thinking for one minute that maybe someone is a little better informed than you are.  

 

Stand back and look for one minute at the progress of KR, several projects announced with deposits taken and in the case of GT3 fully funded and under way with a increasingly variable delivery date.   Of those other projects 1 wagon was announced with a fanfare and then promptly disappeared, a poor CAD was presented with many faults but the clincher was a lack of research which would have revealed a much bigger issue precluding production.

Last night another wagon was announced and within a short space of time an experienced modeller pointed out that the underframe was fantasy. That model is supposedly 'in tooling' with delivery slot for Q1 2021 and a fixed price.  The Chineses factories will certainly amend and update tooling but it all comes at a cost, that cost can be avoided with better research.

Dave, if you don't want a KR Model, fine. Go get a Hatton's 66.

[The Stationmaster]

8 hours ago, rembrow said:

It's not that unusual for faults to be discovered in models after manufacturing has started. There have been two that were reported here in the last month, Dapol's mogul has been held back after production, due to an error which requires correction, delaying by 5-6 weeks, so quite comparable with what might have happened here. Accurascale has also shown graphic photos of one of their newly produced bogie hopper wagons, in ARC livery, with bowed sides, which now needs the bodies replacing, delay by up to 2 months. Hornby has had several models in recent years, which reached the UK and distributed, before errors were found, Class 800s with bogie pivot problems, a Battle of Britain produced with the wrong type of tender, a Class 60 with the sector logo printed in the wrong place. Apologies if it makes you wince, but a certain GWR 0-6-0 tank engine with non existent splashers moulded on to the footplate. I also recall Bachmann having a nightmare with their production of the first run of Porthole coaches, where first some of the produced tools were rejected, leading to an 18 month delay and then when produced, the brake third, I think, was rejected on arrival in UK, due to a printing error. So these are my immediate recollections and it happens quite regularly. We don't know if there is a production issue that needs sorting, and yes KR could be a bit more transparent with information where delays are caused, but it's not a game changer. I have ordered a Fell and have made 2 payments and feel quite sanguine so far.

And from what you say in every single one of those cases - which were mainly after production was complete and in many instances after models had arrived in the UK the commissioner/manufacturer concerned told end customers what the problem was and what was happening to rectify it.  Not quite in the same category, I suggest, as 'something' has 'gone wrong' when a simple explanation of the problem would have done more for the commissioner's reputation as a communicator than the words 'gone wrong'.

 

As I said - getting into the commissioning business involves some steep learning curves and newcomers need to take care when trying to build a reputation.

 

PS I did mention the problems that can arise when dealing with CADs so I'm not wincing

[Roy Langridge]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And from what you say in every single one of those cases - which were mainly after production was complete and in many instances after models had arrived in the UK the commissioner/manufacturer concerned told end customers what the problem was and what was happening to rectify it. 

 

I am of the opposite opinion there, finally about to get my Dapol produced Rails Terrier which was delayed after "we have made some improvements to our outstanding Terrier models.". Never did we know what that was. Plenty of such examples have occurred. It has to be remembered that we often don't get any reason for the delays in some models, they just appear years late.

 

Delays are not always production based either: a ship can be missed, ships leave late and get consequential delays at all calling points enroute, containers booked found not to have room on the ship, containers get offloaded at the wrong port or just plain and simple "lost", customs can take an eternity...

Roy

[Colin_McLeod]

18 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

I'm always surprised when someone who had a poor experience of crowdfunding, and had to rely on a credit card refund sticks their fingers in their ears and sings 'la la la nothings happening everythings wonderful' 

 

How not to get on my Christmas card list.  LOL 

 

PS it was a debit card, not a credit card refund.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Colin_McLeod
Clarification for the "better informed".

[phil gollin]

.

 

God  -  this is tedious.

 

People re-fighting the DJModels fiasco with no evidence.

 

Just grow up.

 

.

[adb968008]

Barring any further delays, is there much that can be said about this model until it arrives ?

delays don't bother me, i’m more interested to see if the internal windows are right and how overall accuracy levels, though admittedly the EP I held looked and felt good & gave confidence on first glance.

Those baying for blood should consider, the same day I touched and felt the GT3 EP was the same day I saw EPs for the Class 25, 55, 86, GWRailcar, NER Railcar, MR1500, 3D print of the 16xx none them are here yet either.... I also saw painted EPs for the 63xx, 94xx, J27 they arent here either... the 59 painted EP was present in November 2018...and thats not here too.
 

I dont know if this is the case here, but generally speaking, Globally, there are more comissioners than there are Manufacturers of models.  US money often talks louder, so for most of the rest, without their own factories, they have to form an orderly queue in the event of delays...Christmas is coming i’d guess large volumes of easy to make, little to paint American trainsets would get priority over small volume niche runs of models that need 40-60 individual printing passes.

 

Covid definitely stopped industry wheels turning, and restarting isnt as simple as pressing “go”.. models are made from hundreds of bits, some insourced, some generic..those needing sourcing would also be subject to their delays and competing interests, for example many models use mobile phone parts and i’d guess Apple, Samsung etc would get priority.

 

weve seen a painted shell, but it is not beyond realm of possibility that Mercedes has got first dibs on GT3’s motor, as a supply for folding wing mirror motors ? Any event like this could be possible.  
i know some companies have considerably overstocked outsourced raw materials, to give hedge against a second shutdown to keep their own factories going in the future..again it eats capacity in the supply chain....

just look at raw metal prices... copper is through the roof since Chinas lockdown ended..

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/copper

 

 

the world has changed a little since then.... so a little slack wouldnt go a miss. Though admittedly knowing why the delay is what it is, may calm peoples thoughts, absence of it certainly brings out the worst in conspiracy theories.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I am of the opposite opinion there, finally about to get my Dapol produced Rails Terrier which was delayed after "we have made some improvements to our outstanding Terrier models.". Never did we know what that was. Plenty of such examples have occurred. It has to be remembered that we often don't get any reason for the delays in some models, they just appear years late.

 

Delays are not always production based either: a ship can be missed, ships leave late and get consequential delays at all calling points enroute, containers booked found not to have room on the ship, containers get offloaded at the wrong port or just plain and simple "lost", customs can take an eternity...

Roy

Quite agree about the umpteen reasons for delays and I referred to some of them in my post.  Equally I agree about models having to be given 'further treatment' to get them right although they are not always explained.  But here it's not until over a month later than the models were expected to leave the factory that was said was that something had 'gone wrong'.  What on earth is 'gone wrong' in plain English - does it mean the design was wrong (the EP worked); does it mean the assembly process went wrong for some reason - after it had apparently worked on the EP; does it mean a problem arose with components falling off (reported in respect of the EP; does it mean the original estimates of factory completion were hopelessly optimistic; does it mean the models were despatched and the container was was lost; or does it mean something totally different?

 

When you're a fledgling concern newly entering the marketplace communication and reputation are all because the only other thing you have to sell is dreams.  And dreams have to be kept alive until the reality of the model arrives to satisfy them and seal your reputation.  That is the situation KR are facing and the only way they can resolve it is to get the GT3s to customers  as quickly as possible and assembled and working to a high standard.  But in the interim they need to communicate and not just offer more dreams - the last person who tried that ended up failing dismally, and he was really good at selling dreams whatever else can be said about the way he managed, or at times  didn't manage, his business.

[KR Models]

30 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 What on earth is 'gone wrong' in plain English

With the model itself? So far, nothing, but we are waiting to see a post-production model to be delivered to us so that we can say they're ready for customers.

 

What is going wrong is that we are in month 7 of a global pandemic, and import/export is still a logistical nightmare. Getting supplies to the factory to be able to make the parts was an uphill battle when production started. 

21 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

several projects announced with deposits taken and in the case of GT3 fully funded and under way with a increasingly variable delivery date.  

1 product on the brink of delivery, and another still taking payments for. But sure, lets go with several.

 

21 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Of those other projects 1 wagon was announced with a fanfare and then promptly disappeared, a poor CAD was presented with many faults but the clincher was a lack of research which would have revealed a much bigger issue precluding production.

I'm assuming you are referring to the IQA flask wagon, which if memory serves me right, everyone got their money back. None of the customers who were invested lost anything, except the chance at an IQA flask wagon.

 

21 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Last night another wagon was announced and within a short space of time an experienced modeller pointed out that the underframe was fantasy. That model is supposedly 'in tooling' with delivery slot for Q1 2021 and a fixed price.  The Chineses factories will certainly amend and update tooling but it all comes at a cost, that cost can be avoided with better research.

Correct, in tooling, not at the end of tooling. Its a small wagon, tooling was never going to be as complex or take as long as a locomotive like the GT3 or the Fell. And yes, there are mistakes with the CAD, but we are human. Humans make mistakes, we all make mistakes, and we are still learning as we go from ours. You can't expect us to be flawless right out the gate, otherwise that would be more suspicious than getting things wrong as we go. (It would be to me atleast.)

 

21 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

try thinking for one minute that maybe someone is a little better informed than you are.  

And for once, maybe just think that you aren't as informed as you think you are, when you can only see a small piece of the picture.

Edited October 9, 2020 by KR Models
Expanding on a point

[The Stationmaster]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Barring any further delays, is there much that can be said about this model until it arrives ?

delays don't bother me, i’m more interested to see if the internal windows are right and how overall accuracy levels, though admittedly the EP I held looked and felt good & gave confidence on first glance.

Those baying for blood should consider, the same day I touched and felt the GT3 EP was the same day I saw EPs for the Class 25, 55, 86, GWRailcar, NER Railcar, MR1500, 3D print of the 16xx none them are here yet either.... I also saw painted EPs for the 63xx, 94xx, J27 they arent here either... the 59 painted EP was present in November 2018...and thats not here too.

the world has changed a little since then.... so a little slack wouldnt go a miss.

 

But how many of them said this on a very specific date (27 August in this case)?  When you make statements down to that level - and we've had them from others in the past - any subsequent problems have n been brought to our attention to explain why there might be a delay (for example Kernow posted an incorrect ship name on one occasion and once they found out it was wrong they corrected the details).  

 

But that didn't happen here - back to my comments about communication, bad news is as important as good news in that respect because it is at least news.   Different if nothing had been said, different if something so date specific hadn't been said but if you go down that detail road you need to follow through.

 

This is what KR said on 27 August -

 

The painting is done, the decals are just going on. Assembly is due to start next week this testing and packing to follow. We have a possible revised delivery date of mid-October.

 

 

 

[KR Models]

I should also add, if anyone wants to email me personally at any time of the day, you are always welcome to. I reply to every email that comes into my inbox, and I take every question and query seriously. research@krmodels.co.uk

 

I don't check RMWeb as much as I should, since both me and my father are always busy as all hell, and we would rather focus our time into more productive ventures as opposed to arguing and debating people on a web forum. So if you do ever have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to shoot me a message. 

[Ouroborus]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

 What on earth is 'gone wrong' in plain English - does it mean the design was wrong (the EP worked); does it mean the assembly process went wrong for some reason - after it had apparently worked on the EP; does it mean a problem arose with components falling off (reported in respect of the EP; does it mean the original estimates of factory completion were hopelessly optimistic; does it mean the models were despatched and the container was was lost; or does it mean something totally different?

 

 

The short answer to this is that none of us outside KRModels and their contractor are likely to know.

 

Regards the problems experienced by them I quote you Charlie Petty on the 142 thread "and this Covid stuff is throwing a wobbler in at the moment."

 

In a world where air pistols have sold out, plastic bags for horse manure carry a 4 month wait, if anyone can predict the future, a job for you in Whitehall awaits

 

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, KR Models said:

With the model itself? So far, nothing, but we are waiting to see a post-production model to be delivered to us so that we can say they're ready for customers.

 

What is going wrong is that we are in month 7 of a global pandemic, and import/export is still a logistical nightmare. Getting supplies to the factory to be able to make the parts was an uphill battle when production started. 

1 product on the brink of delivery, and another still taking payments for. But sure, lets go with several.

 

I'm assuming you are referring to the IQA flask wagon, which if memory serves me right, everyone got their money back. None of the customers who were invested lost anything, except the chance at an IQA flask wagon.

 

Correct, in tooling, not at the end of tooling. Its a small wagon, tooling was never going to be as complex or take as long as a locomotive like the GT3 or the Fell. And yes, there are mistakes with the CAD, but we are human. Humans make mistakes, we all make mistakes, and we are still learning as we go from ours. You can't expect us to be flawless right out the gate, otherwise that would be more suspicious than getting things wrong as we go. (It would be to me atleast.)

 

Thanks for the reply. 

 

It might surprise you to know that I actually want the GT3 to be a good model, I just think you should have concentrated on bringing that to market and waiting a short period of time to see that it actually performs without problems before embarking on what has become a wish list of other products.  

You state just 2 products but your website currently has 5 locomotives (some in both OO & N and 1 ex DJM)  either in production, being funded or as EOI.  There was a further "Industrial Locomotive" alluded to on Facebook although there is no 'official' announcement on the website. There are 2 current wagons on the website, the Shark (Ex DJM) and Consett (listed as 'Sold out") and in the recent past the IQA. 

I've only fleetingly glanced but the Fell looks a mish mash of different times in it's life rather than picking one point in time. The IQA should have had one vital piece of research done before even bothering with it and the Consett is poorly researched.  I do agree that it is human to make mistakes, but it is not an excuse as it is better to research throroughly from several sources beforehand, before presenting the product to the customer base.  In the case of the IQA you were confident enough to ask for payments up front but the reality was that you were not going to be in a position to offer it. Yes prospective customers were refunded but it could, and should have been avoided.

Coming to market with a researched and finished product is not only more professional it also avoids the factory re-working CAD, as the likelihood of past mistakes being carried forward increases. 

 

[adb968008]

eesh its like watching dating friends after they break up.

 

god help us when the model arrives.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

On 09/10/2020 at 11:01, KR Models said:

With the model itself? So far, nothing, but we are waiting to see a post-production model to be delivered to us so that we can say they're ready for customers.

 

What is going wrong is that we are in month 7 of a global pandemic, and import/export is still a logistical nightmare. Getting supplies to the factory to be able to make the parts was an uphill battle when production started. 

 

So thinking in terms of building reputation by good and open communication why not say exactly instead of saying 'gone wrong' (which can mean whatever anybody thinks they want it to mean)?

 

I realise you don't look in here regularly but however you do it there is always a need to communicate in a way which prevents things taking off or people like me asking what on earth is happening?  As I've said previously I hope for the sake of your continued business, if nothing else, that you deliver a spiffing model that performs beautifully once you're past all the hurdles because that - more than anything else - will cement your reputation of being able to deliver.

[Les1952]

On 10/10/2020 at 11:19, The Stationmaster said:

So thinking in terms of building reputation by good and open communication why not say exactly instead of saying 'gone wrong' (which can mean whatever anybody thinks they want it to mean)?

 

 

 

That assumes that when the problem is a holdup at the factory that factory actually tells its customer which of several reasons affecting all supplies to everyone is the one causing their holdup.  In the real world that just isn't happening at the moment.

 

Les

 

[Darius43]

On 09/10/2020 at 12:29, Ouroborus said:

In a world where air pistols have sold out, plastic bags for horse manure carry a 4 month wait, if anyone can predict the future, a job for you in Whitehall awaits

Given the penchant on this thread for people to tell other people how they should be running their business, despite most likely not being in possession of the facts, I would have thought this would make them fit right in with the current Whitehall crowd.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

PS as a self-employed person for the last 10 years I can tell you that I can’t get enough of people telling me how I should run my business.

[chris p bacon]

16 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

PS as a self-employed person for the last 10 years I can tell you that I can’t get enough of people telling me how I should run my business.

 

If we're going to play Top trumps over whether someone has enough experience to post on topics I'll raise you.

 

Self employed for 30+ years, owned own companies for 20+ years.  This gave me money to part fund as well as fully fund several products to come out of this and other Chinese factories, as well as other projects that didn't come to fruition. 

 

24 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

Given the penchant on this thread for people to tell other people how they should be running their business, despite most likely not being in possession of the facts

 

So given your opening statement, why do you think you have enough facts to comment on other posters.

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

That assumes that when the problem is a holdup at the factory that factory actually tells its customer which of several reasons affecting all supplies to everyone is the one causing their holdup.  In the real world that just isn't happening at the moment.

 

Les

 

Absolutely true. - and it can happen.  But equally if you have a project passing through a factory surely you are going to keep in touch with its progress - that is pretty basic when it comes to managing any business.  It then of course will depends on how forthcoming the factory happens to be but if they miss promised dates they will have to say something (although I do know that one Chinese factory spent as many months as it could saying nothing at all to its customer so the customer moved the work elsewhere in the end.

 

 

[Darius43]

When they discover the centre of the universe, some people will be disappointed they are not it.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

[Darius43]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

If we're going to play Top trumps over whether someone has enough experience to post on topics I'll raise you.

 

Self employed for 30+ years, owned own companies for 20+ years.  This gave me money to part fund as well as fully fund several products to come out of this and other Chinese factories, as well as other projects that didn't come to fruition.

 

That's wonderful, CJ.

 

Great.   Super.